What if we had no government or taxes?

[Old Tiger]

deleted

[musclehead]

that's missing the mark on several points. what "extreme right wing" are you trying to tie this all too? the tin foil hat wearing Alex Jones listeners? ( I have met one of these blokes, can you say 'cuckoo?')

I'm a conservative I've never even heard of this Norquist guy, if I have it was in passing and probably wasn't flattering. as a conservative I believe government is necessary and I also believe that it has grown beyond what most people would consider reasonable.  the constitution outlines what the government can do, that is a nuisance to those on the left that seem to want total power over peoples lives (tyranny)

and you've posted a blog, someones got an opinion.  so do I and so do you, doesn't mean its right or even factual.

who would fill the vacuum? comrade Obama of course

[Serk]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

[Raverez]

Her's an article about Norquist


http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/jul/29/who-grover-norquist-and-how-did-he-defeat-speaker-/

[The Anvil]

The irony is that when government is not there to keep order the weak, tubby little trolls like Norquist will be the first calves to slaughter. They really have no idea how much they rely on government to keep the wolves at bay. Maybe they'll get to find out.

[thewoodman]

Serk's right, Bush-McCain are WAY too centrist for the uber-right wing side of things. They are almost reasonable people in comparison. Norquist has been around for a few decades and his claim to fame is his conservative pledge: 'no new taxes, no tax increases, no new revenue sources' / a real Johnny one note.

But he has a point. Washington spends way too much and budgets are smoke and mirrors voodoo economics. Heck, even the author of 'Supply Side Economics', Ronald Reagan's economic advisor, David Stockman disavowed the idea. The rich just keep their money and we pay more for less.

Richard Nixon used to have the 'silent majority'. Now the vast majority are lemmings who vote against their own self interest most of the time prompted by popular media using fear to garner viewers and sell air time.

We have a government funded by the corporate oligarchy. Look at the similarity of the legislation offered by many of the states with new conservative governors. Most of the stuff comes from ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, a corporate funded lobbying group formed to push through the corporate agenda.

Look at the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling, making corporations people in terms of free speech issues: in other words, corporations get to spend unlimited amounts of money to lobby and influence the political process with much more power than any of us have a group.

This is all political theater, sold by the news group’s talking heads to keep the population agitated and fearful and compliant.

[bigguy]

But woodman. I thought the media was a bunch of left wing commie loving business haters.

Now you're telling me they're in the pocket of big corporations? I .. I ... I'm confused.

[musclehead]

The irony is that when government is not there to keep order the weak, tubby little trolls like Norquist will be the first calves to slaughter. They really have no idea how much they rely on government to keep the wolves at bay. Maybe they'll get to find out.

'maybe they'll get to find out'  are you calling for anarchy?   

[The Anvil]

The irony is that when government is not there to keep order the weak, tubby little trolls like Norquist will be the first calves to slaughter. They really have no idea how much they rely on government to keep the wolves at bay. Maybe they'll get to find out.

'maybe they'll get to find out'  are you calling for anarchy?   

Goodness no. I just said maybe, not that I WANT it.

Technically though we already have anarchy. We ELECT our kings! 

[Jeff K]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

+1 
What a stupid comment. McCain, Busch... "Extreme right wing"   

[The Anvil]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

+1 
What a stupid comment. McCain, Busch... "Extreme right wing"   

Bush is "extreme right wing" in some ways, just not fiscally. McCain? Well he wasn't but he's starting to act like one. There was a time (immediately before picking Caribou Barbie as his running mate) when I would have voted for the guy. Not anymore. In fact, thanks to him we're still listening to that bimbo wag her manly chin.

More to the point though is that reality is a bitch and REALITY is that the radical right is quite fine with big government. All the talk about wanting small government is a bunch of bullshit. They just want THEIR big government. Where the extreme left wants to tell you how to raise your kids and cuddle murders into being nice people the extreme right wants to inject their religion into your lives and tell you who you can f**k, when you can f**k them and in which positions and influence media, print and radio with their own ideas of morality. The extreme right and extreme left are just different sides of the same coin.

[Tropic traveler]

Grover Norquist, one of the darlings of the extreme rightwing, Gingrich/Bush/McCain branch of the Republican party, once said, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." This statement has been the basis of Republican policy. Norquist went into more detail:

"Cutting the government in half in one generation is both an ambitious and reasonable goal," Norquist stated in May 2000. "If we work hard we will accomplish this and more by 2025. Then the conservative movement can set a new goal. I have a recommendation: To cut government in half again by 2050"

What are the consequences of this extreme right-wing "Drown Government in a Bathtub" doctrine? You drown AMERICA along with it.

http://culturekitchen.com/mole333/blog/drowning_america_in_a_bathtub_the_gingrich_doct


This should be interesting.
So now that that pesky Uncle Sam and his taxes are gone, who will fill the vacuum?
 

 

[Hoser]

The irony is that when government is not there to keep order the weak, tubby little trolls like Norquist will be the first calves to slaughter. They really have no idea how much they rely on government to keep the wolves at bay. Maybe they'll get to find out.

'maybe they'll get to find out'  are you calling for anarchy?   

Goodness no. I just said maybe, not that I WANT it.

Technically though we already have anarchy. We ELECT our kings! 

Wouldn't that be an electoral monarchy? If there were such a thing. Hey, I found a new form of government!     Hoser

[The Anvil]

The irony is that when government is not there to keep order the weak, tubby little trolls like Norquist will be the first calves to slaughter. They really have no idea how much they rely on government to keep the wolves at bay. Maybe they'll get to find out.

'maybe they'll get to find out'  are you calling for anarchy?   

Goodness no. I just said maybe, not that I WANT it.

Technically though we already have anarchy. We ELECT our kings! 

Wouldn't that be an electoral monarchy? If there were such a thing. Hey, I found a new form of government!     Hoser

Well yeah, if we called them kings and actually gave them that kinda power (though we almost have at this point). I was being snarky when I said we elect our kings.

[fudgie]

I think it would be better if we had no parties like NE does, if I'm not mistaken. I dont vote for parties anymore, just the person. Politics do nothing but turn ourselves against one another.

I'd vote John Wayne for president. 

[musclehead]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

+1 
What a stupid comment. McCain, Busch... "Extreme right wing"   

Bush is "extreme right wing" in some ways, just not fiscally. McCain? Well he wasn't but he's starting to act like one. There was a time (immediately before picking Caribou Barbie as his running mate) when I would have voted for the guy. Not anymore. In fact, thanks to him we're still listening to that bimbo wag her manly chin.

More to the point though is that reality is a bitch and REALITY is that the radical right is quite fine with big government. All the talk about wanting small government is a bunch of bullshit. They just want THEIR big government. Where the extreme left wants to tell you how to raise your kids and cuddle murders into being nice people the extreme right wants to inject their religion into your lives and tell you who you can f**k, when you can f**k them and in which positions and influence media, print and radio with their own ideas of morality. The extreme right and extreme left are just different sides of the same coin.

actually I don't think it's a straight line with a center a right and left. I think it curves back around on itself like a ring and the extreme left and extreme right alomost meet.
take Alex Jones, I listened to his radio program for about 1/2 hr and had to turn him off when he was preaching that the government was behind 9-11. he sounded just like a 9-11 truther

sounds like you still suffer from "PDS" (palin derangement syndrome)

[musclehead]

Serk's right, Bush-McCain are WAY too centrist for the uber-right wing side of things. They are almost reasonable people in comparison. Norquist has been around for a few decades and his claim to fame is his conservative pledge: 'no new taxes, no tax increases, no new revenue sources' / a real Johnny one note.

But he has a point. Washington spends way too much and budgets are smoke and mirrors voodoo economics. Heck, even the author of 'Supply Side Economics', Ronald Reagan's economic advisor, David Stockman disavowed the idea. The rich just keep their money and we pay more for less.

Richard Nixon used to have the 'silent majority'. Now the vast majority are lemmings who vote against their own self interest most of the time prompted by popular media using fear to garner viewers and sell air time.

We have a government funded by the corporate oligarchy. Look at the similarity of the legislation offered by many of the states with new conservative governors. Most of the stuff comes from ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, a corporate funded lobbying group formed to push through the corporate agenda.

Look at the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling, making corporations people in terms of free speech issues: in other words, corporations get to spend unlimited amounts of money to lobby and influence the political process with much more power than any of us have a group.

This is all political theater, sold by the news group’s talking heads to keep the population agitated and fearful and compliant.

Good post. I guess I should have realize that Bush et al was no longer conservative enough for some and they couldn't get past the first sentence.
Political parties not withstanding we have become a corporate welfare state.  Here is an interesting list. See any simularities ??

Manufactured fear, corporate welfare and false patriotism are also some of the 14 key characteristics of a fascist state. Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each ~ and America has virtually all of them;


1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and corporate executives.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.

9. Corporate Power is protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even fore go civil liberties in the name of patriotism.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media.

well good thing Obama isn't doing any of those things eh?
except for 1, 4, 8,10,11 and possibly 5 all the rest I can find examples that show Obama has done them 

[The Anvil]

actually I don't think it's a straight line with a center a right and left. I think it curves back around on itself like a ring and the extreme left and extreme right alomost meet.


I'll buy that for a dollar.

sounds like you still suffer from "PDS" (palin derangement syndrome)


More like "dismissal" than derangement. But yeah, It still chafes my ass that anyone pays attention to her.

[Moonshot_1]

I think it would be better if we had no parties like NE does, if I'm not mistaken. I dont vote for parties anymore, just the person. Politics do nothing but turn ourselves against one another.

I'd vote John Wayne for president. 

What is NE? Nebraska?
Nebraska has political parties. They are, however, the only state in the union that has a Unicameral for their legislative branch. Everyone else has a House of Rep. and a seperate Senate. Nebraska rolls it all into one. Works for them.

[Moonshot_1]

Shoot, while I'm here...

What if we had no government or taxes?

We would not doubt have a bunch of people jumping up and down creating a government, followed shortly by taxation by the same.

The question is how much freedom and liberty are a free people willing to secede to its government and still be considered “Free”?

 My opinion is that there have been far too many freedoms and liberties seceded to the government. Too many people with far too much dependence on it.

We need a government that is content with what we chose to give it. Not one that can take what it wants.

[fudgie]

I think it would be better if we had no parties like NE does, if I'm not mistaken. I dont vote for parties anymore, just the person. Politics do nothing but turn ourselves against one another.

I'd vote John Wayne for president. 

What is NE? Nebraska?
Nebraska has political parties. They are, however, the only state in the union that has a Unicameral for their legislative branch. Everyone else has a House of Rep. and a seperate Senate. Nebraska rolls it all into one. Works for them.

Ah yes. Thx for the clarity. Heard it years ago.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

+1 
What a stupid comment. McCain, Busch... "Extreme right wing"   

Bush is "extreme right wing" in some ways, just not fiscally. McCain? Well he wasn't but he's starting to act like one. There was a time (immediately before picking Caribou Barbie as his running mate) when I would have voted for the guy. Not anymore. In fact, thanks to him we're still listening to that bimbo wag her manly chin.

More to the point though is that reality is a bitch and REALITY is that the radical right is quite fine with big government. All the talk about wanting small government is a bunch of bullshit. They just want THEIR big government. Where the extreme left wants to tell you how to raise your kids and cuddle murders into being nice people the extreme right wants to inject their religion into your lives and tell you who you can f**k, when you can f**k them and in which positions and influence media, print and radio with their own ideas of morality. The extreme right and extreme left are just different sides of the same coin.

In many ways, that's very true. We've created a monster.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

What I want from the government is to treat the constitution with the respect it deserves, number one. Not as a problem to be gotten around.

I want them to always put the freedom of individual citizens first. I want the pay of everyone in government to be based on a percentage of the wages of the average working American. I've got no problem with a lot of money being spent on defense. Defense is in many ways the engine that drives our economy. Machine shops, manufacturing and the technology sector are what make us strong and are largely driven by the defense industry in one way or another. Saving money by cutting defense spending hurts our economy and our safety.

Cutting the size of government in half is a worthy goal in my world. Simplifying the tax code would go a long way in that regard I think.

The two main things I want from the government are to provide for the common defense and to leave me the hell alone. They could do that with far less money and people.

[G-Man]

Sorry, but anyone who starts off by stating the RINOs McCain & Bush are in the "extreme rightwing" branch of the Republican party has lost all credibility right off the bat...

That's EXACTLY what went through my mind as I read that first sentence!

[G-Man]

Oh, and I did go on to read the rest.   

[BradValk48237]

All... If we had no government!?!??!?

Hmmmm....

Well SOMEONE has to tell (some) people what to do.... And pay for the nice things we enjoy... Roads, parks, Military, water, etc.

If you go back not to long ago... alot of those things were in Private hands, many major roads were privately built...AND owned- turnpike and toll road anyone? IN the past, if you wanted a road from you homestead and there was none.. you had to clear it yourself and cover any improvements.

We got mad because the Haves were charging the Have-nots and made the government step in and regulate or take over... Oil, Railroads, Water, Power....

SO how do you want it ?????

While I may not be happy with all of the current system, I don't want to go back to having an overlord (King, Baron, Tycoon, etc) that holds sole control ocer what I do..

Having those Ninnys in Washinton, keeps em outta my hair and lets me pretty much do as I please for a low cost...... Compared to other countries and even other times in this country. I hope they DO NOTHING, because the more they do limits MY freedom..

Anyway you slice it.. we will have to pay for it somehow.

Brad