Yet another "piggy cutting" question

[Walküre]

I've searched and read for almost an hour, and can't find the answers I need.

I got a set of IS rear pipes OOOPS, TIPS!! for my standard. I knew that they wouldn't bolt in without doing a little work on the piggies. They DO get really, really close, lacking about 1" of going on, with untouched standard/tourer piggies. The problem is that the standards are in a vertical row, while the IS are horizontal. The standards are substantially shorter, so that they really don't hit, until that last 1", I mentioned.

I'm not sure if I want to hack the pigs off. I've heard it BOTH ways - that the sound is no louder, just deeper, but also that there's a "drone" that can be annoying at highway speeds. I don't think I could live with the drone - almost all my driving IS at highway speeds.



I'm thinking just cutting the top and bottom pigs just enough to clear, maybe even a "slash" cut, which would be about an inch. That should preserve just about all of the stock sound.

An alternative, would be take a torch to the top and bottom ones, get them red-hot, and bend them slightly, closely resembling the horizontal attitude of the IS ones.

Here's a picture on MarkT's Horseapple site, showing the difference between the two:



Another alternative is to see if MarkT has any of his "piggy-plates", for the IS, and weld them in. That would give me stock IS pipes, for all practical purposes, and also give me the third mounting screw as an added bonus.

Or, just bite the bullet, cut the piggies, leaving an inch or so, so I can reverse it, if I don't like it. Some do, some don't. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone around, that has an IS with them cut, to hear how they sound.

Any suggestions, recommendations, etc?

TIA,

R

[sugerbear]

when i cut mine, with a half helmet not much drone.  with a full helmet lotza drone.

wife didn't like it either way,,,,,,,,,,,sooooo, back on they went

if you want to know, cut off (leaving 1 in or so like you said)

but some matching hard copper tube w/coupler. put them on and bend to your liking.

make them any shape/length you want. the coupler will put the originals back on.

my advice and worth every penny you paid for it

[Willow]

If you prefer the sound of them as they are I would advise first attempting to bend the top and bottom leaving the lengths intact.

[Gear Jammer]

Mine were cut and drilled when I got it.  Drone was bad with any helmet.  Sounded like a very large pissed -off hornet   

[ricoman]

Sugarbear has a good idea-cut 'em off and reshape with the tubing and couplers.
Too bad the IS pipes did not come with IS tips, or you wouldn't have any problem.

[YoungPUP]

Couldnt you cut the piggies to standard length and then use a replacement truck tip? (not the full truck stack mod just the tip) that way it should(?) keep it stock sounding with your flavor of tip for looks?  Maybe i'm talking out my excrement orifice, but an idea none the less...Let us know what you decide

[Jess from VA]

Just leave the pigs alone and install 18" Air Flow truck stacks on the pipes.  They're not too expensive and are far superior to the OE tips.   One IS is box stock and quiet, the other has the pigs entirely removed.  They are both louder and more rumbly.  I do not really get a drone, but I can hear them more than the others, but at highway speeds the sound is mostly behind you.  Course, I always have my music on.  

http://www.airflo.com/valkyrie.html

http://store.airflo.com/af40-418hs.html

[Walküre]

Wow, talk about a game of Telephone...

I like the looks of the Interstate tips. I have a Standard, dressed up to look like a Tourer. So, I have Tourer pipes. They are in good shape, I just don't like the looks of the Standard/Tourer tips, at all. Nor do I like the truck stack look, although I have seen some that look good with Grumpy's tips on the them. But, the Interstate tips look the best to me- right length, right shape. So, when offered a set, I jumped on them. I was aware that the piggies would cause a little concern, and one person had written that they were a BIG concern. Not the case, they aren't off by that much. I'm really not sure if the added length of the IS piggies, would change the sound even more. I like quiet. The quieter, the better. I don't feel the need to yell at people, all the time - just when they do something stupid. That's why I have a Stebel horn - I can selectively yell...   

If you prefer the sound of them as they are I would advise first attempting to bend the top and bottom leaving the lengths intact.

Turned out to be the best advice. Grabbed a piece of 1/2" round stock, 4' long, slid it into the top and bottom piggy's, and bent them JUST enough, to clear the tips. Tips slid right on. I haven't started the ol' girl up yet - she's still on the lift table, at full height. Going back over to the shop shortly, and giving it a test.

I'm still curious how different the IS piggies would sound, over the standard, with the IS tip. I'm sure it would have to be a little different, how much, I don't know. I may grab some of my copper pipe, and extend them just to see. Or, if I like them as they are, I'll just leave them. Of course, in this "perfectionist" mind I have, I really should get MarkT's Piggy Plates for IS, and install them. Sometimes I HATE the way I think...   

Thanks all,

R

[ricoman]

I'm beginning to finally understand. Your initial post said "IS pipes" when I think you meant "tips". The IS tips do look better, little bit longer makes a nice dif.
Hope what you did will solve your problem and keep the noise level where you want it.

[Walküre]

I'm beginning to finally understand. Your initial post said "IS pipes" when I think you meant "tips". The IS tips do look better, little bit longer makes a nice dif.
Hope what you did will solve your problem and keep the noise level where you want it.

I see that now - didn't last night, even though I ALWAYS read my posts through a 2nd time, before posting, just to catch stuff like that. And I even read it again, before posting my last post! Sorry for the confusion. A lot of it is because I know what I MEANT to say, so read it like that, even though it didn't say what I meant.

I'll correct it, to avoid any more confusion...

 

[Sodbuster]

If you only need to cut off an inch off the "Standard" piggies to make the Interstate tips fit I can't imagine there would be much sound difference.  The Interstate "Tips" are quieter and muffle the sound more than the Standard "Tips" .... I know because I put them on my Standard.  BUT, I did cut the piggies and drilled the rear baffles with 3/8" drill and really like the way it sounds so to each his own I guess.

And, like others have said if you don't like the results 3/4" copper pipe couplers will fit perfect to put it back the way it was.

I guess if it were me I would cut the piggies just beyond the tapped holes, add the couplers and put 3"-4" long straight pieces of copper pipe on.

[Walküre]

If you only need to cut off an inch or two off the "Standard" piggies to make the Interstate tips fit I can't imagine there would be much sound difference.  The Interstate "Tips" are quieter and muffle the sound more than the Standard "Tips" .... I know because I put them on my Standard.  BUT, I did cut the piggies and drilled the rear baffles with 3/8" drill and really like the way it sounds so to each his own I guess.

And, like others have said if you don't like the results 3/4" copper pipe couplers will fit perfect to put it back the way it was.

SB - do you get any "drone"? How much louder are they - lot's or little? And do you wear a helmet, or no helmet, and what kind, if you do?

All these things seem to make up what the sound level/quality is. My standard tips on standard pigs, would drone at a few certain particular speeds. I avoid those speeds. Sets up some kind of resonance reaction, to everything I use. It doesn't seem to do it, on my 3/4 helmet, but does on BOTH modulars! The wife has only been on back once, so she never noticed it - she was just hanging on, and wishing SHE was on the handlebars...

R

[Sodbuster]

I can't say it has what I would call a drone .... like I said I only drilled out with 3/8" drill and NOT 1/2" like most folks are doing. I wear a half helmet and so does the wife. At highway speeds it's loud enough that I can hear the exhaust with out having to watch the tach .... It's about on par with the wind noise. Everyone is going to have a different tolerance level of sound/noise but for me I like it just the way I have it !!  If I wanted a quiet bike I would have bought a Goldwing 

[BF]

I can't prove it, but IMHO, the piggies are what prevents the drone in the first place....and I believe that mother Honda put them on for that sole purpose.....to eliminate the drone.  The longer the piggie, the more it prevents the drone.  

Before I modded my stock pipes, I road it with a couple different helmets....half, full, etc.  No drone.  

Then I started to mod my pipes starting first with the a piggie-ectomy.  Rode around like that for awhile with a half helmet and didn't notice any drone.  Then on a cold day, rode with a full helmet.....and there was the drone.  My first thought was.....WTH have I done!    

I ride 99% of the time with a half helmet, so it hasn't really been an issue with me so far...and the wife hadn't complained, so I wasn't too concerned.  

Since then, I've gradually gone all the way up to the Ragnar cut (front baffles are still untouched).  The pipes got louder, but the drone never changed pitch....it's just there and won't go away and is VERY noticable when wearing a full (or 3/4) helmet.  

Even with the pipes the way they are now, I don't notice it with a half helmet.....but boy, with a full helmet it's horrible.  

I did buy a set of Mark-T's Interstate piggie plates to install whenever I get around to it.  When I do install them, I've got a set of Airflow extensions with a set of Grumpy's tips that I'm going to put on the bike.  The plan is to leave the gutted (Ragnar cut) pipes the way they are and just install the Interstate piggies and see how that effects it.  I'm hoping to see if re-installing the I/S piggies alone will reduce or eliminate the drone.  

I like the loudness and sound I get from my pipes, I just can't stand the drone when wearing certain helmets.  

Whenever I do get around to doing this mod, I'll do a little write-up on it to let everyone know how it goes.  


btw Walküre.......your avatar weird's me out.   ???

[Walküre]

If I wanted a quiet bike I would have bought a Goldwing 

If I wanted a noisy bike, I would have bought a Harley... 

[Walküre]

I did buy a set of Mark-T's Interstate piggie plates to install whenever I get around to it.

Yeah, I've got an email in to Mark - hopefully he has a set of IS piggy plates, and I'll be doing it also. Pretty much decided, I think you're right -the further I get the exhaust back, the better I'll be.

Whenever I do get around to doing this mod, I'll do a little write-up on it to let everyone know how it goes.

 

Cool! I'll be looking for it.

btw Walküre.......your avatar weird's me out.   ???

You ought to see how he's treated by the OTHER dogs!!

 

[John U.]

I can't prove it, but IMHO, the piggies are what prevents the drone in the first place....and I believe that mother Honda put them on for that sole purpose.....to eliminate the drone.  The longer the piggie, the more it prevents the drone.  

btw Walküre.......your avatar weird's me out.   ???

I agree with you BF, except I think the piggies only have to be long enough to get to the ends of the exhaust tips. I think if the longer I/S tips are used with Standard/Tourer pipes (and their shorter piggies) the result will be drone. Though it probably won't be as bad as if the piggies are cut off entirely. I think the drone is resonance created in the exhaust tips when the exhaust (and it's noise) isn't carried far enough to the end of the tips. I'd be interested in how this works out.
I have to agree about Walkure's avatar also. 

[BF]

Interesting John....I hadn't thought of it that way.  I'd think that if that theory is correct, that one could take their tips off and take a ride and see if the drone goes away.........ummmm. 

I might just have to go for a ride.  I'll be off later this week.....might have to try it and see. 

[Walküre]

Okey-dokey!! I've now put my tips on, and rode 50 miles.

As I said, I still have the standard piggies, but bent just enough to get the tips on. They stop between 4 and 6 inches back from the end of the tips. The Interstate pics I've seen seem to show the Interstate piggies going just shy of the end. I also was a little concerned that the "dead air" space from the standard piggies to the end, would possibly cause more resonance and drone.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I had a few speeds that I'd get what I'd call a "drone" with the stock set up - a sympathetic vibration of air, that would cause that loud "hum" in the helmet. I avoided going those speeds, when it happened - it was pretty tight, maybe just a few mph off the speed, and it would go away. I was listening for that, when I rode it with the new tips.

No drone at all. In fact, a very marked decrease in ANY noise - normally I'd hear the exhaust over the wind in the helmet. Now, I hear the wind, and unless I grab throttle, I don't hear the exhaust at all. Maybe it's MY helmet, and I'll try the others eventually, but the difference was day and night - OK, like a goldwing. But, that's how I like it - the silent sleeper...

I'm going to get a set of Mark's Piggy Plates, for the Interstate, and although I doubt if it's possible, it might drop the noise level even more!

I'm not a sound engineer, but I have to wonder if it's a combination of things - the fact that the exhaust is now directed out behind the saddlebags, instead of coming out under them, being ~4" longer, or the space between the piggies and the outlet of the exhaust, or maybe even just the tip shape. Regardless, I'm happy so far. I hope the swap to the IS piggies doesn't screw that up. Or I'll be cutting them off to the Standard length.

Thanks, all...

R

[Sodbuster]

Glad it's working out for ya .... interesting outcome

Sorry 'bout the GoldWing comment .... didn't mean for it to be offensive

[Walküre]

Glad it's working out for ya .... interesting outcome

Yeah, surprised me a bit. You said the IS tips would be quieter - I wasn't expecting it quite as quiet as it turned out. I'm happy with them, but still going to get the piggy plates, just 'cuz...

Sorry 'bout the GoldWing comment .... didn't mean for it to be offensive

?? I hope you didn't think I was offended? I've owned a half-dozen of them - spent a LOT of money, keeping the earliest ones quiet. Everyone's opinion is different - my opinion is that there is NOthing like "muffled horsepower"...

R

[BF]

John U has me curious now.  I'm still gonna take my tips off later this week, put on the full face and go for a ride to see if that does anything for the drone.  I'm thinkin' not, but who knows.  I'll let ya know.