Another brake pad question

[Fudd]

I just inspected my front brakes.  The right outside pad is somewhat more worn than the other 3 pads.  Should I just "rotate" them?  I see no defects or ruffness in the rotor to account for the uneven wear.  Three of the four are in good enough shape for me not to just want to change them all out.  I'll be hitting the metal on one before the others are at 50%.

[PhredValk]

Either way, use brake cleaner liberally on the rotors. My right outer pad went soft after fork oil dripped on the rotor over the winter. The brakes hissed when applied, but not now after changing pads and cleaning the crap off my rotors.
Fred.

[Bobbo]

Wear on the piston side pad usually means the caliper is not sliding on the pins well.  I'd remove that caliper, then clean and lube the pins, making sure the caliper moves freely on them.

[Gryphon Rider]

I agree with Bobbo.

I would not rotate the pads because the other pads are already properly bedded to the rotors, but assuming servicing the pins solves the problem, if that pad wears out well before the others, I would replace it with the least worn pad from my collection of used pads (all 4 pads never wear at exactly the same rate so I keep the good ones "just in case") until the other pads get close to needing replacing, then get 4 new ones.

[vanagon40]

. . . . all 4 pads never wear at exactly the same rate . . . .

Dude, sometime they get close.  This was the OEM pads after 20,000 miles.

[paulobear]

I'm a new Valk owner ('99 GL1500CF I/S) and I noticed that my back brake reservoir was getting low, and the right front rotor had a black film on it. I pulled the back brakes and saw that they had what looked like several thousand miles left on them, so I just filled the reservoir up, and pumped the brake a few times and all seems fine there.

However, I've noticed that the front brakes don't really stop like I think they should. The brakes seem a little soft; I really have to give the handle a pull for effective braking. I know this bike is about 2x the weight of the Magna, but it also has two rotors vs one on the Magna. I suspected the black film from the very beginning, and so I pulled the caliper off and cleaned the rotor with some brake cleaner, and I cleaned up the caliber some as well. The rag was very black after the cleaning, so that's not a good sign. I didn't see anything that looked like a leak, but there was some grunge on the fork, so maybe this is all left over from an old fork leak.

I took the bike out for a test ride, and didn't really feel any difference - it still isn't stopping like I expect. The black goo hasn't come back, but I did notice the the left rotor was pretty warm - almost stung my fingers, as opposed to the right rotor, which was warm, but not real warm. That tells me that the left caliper is doing all the work. I suppose it could even be stuck closed a bit, but I don't notice the bike dragging when coasting.

I suspect that the pads need replacing on the right. I think that whatever that film was, it got into the pads. I'll bleed the system as well when I replace the pads. But I wanted to get the forum's wisdom on any other things I should be looking for?

Thanks,

PaulOBear
'99 GL1500CF ValksWagen
'97 VF750CD Magna 'Tude

[Earl in Pensacola]

Along with the cleaning and pin lube and fluid flushing, I would suspect "sticking caliper pistons" .  Some times a good cleaning there will do wonders also.

[Ricky-D]

In my experience I have found that just about everything burns off the pads over a period of time and the pads return to their normal stop capability.

I mean just about everything!

Oil, WD-40, you name it!

***

[04strider]

I usually rotate the pads on the front calipers every 12-15k miles or so.  The piston side typically wears faster than the outboard pads, and by swapping left and right sides, you can almost double the pad life.   

[Cruzen]

I'm a new Valk owner ('99 GL1500CF I/S) and I noticed that my back brake reservoir was getting low, and the right front rotor had a black film on it. I pulled the back brakes and saw that they had what looked like several thousand miles left on them, so I just filled the reservoir up, and pumped the brake a few times and all seems fine there.

However, I've noticed that the front brakes don't really stop like I think they should. The brakes seem a little soft; I really have to give the handle a pull for effective braking. I know this bike is about 2x the weight of the Magna, but it also has two rotors vs one on the Magna. I suspected the black film from the very beginning, and so I pulled the caliper off and cleaned the rotor with some brake cleaner, and I cleaned up the caliber some as well. The rag was very black after the cleaning, so that's not a good sign. I didn't see anything that looked like a leak, but there was some grunge on the fork, so maybe this is all left over from an old fork leak.

I took the bike out for a test ride, and didn't really feel any difference - it still isn't stopping like I expect. The black goo hasn't come back, but I did notice the the left rotor was pretty warm - almost stung my fingers, as opposed to the right rotor, which was warm, but not real warm. That tells me that the left caliper is doing all the work. I suppose it could even be stuck closed a bit, but I don't notice the bike dragging when coasting.

I suspect that the pads need replacing on the right. I think that whatever that film was, it got into the pads. I'll bleed the system as well when I replace the pads. But I wanted to get the forum's wisdom on any other things I should be looking for?

Thanks,

PaulOBear
'99 GL1500CF ValksWagen
'97 VF750CD Magna 'Tude

I also alternate between riding a 2001 Magna and a 1999 Valk IS.  Yes the Valk does require a bit more effort to stop.  You can remove the pivot pin from the brake lever and apply a bit of lube.  Also make sure the brake fluid is clean if it looks dark replace it. Whatever you do it will still require more effort than your Magna.  If that much fluid was missing you have a leak somewhere.  With 53K on my Valk I have no loss of fluid and the same with the Magna which just turned 50K.  I would also replace the brake pads.  As the pads wear they require more effort to stop the bike.  I replace mine when they are about 75% worn.

[popsix]

However, I've noticed that the front brakes don't really stop like I think they should. The brakes seem a little soft;

New fluid throughout will likely make a difference you can feel, as well as new pads after they have bedded in nicely. After that, if you really want a firmer feel at the lever, braided lines will give it to you. You probably won't have much if any more real stopping power vs. the OEM lines but braided lines sure do feel nice and tight.

[Chrisj CMA]

Safety Notice Here.

Someone posted the fronts seem slow to stop and someone else posted that the valk takes quite a bit of effort to stop.

First.  The front brakes on a Valkyrie are awesome, (sure theres a bike out there that will out stop a Valk) but properly operating front brakes are awsome and they will (have me) save you in a pinch.

IF YOUR BRAKES CANNOT BE CALLED AWESOME THEN FIX THEM THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG

Second, If your Valkyrie is slow to stop and you are a primary back braker then your bike is probably fine, you are the problem.  Learn to trust the front brakes and use them FIRST in a stopping situation and considerably harder on the fronts than the back.

PS...I dont care who gets sick of me talking about the hazzards of relying on the back brake for primary stopping.  The rider that does this is endangering themselves and everyone around them.  I saw way too much of this silliness in Daytona, in fact I was almost glad I wasnt able to ride to the event this year (long story) for that thar reason alone

[Valkpilot]

Safety Notice Here.

Someone posted the fronts seem slow to stop and someone else posted that the valk takes quite a bit of effort to stop.

First.  The front brakes on a Valkyrie are awesome, (sure theres a bike out there that will out stop a Valk) but properly operating front brakes are awsome and they will (have me) save you in a pinch.

IF YOUR BRAKES CANNOT BE CALLED AWESOME THEN FIX THEM THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG

Second, If your Valkyrie is slow to stop and you are a primary back braker then your bike is probably fine, you are the problem.  Learn to trust the front brakes and use them FIRST in a stopping situation and considerably harder on the fronts than the back.

PS...I dont care who gets sick of me talking about the hazzards of relying on the back brake for primary stopping.  The rider that does this is endangering themselves and everyone around them.  I saw way too much of this silliness in Daytona, in fact I was almost glad I wasnt able to ride to the event this year (long story) for that thar reason alone

+1 on everything in this post.

[Ricky-D]

Yep!

The front brakes are your best friend.

Sure 'nuf

***

[YoungPUP]

Your front brakes are 80-90% of your braking ability. If you're using the rears as your primary brake you're asking for trouble.

[Cruzen]

What you are saying is true however what he is asking about is effort applied to affect the stop.  While you may believe the brakes on the Valk are awesome, that is a subjective assessment.  They are good however in a couple of magazines, reviewers noted that it took a bit more effort on the brake lever than other bikes to stop.  When I first started riding muy Interstate I noted the additional effort required.

Paulobear is comparing the effort to that of a Magna.  As I also ride a Magna I know what he is talking about and yes the Valk does take more “effort” applied to the brake lever.  We’re not talking about actual stopping ability here, just effort to pull the brake lever.  That might be due to displacement of the master cylinder being divided between two calipers verses one for the Magna or the shape and positioning of the brake lever itself.  But then when you get right down to it, both the Magna and the Valk take significantly more effort on the brake lever than a Honda CBR 600.  It’s all what you are used to.

As far as if he is used to rear braking.  Anyone who has ever ridden a Magna knows we do not rely on the rear brake.  Honda has set up the rear brake pedal on the 3rd generation Magna so it is virtually impossible to lock up that rear drum brake unless you stand on the brake pedal.  Some guys put a 1” pad on their brake pedal and make other adjustments to make it more usable.

[Chrisj CMA]

What you are saying is true however what he is asking about is effort applied to affect the stop.  While you may believe the brakes on the Valk are awesome, that is a subjective assessment.  They are good however in a couple of magazines, reviewers noted that it took a bit more effort on the brake lever than other bikes to stop.  When I first started riding muy Interstate I noted the additional effort required.

Paulobear is comparing the effort to that of a Magna.  As I also ride a Magna I know what he is talking about and yes the Valk does take more “effort” applied to the brake lever.  We’re not talking about actual stopping ability here, just effort to pull the brake lever.  That might be due to displacement of the master cylinder being divided between two calipers verses one for the Magna or the shape and positioning of the brake lever itself.  But then when you get right down to it, both the Magna and the Valk take significantly more effort on the brake lever than a Honda CBR 600.  It’s all what you are used to.

As far as if he is used to rear braking.  Anyone who has ever ridden a Magna knows we do not rely on the rear brake.  Honda has set up the rear brake pedal on the 3rd generation Magna so it is virtually impossible to lock up that rear drum brake unless you stand on the brake pedal.  Some guys put a 1” pad on their brake pedal and make other adjustments to make it more usable.

I agree 100% with you Cruzin.  My comments werent actually directed at you, the OP or anyone in particular.  In the past folks have bought second hand Valkyries with air in the lines, old fluid, wrong or worn pads, and they may just accept that maybe the bike is too heavy to have good brakes.  Plus there are are some "rear brakers" out there.  I was defenitly talking to anyone that is a rear braker. 

Good job explaining though, and sorry if you thought I was singling you guys out

[Cruzen]

I agree 100% with you Cruzin.  My comments werent actually directed at you, the OP or anyone in particular.  In the past folks have bought second hand Valkyries with air in the lines, old fluid, wrong or worn pads, and they may just accept that maybe the bike is too heavy to have good brakes.  Plus there are are some "rear brakers" out there.  I was defenitly talking to anyone that is a rear braker. 

Good job explaining though, and sorry if you thought I was singling you guys out

Nope Chrisj,  I have read your posts in the past and knew you were not doing that here either.  And you brought up very good points for everyone to consider especially since there are a few new Valk riders here.   Except for my 2000 Drifter, my Valk was the first bike I had ridden for many years that actually had a rear brake that could be used to stop the bike.  It's almost impossible to stop the Magna using only the rear brake.  A very welcome experience on such a large bike. 

[paulobear]

Thanks all for the great feedback. I'm an MSF graduate, and I know that relying on back breaking isn't a good idea. Locking up the back brake is a good way to high side the bike. So that's not so much of an issue for me. However, the thing that is really setting off alarm bells in my head is that the left rotor was so much hotter than the right rotor. I had originally suspected that the goo on the rotor and pads was the issue. However since I've cleaned that up, but didn't get any better performance, this tells me that either a) there's a sticking piston, or b) there's something gumming up the fluid distribution between left and right calipers. I haven't looked at the Clymer's manual the PO gave me with the bike, but I suspect that there's nothing but a simple 'y' or 't' fitting which distributes the fluid.

As for the rear brake reservoir being so low, I attributed it mostly to just the pads being worn, but not worn out. I didn't see anything leaking. I filled the reservoir because I was paranoid about it getting to low and introducing air at an inopportune moment. 

I don't know about the "pin lube." Can someone please give me more details about this? Can I pick it up at any auto parts store, or is this a m/c specific item?

Again, thanks for all the great information and advice! I'll follow-up with what I find.

PaulOBear
'99 GL1500CF ValksWagen
'97 VF750CD Magna 'Tude

[Cruzen]

I don't know about the "pin lube." Can someone please give me more details about this? Can I pick it up at any auto parts store, or is this a m/c specific item?

I use White Lithium Grease for all lever pivot points on the motorcycle.  This is the same as we have always used on automotive hinges and door and trunk locking mechanisms.

[Chrisj CMA]

Thanks all for the great feedback. I'm an MSF graduate, and I know that relying on back breaking isn't a good idea. Locking up the back brake is a good way to high side the bike. So that's not so much of an issue for me. However, the thing that is really setting off alarm bells in my head is that the left rotor was so much hotter than the right rotor. I had originally suspected that the goo on the rotor and pads was the issue. However since I've cleaned that up, but didn't get any better performance, this tells me that either a) there's a sticking piston, or b) there's something gumming up the fluid distribution between left and right calipers. I haven't looked at the Clymer's manual the PO gave me with the bike, but I suspect that there's nothing but a simple 'y' or 't' fitting which distributes the fluid.

As for the rear brake reservoir being so low, I attributed it mostly to just the pads being worn, but not worn out. I didn't see anything leaking. I filled the reservoir because I was paranoid about it getting to low and introducing air at an inopportune moment. 

I don't know about the "pin lube." Can someone please give me more details about this? Can I pick it up at any auto parts store, or is this a m/c specific item?

Again, thanks for all the great information and advice! I'll follow-up with what I find.

PaulOBear
'99 GL1500CF ValksWagen
'97 VF750CD Magna 'Tude

Another thing that is very important is to examine the pins hold the pads in (the ones that have that plug over the top of them.........these can get grooved up by the pads and even if you "lube" them can still cause the pads to bind.  If they get really bad replace them, but it they just have some light nicks, some steel wool or 400-600 emory cloth will clean them up real good