How can I fix a broken pinch bolt?

[Raverez]

Seem to have over torqued the in board pinch bolt on the left fork yesterday.
Broke about half way. Can I drill it out from the other side? Is there a kit I can buy to remover the half that's in the fork?

Thanks
Raul

[TomE]

If the bolt snapped cleanly, it might, just might, be sitting there in the threads, loose and just waiting for someone to turn it enough to back it out.  That's the sort of situation where an  easy-out might work. The tricky part is getting the drilled hole centered.

Start with a center punch, then a 1/32 bit, and increase the bit size in small increments. Stop if the hole gets close to the walls and threads.

Then try the EZ out.

But. EZ outs can break in there, and if they do, they are hardened steel and a real bugger to get out.

Like the others say, if you have not done this before, you might want to practice on a bolt in your vice. Or go find a machine shop.

[Raverez]

yep.  I'm learning as I go on how to "fix" things.  My neighbor is a mechanic for a snowplow and trailer place here in town. He said he'll help.

[Ferris Leets]

I've done this a few times.  Skip the center punch if the bolt is below the surface.  Get a drill that is as close to the diameter of the hole and use that to start the hole in the bolt.  Only drill enough to get a center punch like cavity.  Then switch to a drill smaller than the the bolt.  If you can find a left hand twist drill most stuck screws will back out as you drill through.  Also heat the fork and use oil.  You only need to heat it so that you can't hold your hand on it, don't want it too hot.  This spring while changeing out my front tire I found the the PO had overtightened and stripped the heads on 2 of those 4 bolts.  Replaced with stainless and blue loktite.

[Ricky-D]

The places where Locktite is needed on the Valkyrie are very few.

Locktite will cause many broken bolts.

A good antiseize is what is really needed when having to remove and replace bolts and screws.

A broken bolt or screw should make a convert every time.

***

[Ferris Leets]

The blue loktite is medium strength.  It also keeps the bolts from getting stuck with the elctrolytic corrosion between the steel and aluminum.  Anti seize is good but the loktite keeps the bolt in and tight.  The loktite is not neccessary but it helps.  Also those bolts should be torqued correctly.  They are pretty important.

[Raverez]

So are the bolts aluminium and the fork steel? Would it make sense to replace with steel bolts?

[PhredValk]

If I'm not mistaken, the tree is aluminum and the bolts are steel. That's what it looked like when I removed mine to do the fork seals, and it's in line with most parts on Honda bikes.
Fred.

[art]

I,ve been a machinist for many years an Ferris Leets has it right .Do as he says or bring it to a machine shop.

[Ferris Leets]

Thanks Art.

The bolts are steel the forks are aluminum.  Steel bolts in aluminum will virtually weld together sometimes.   

[Raverez]

Also heat the fork and use oil.  You only need to heat it so that you can't hold your hand on it, don't want it too hot.

So do I use a propane torch? Will it leave burn marks on the fork? What kind of oil?  3 in 1?

Can I ride it like that? The other pinch bolt is fine and I think it split before the gap on the bottom of the fork.

[DFragn]

So do I use a propane torch? Will it leave burn marks on the fork? What kind of oil?  3 in 1?

1) penetrating oil
2) Yes, it'll leave a mark with either propane or heat gun. The forks and triple tree are clear coated.
    Safer to use a heat gun gradually.

Can I ride it like that? The other pinch bolt is fine and I think it split before the gap on the bottom of the fork.

Maybe, but it's one thing to ride it like that until you discover it.
It's another thing to knowingly ride it as it is.
Get it fixed...
Try a Honda Dealer or any good Metric MC Dealers Service Department. Shouldn't be more than $100.00

[Ferris Leets]

You only need to heat the back half.  That is where the threads are.  The clear coat on mine is long gone anyway so I used a propane torch.  Did not leave any signs.  Penetrating oil like kroil or similar.  Heat till you can't hold it, oil, let it cool, heat again, oil and then start trying to remove it.  If it starts to look like it is not going to work STOP get a professional.  You will be very sorry if you ruin that lower leg.
       Me, I would only ride it to the repair shop.  Those bolts are important. 

[bart]

  i have used a left hand drill bit with good results, if it wont  come out while drilling you still have the hole for the e-z out.
good luck.

[Raverez]

So

Apply heat

Squirt penetrating oil          would PB Blaster work?

drill with left hand bit          any paticular size?

buy new bolts.

use torque wrench.

Did I forget anything?

Thanks,  Raul

[DFragn]

So

Apply heat

Squirt penetrating oil          would PB Blaster work?

drill with left hand bit          any paticular size?

buy new bolts.

use torque wrench.

Did I forget anything?

Thanks,  Raul

Your finally causing me to fear for you Raul.
Why don't you have it done and save the cost of replacing the lower leg.

[Paxton]

This is the right fork tube, but it may be worth keepin' in your parts pile.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-RIGHT-FORK-TUBE-/200579744082?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eb37c0152

[Madmike]

If you are still dealing with this....

As you stated that you broke this bolt off by overtorquing it, it is quite possible that you can back out the remaining piece quite easily as it wasn't seized in the threads.  Take a light and look in the slot that is meant to pinch the axle - Can you see the shank of the bolt in there?  If so is the slot wide enough to get something in and work the bolt out of the threads (hacksaw blade may work).  If not you may be able to reach into the hole with an awl or seal pick and use that to turn the shank.  If you decide to drill you can use a left hand bit from the head side and depending how much shank is left you may not get near the threaded portion of the hole.  You can use a right hand bit from the threaded end and it will try to turn the remnant out as you drill the challenge here will be to drill straight down teh middle of the bolt so that you don't hit the threads. 

I have been doing this type work for a long time and drilling from the threaded end would be my last option.

Good Luck.

[Raverez]

Thanks to all the responses. I thinks me is #$%@ed if I try it. But a little pig headed cause I will anyway. I  kinda like the challenge.

Hope I get this right. 
Thanks for all the input.

Raul

[rodeo1]

OMG !!

[donaldcc]

OMG !!

Just take it in to the shop, pay the $$, and get it fixed so you can ride.

[TomE]

As long as you know the risk, and have some level of confidence, go for it. The worst that might happen is that someone needs to fix the threads for you later. It's not rocket science, it's just a stuck bolt, after all.

Everyone needs to learn sometime!

But... There is a trick to drilling out the center of a bolt, as opposed to going out through the side, or being widely off-center. This is particularly important if the end you are drilling on is not flat, for instance, if it was snapped off!  If you have never done this before, a practice bolt in the vice might save you a lot of grief.

[DFragn]

This is the right fork tube, but it may be worth keepin' in your parts pile.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-RIGHT-FORK-TUBE-/200579744082?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eb37c0152

Why would you suggest a damaged fork for his parts bin?
That lower leg is bent and the upper tube is probably damaged too. That's why it's $30.00.
Look at the front end damage pics...

[Ricky-D]

You can take the broken part of the bolt and make it be a pilot for the drill bit.

A drill press is absolutely necessary. To try this freehand is folly.

It's a lot easier using a pilot to drill the broken part accurately than to try to spot the drill bit down in a hole where you can't see what you're doing.

***

[Ferris Leets]

That is why I suggested using a bit slightly smaller than the thread diameter.  It will line up with the center of the bolt and give you a "center punch " point to start drilling with the left hand drill.
  Size of drill- I would use something around a 1/4" for the left hand drill.  As stated before if the drill does not just pull it out (which in my experience is what will happen).  Then you have a good hole for the EZout.  I have never had any good results with them.  I have had good results with taking a GOOD tap of the proper size to grab the hole and grinding the cutting flutes off, tapering it to a fairly long point, tapping it in and gently turning the bolt out.  By correct size I mean drilling with an #7 drill and then using a 1/4-20 tap.  Give a good grip without expanding the bolt and making it grip tighter.  All of the other advice still holds -heat, oil, heat.  This is all based on the worst case scenario.  when mine was stuck/stripped It took heat, oil and valve grinding compound in the hex head.  Screwed out hard but it came out.

[TomE]

You can take the broken part of the bolt and make it be a pilot for the drill bit.

That's a good idea. My work was done freehand, and it worked well enough, but a guide would greatly reduce the risk and the necessary skill level. I might try that someday myself.

[RonW]

You can take the broken part of the bolt and make it be a pilot for the drill bit.....It's a lot easier using a pilot to drill the broken part accurately than to try to spot the drill bit down in a hole where you can't see what you're doing.

A wooden dowel or a wood plug will work too as a drilling guide. Naturally, center punch a divot in the dowel to prevent the drill tip from wandering off the bullseye, or use the drill bit or ice pick or a nail as a makeshift center punch. If required, chuck the wooden dowel in an electric drill and spin-sand to fine tune the diameter. For a larger diameter drill bit (drill-out method), providing that you're able to find the right diameter (or shim around the circumference), use a brass tube or copper tube to serve as a template. There is such a thing as a 'vix bit' (non-metric) that self-centers itself however its drill bit is meant for wood not metal nevertheless the bit is replaceable with a metal bit I believe. The above from carpentry work, didn't invent them myself.

In my own esteemed opinion, this situation shouldn't have happened to begin with by using a torque wrench. The 16 ft-lbs torque value for the fork pinch bolts is only about a full turn from hand tighten if that at all.

[Raverez]

Well here's how it went. 

I had a torque wrench.   Tightened the first one, no prob.  As I was tightening the second one, I noticed it seemed to be turning more than the first one. Just as
I thought about it....snap!

[TomE]

Well here's how it went. 

I had a torque wrench.   Tightened the first one, no prob.  As I was tightening the second one, I noticed it seemed to be turning more than the first one. Just as
I thought about it....snap!

The good news is that at 16 ft lbs, it may not have distorted the remaining parts of the bolt or threads. That's promising.

I have to ask, though, were you reading from the ft lbs scale or the N/M scale? I did that once and regretted it.

[9Ball]

Well here's how it went. 

I had a torque wrench.   Tightened the first one, no prob.  As I was tightening the second one, I noticed it seemed to be turning more than the first one. Just as
I thought about it....snap!

The good news is that at 16 ft lbs, it may not have distorted the remaining parts of the bolt or threads. That's promising.

I have to ask, though, were you reading from the ft lbs scale or the N/M scale? I did that once and regretted it.

that would be a conservative error and not likely to contribute to the failure...16 Nm is about 12 lbf-ft

[Raverez]

ft-lbs.  Picked up a bolt extractor. I' ll try over the weekend .   seems like I can pull it from the rear of the fork since it's threaded all the way though. any thoughts on that?

thanks

[Paxton]

DFragn; You are correct.  
At first I thought it was a camera-lens distortion. Now I went back (this time w/my glasses on) and saw what you see.

"You believe what your eyes want to believe!"
— Santosh Kalwar

[DFragn]

DFragn; You are correct. 
At first I thought it was a camera-lens distortion. Now I went back (this time w/my glasses on) and saw what you see.

"You believe what your eyes want to believe!"
— Santosh Kalwar

Paxton, I would never of noticed myself prior to cataract surgery last Spring. 

[TomE]

ft-lbs.  Picked up a bolt extractor. I' ll try over the weekend .   seems like I can pull it from the rear of the fork since it's threaded all the way though. any thoughts on that?

thanks

Might work. Whatever is easiest to get the drill to. That left hand drill trick works sometimes, too.

[RonW]

Well here's how it went.  
I had a torque wrench.   Tightened the first one, no prob.  As I was tightening the second one, I noticed it seemed to be turning more than the first one. Just as
I thought about it....snap!

By what I read up to this point I thought that you didn't use a torque wrench. I've been working on my front end for the past four days and I've untighten and tighten the pinch bolts each day. It's seems almost impossible to broke the pinch bolt with 16 ft-lbs. Your bolt probably had a stress fracture from the previous owner or something really odd is happening here.


What's all the fuss about the fork tube being bent when all that's needed is the axle holder. The link is for the right fork, but from the Pinwall pics, the left fork is a mirror image insofar as the damage. It'll be cheaper to ship just the axle holder too. The whole fork ships for $18.

[9Ball]

ft-lbs. 

actually it's more like pound-force per foot (lbf-ft) but ft-lbs is common usage.

[Brian]

Are we going to hear back on how you got the bolt out?

[Raverez]

Are we going to hear back on how you got the bolt out?

Yep.  Can't say I'm good but just lucky.

First went to True Value and bought this


then this happened

I broke it. Thought  I was done. Started looking for another fork.   Too expensive.
So went to my local Auto Zone and they suggested this,

Said all I had to do was drill it into bolt( not quite).
 After about 10 minutes of trying both ends of bolt, I checked through the previous responses here
then tried drilling a pilot hole for the extractor.
And "tada"!!!

Here's the extracted bolt,

Replaced the four pinch bolts with these( Also from True Value)

Like I said, Got lucky and didn't make it worse.
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND SUGGESTIONS.
Raul

[Raverez]

BTW drilled from rear of the fork since the hole is threaded straight through the fork.  Once the extractor gripped the bolt, I kept turning until it came out the front of the fork.     

[RonW]

Bravo. I don't drill entirely through a broken bolt. But the way you done it, it's more like extracting a sleeve which is easier.