Wandering Bike

[BigEagle]

Hey Guys,
Ever since I installed my 6 degree triple tree, my Valk wants to wander left and right.  I'm continually fighting the damn thing to just go straight.  At first I thought maybe the bearings might have to seat or something, so I rode it around for month and then retorqued the steering head bolt to 75lbs again, as per the instructions.  Now it's even worse than it was before!  Anybody have any ideas about what's causing this?

[Patrick]

With such an angle it might want to wonder a bit at low speeds but should be solid at high speeds.. Jack up , the front, attach a spring scale to one fork, see how much it takes to start the fork turning.. It should be 1.75-2.25 #.. Any less that that is a bit loose but won't hurt anything.. More than that and the bike will ' hunt ' , it'll be all over the road.. 75# sounds very high to me, but, I'd have to go look.. Then again, I don't use a torque wrench to set the pre-load..

[MP]

Did you extend your front forks at the same time?

It makes a big difference just how much you add.  When I added my raked trees for the sidecar, Darrell made me 2" extensions.  For the sidecar setup.  I took the car off, and rode the IS to Inzane last year.  It too wandered.  It also went into a tank slapper going hard into a corner!  I had to take corners a little easier after that.

He was at Inzane, and said I needed to use 1 1/2" extensions if I wanted to ride solo too.  Gave me a set.  Installed them, and all is well.  Wandering went away, and, at least until now, no more tank slappers.

Give him a call, and see what he says.  His ad appears at the top of the page.

MP

[DFragn]

Hey Guys,
Ever since I installed my 6 degree triple tree, my Valk wants to wander left and right.  I'm continually fighting the damn thing to just go straight.  At first I thought maybe the bearings might have to seat or something, so I rode it around for month and then retorqued the steering head bolt to 75lbs again, as per the instructions.  Now it's even worse than it was before!  Anybody have any ideas about what's causing this?

I know this is an aftermarket raked tree. Unless instructed differently by manufacturer follow these bearing seat and torque values.

Sounds like you torqued the Stem Nut above the top bridge! 76 #'s there is good. But ineffective to the bearings.

You need to to pull the top bridge to access the bearing lock nut, tabbed lock washer & finally the adjustment nut - see diagram.

Open upward 2 tabs just enough to spin the lock nut off, lift off tabbed lock washer, seat bearings at 65 #'s [trust me], work tree back & forth - release torque re-seat bearings again 3x, final torque 12 lbs.

The weight scale resistance on the forks can be inaccurate due to throttle cables, electrical lines & brake lines. I prefer pulling bars & top bridge to torque [check].

[Daniel Meyer]

Yep, classic bad or too tight head bearings. As stated above, the torque on the head bearings is NOT 75 pounds.

And the valk is very picky about it.

[mirion]

Same exact problem with my new 6 degree tree last year, wandered at any speed, constant corrections, I was thoroughly disgusted. Thought I had done everything right to spec. Rode up to Inzane and Glen jumped right on it. He adjusted the nut and it was a world of difference. My rider even noticed it. I now prefer the handling of the raked bike over my 2000 stock Interstate. Best I could tell I had it too tight. Glen kept loosening and retightening, I guess he has the feel for it. If you can’t get to Wisconsin, call him and he will surely help talk you through it. You can get there; don’t put the originals back on yet.

[Ricky-D]

At that torque figure I think your steering is being dampened to a point where you have lost the ability to where the bike can self correct for off balance, off center riding.

I remember the early days where steering dampeners were standard equipment on bikes.

Crank down on the dampener when on the highway and then when approaching in-town the bike became a projectile with the loss of easy steering (from the dampener turned tight) and had to loosen the dampener up crazy fast to get steering back and avoid the straight line holding characteristics of too tight a front end.

***

[mirion]

By the way, for anyone who hasn't seen the setup, it is a different bearing/spindle arrangement than stock, there is no bearing locknut and different rules apply.

[BigEagle]

Same exact problem with my new 6 degree tree last year, wandered at any speed, constant corrections, I was thoroughly disgusted. Thought I had done everything right to spec. Rode up to Inzane and Glen jumped right on it. He adjusted the nut and it was a world of difference. My rider even noticed it. I now prefer the handling of the raked bike over my 2000 stock Interstate. Best I could tell I had it too tight. Glen kept loosening and retightening, I guess he has the feel for it. If you can’t get to Wisconsin, call him and he will surely help talk you through it. You can get there; don’t put the originals back on yet.

Mirion,
When you say Glen adjusted the nut, are you referring to the steering head bolt that goes up from the bottom?  I'm hoping so 'cause that'd be an easy fix.  I'm NOT looking forward to taking it all apart again.

[Black Dog]

Hey BigEagle,

I just spoke with Daryl (of XF6), and told him of your issue...  You can't use Honda spec's when installing an after market part!

When Mirion says 'Glen' tinkered with the tree/torque, he means 'Daryl', as I was there and watched the whole process.

'If' your triple tree is an XF6/VTXtreme product, you have WAY overtightened the steering head bolt!  Per instructions, the steering head torque is 15ft/lbs, not 75 ft/lbs (that is per the honda manual, and not correct for even the Honda tree, and way too tight for the aftermarket tree)...  That would explain the wandering you are experiencing.  After torquing to 75 ft/lbs, there is a good possibility you have ruined the bearings and/or the race...  Daryl said to try @15 ft/lbs, and see how it feels...  If all else fails, give him a call (he is a one man show) at 414-517-9546, and let him educate you...

Black Dog

[GJS]

Hi BigEagle,

I too have the 6 degree kit. I have 1"3/8 extensions.
I had a wildly wandering front end when I first drove my bike after a rebuild.
After putting on about 200 miles the first day of a three week trip, I was very concerned about some erratic behaviour in my front end. I'm very embarrassed to say that I had neglected to tighten/torque the two pinch bolts marked #10 in the diagram above. Once these were pinched tight, my problems disappeared and I have since logged about 10K with no weirdness!

Good luck.

Glenn

[DFragn]

I just spoke with Daryl (of XF6), and told him of your issue...  You can't use Honda spec's when installing an after market part!

That's why I put the clause in the first sentence. I suspected so...but also good to know for others with OEM Trees so as not to be confused.



not 75 ft/lbs (that is per the honda manual, and not correct for even the Honda tree,
Not very concise...See Manual Page 13-38! I have never had an issue with the designated 76 lbs./ft. on the OEM Tree
Even my reputable Service Department adheres to the 76#'s and the 65# to seat the bearings, of which the manual says to use 30#'s


Black Dog

[Black Dog]

not 75 ft/lbs (that is per the honda manual, and not correct for even the Honda tree.

Not very concise...See Manual Page 13-38! I have never had an issue with the designated 76 lbs./ft. on the OEM Tree

Defragn...

Was not questioning your advice.  Sorry if you took it that way  ???

With an XF6/VTXtreme tree, there is only a bolt that comes up through the bottom tree, and seats in the top tree...  The top tree is smooth on top, and does not use the lock washer, and the lock nut, as the OEM tree does.

Even if you look in the Manual, the spec for the 'bearing adjustment nut' is 12 lbf-ft (page 13-40), after being torqued to 30 lbf-ft (page 13-39), to seat the bearings.  The 'steering stem nut', that holds everything together, is torqued to 74 - 76 lbf-ft (page 13-41)...  The 'bearing adjustment nut', is pretty much the same as the final torque of 15 lbf-ft called for on the XF6 tree.

Not trying to make trouble...  Too many folks that really know their stuff here    Just want to be sure we are talking apples & apples...

Black Dog

[DFragn]

not 75 ft/lbs (that is per the honda manual, and not correct for even the Honda tree.

Not very concise...See Manual Page 13-38! I have never had an issue with the designated 76 lbs./ft. on the OEM Tree

Defragn...

Was not questioning your advice.  Sorry if you took it that way  ???

With an XF6/VTXtreme tree, there is only a bolt that comes up through the bottom tree, and seats in the top tree...  The top tree is smooth on top, and does not use the lock washer, and the lock nut, as the OEM tree does.

Even if you look in the Manual, the spec for the 'bearing adjustment nut' is 12 lbf-ft (page 13-40), after being torqued to 30 lbf-ft (page 13-39), to seat the bearings.  The 'steering stem nut', that holds everything together, is torqued to 74 - 76 lbf-ft (page 13-41)...  The 'bearing adjustment nut', is pretty much the same as the final torque of 15 lbf-ft called for on the XF6 tree.

Not trying to make trouble...  Too many folks that really know their stuff here    Just want to be sure we are talking apples & apples...

Black Dog

Gotcha, thanks, I wasn't clear on your OEM steering stem nut statement.

[BigEagle]

This is a typical bone head move on my part.  Having fryed too many brain cells as a young punk on acid, PCP, whites, reds, pink ladies and anything else that came my way... I'm always doing $#!+ like this.  Okay, so I'll back it off to 15lbs tomorrow before I go riding.  I'll post the results after I get home from work.  Mucho tanks to everybody.  Wish me luck.

[BigEagle]

Backed'er off to 15lbs and I'm happy to say all is well. Between that and the new shock bushings, she's once again the bike I love the most. Thanks guys!

[X Ring]

I'm glad you were able to fix your Valk.  Isn't this club great?  If I didn't say it already, welcome to the club and the insanity!

Marty