QUICKIE!! I can't find the spec for the length of the rear distance collar

[redflash]

in the manual or on here. Anyone know it? Thanks, she's apart right now, waiting to go back toether with new bearings, seal and damper bushings. Thanks!

(yes, I did a search first and also searched the PDF Valkyrie manual)

[Bone]

Did you look in shoptalk ? Not sure which one you mean.

Look under Rear Bearing. The spacer is .885 and the inner spacer is 4.662.

[redflash]

Nope, forgot to check shoptalk. 4.662 is the inner spacer dimension I needed, mine is 4.642 looks worn about .020, I wonder if it'll do ok?

[Ricky-D]

You're talking about a non-moving part.

There's no way it can wear down. It's more than likely within the tolerance range for that part.

Go ahead and reuse it.

***

[redflash]

Oh it can wear if the bearing is sloppy, I can see where it had on the same side as the sloppy left bearing. That's why I checked it.  Calling a few shops to see if I can check the tolerance.

[Ricky-D]

Oh it can wear if the bearing is sloppy, I can see where it had on the same side as the sloppy left bearing. That's why I checked it.  Calling a few shops to see if I can check the tolerance.

No Way!

The axle properly tightened will prevent any of the kind of movement you suggest as being the cause.

I seriously doubt you will find any satisfactory answers from any "shop"

***

[redflash]

While I pretty much agree with ya, it's defintely worn some, it's visible. See my post from a week or so ago about "Parts shot?" I just spoke to a shop, they said they've never replaced one, and to use it. Not sure I like that, but I also can't find a new one in stock! Rechecked my measurement with digital calipers and it's 4.644, about .018 short

EDIT: the bearing was able to move eccentrically in the race due to wear/slop, rubbing the end of the collar, thus wearing it. Only the side with the worn bearing showed this.

[Ricky-D]

If it bothers you that much.

Use a shim to get to where you want.

There are shim kits available from most aftermarket bike suppliers that are designed for just that reason when tapered bearings were the main type used on motorcycle wheels.

***

[John Schmidt]

Have you had the front wheel off at the same time....possibly. That spacer and the rear one look alike but are different lengths. You can see it if you lay them side by side or measure them. If you have both wheels off at the same time and you're not paying attention, it's easy to install the wrong one in either location. Don't ask.....

[redflash]

Got a new collor due here in the morning, $24 plus $25 for overnight. The shop tech said to replace it, it will put preload on the bearings more than there's supposed to be. The bearing inner was moving concentrically, I noticed the problem because the seal was worn off-center.

Good end:


bad end, against the sloppy left bearing:

[redflash]

Thank you for the timely response Bone! Also John Schmidt, I did not have the back and front off at the same time to enable me to switch them accidentally, just so ya know. I'm going with a new one, almost hate to, but I'd hate to do the repair again any sooner than necessary. Also cleaned out the final drive splines and discovered a broken o-ring, so I'm glad I got in there. Splines look pretty good, will regrease everything upon reassembly. The rear wheel got a good polishing while it was laying around today too

[X Ring]

Oh it can wear if the bearing is sloppy, I can see where it had on the same side as the sloppy left bearing. That's why I checked it.  Calling a few shops to see if I can check the tolerance.

No Way!

The axle properly tightened will prevent any of the kind of movement you suggest as being the cause.

I seriously doubt you will find any satisfactory answers from any "shop"

***

As much as I hate to say it, I agree with RickyD.  If the rear axle is properly tightened the inner race will not move.  The side load will compress the inner races into the inner spacer, the external spacer on the left side and the final drive on the right.  The outer race spins with the wheel.  I've looked at your pics and it appears the axle was not properly torqued allowing all the parts to move and wear against each other.  If you haven't already, inspect all the parts ESPECIALLY the bearings.  In fact you may want to go ahead and replace them to be on the safe side.

Marty

[redflash]

I was in there to replace the bearings in the first place! I am not suprised at this, it's the first time I let a shop change my tire by letting them take off the wheel. I usually take it off myself and let them change the tire. They also left my muffler clamps and rear mounting bolts a little loose, causing a rattle that took me months to find! Could be why the left bearing was worn so badly, but I also ride this thing like my Ducati's, two up, loaded and fast! Also could be because they are original and have 77,000 on them!

[Madmike]

..... measure the distance between the seat lands for the outer races on the wheel bearings.....

[redflash]

to what end Mike? It doesn't look like anything else was moving around in there. I just made a simple line drawing of the bearings, axle and spacer and cannot see how it could move, even if the inner race could move in it's cage of bearings to the outer race, which it was doing because of wear. I suppose the only way it could was if the axle was not tight enough, not clamping the inner races between the collar and swingarm. Wierd that the side with the sloppy bearing was the only side that wore the collar.

[lee]

Maybe its just me, but the pictures of the spacer  does not look like the right one.
No bell shaped end.  ???

Yep I was thinking of the wrong spacer.

[redflash]

I've had the bike since it had 9,300 miles on her, no one has changed it out. It's an '03. Never saw a picture of one other than a straight sided tube.

[X Ring]

Maybe its just me, but the pictures of the spacer  does not look like the right one.
No bell shaped end.  ???

You're thinking of the one in the final drive.  This is the spacer between the wheel bearings inside the rear wheel.  If you want to see a pic check out my ShopTalk article on the Double Row Wheel Bearing Mod.

Marty

[X Ring]

I was in there to replace the bearings in the first place! I am not suprised at this, it's the first time I let a shop change my tire by letting them take off the wheel. I usually take it off myself and let them change the tire. They also left my muffler clamps and rear mounting bolts a little loose, causing a rattle that took me months to find! Could be why the left bearing was worn so badly, but I also ride this thing like my Ducati's, two up, loaded and fast! Also could be because they are original and have 77,000 on them!

This would be the perfect time to perform the double row wheel bearing mod.  How bad was the left bearing pocket damaged?

Marty

[redflash]

Xring, thanks, yes it's the one inside the rear wheel. I just got the new part and IT MEASURES EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ONE I TOOK OUT!! 4.642!! I called Honda to see if I could return it, no dice Anyone needs one, let me know !!! 50 bucks and it's yours, hahahaha

Also, no damage to the bearing pocket at all. The left bearing was sloppy in it's ball cage and race, no grinding, just moving around some inside, but visibly when I checked it. The race didn't move in the pocket at all. The rear wheel seal wearing off center is what told me where the problem was, besides the handling of the bike itself.

[sugerbear]

does the new one look like the old one(ends)?
maybe just a crappy machine cutting it off?

[Ricky-D]

"The rear wheel seal wearing off center is what told me where the problem was, besides the handling of the bike itself. "

All indicative of a loose axle and the end of the spacer receiving the brunt of it.

A little slop in the bearing is not unusual from an old bearing.

Install a new bearing and seal, and clean up the end of the spacer and you'll be good to go.

You should check the axle for unusual wear since there should be none at all.

***

[redflash]

The axle is fine, no signs of wear or bent. My shop guy told me there could be a little movement even if the axle nut is torqued properly when the bearing is moving in it's race from slop. I replaced BOTH wheel bearings, no sense in waitin till the other one goes!  It's back together, test rode and feels like a new machine! Next week I'll do the fronts. Cheap insurance against failure!

[Ricky-D]

You did the correct thing, replacing both bearings since one bearing was sloppy.

They have a co-dependence upon each other and the side play should be negligible.

It was the seal that gave you the clue, and

I want to point out, that if you had a double bearing modification you would have had no such indicator since there is no room for the seal when employing that particular modification.

***

[X Ring]

I want to point out, that if you had a double bearing modification you would have had no such indicator since there is no room for the seal when employing that particular modification.

***

Every time you have a wheel off no matter what the reason is, you should always check the bearings.

Marty

[redflash]

I agree, anytime a wheel is off I stick a finger in the bearings and rotate them, feeling for any abnormality.  I'm bettin my fronts are getting sloppy too, I can feel it some in the handling. Mon/Tue I'll change those out. We have to remember that deterioration of these parts is usually s-l-o-w, so we barely notice till it's pretty bad and a huge difference is felt when new parts are changed in.

[Madmike]

to what end Mike? It doesn't look like anything else was moving around in there. I just made a simple line drawing of the bearings, axle and spacer and cannot see how it could move, even if the inner race could move in it's cage of bearings to the outer race, which it was doing because of wear. I suppose the only way it could was if the axle was not tight enough, not clamping the inner races between the collar and swingarm. Wierd that the side with the sloppy bearing was the only side that wore the collar.

If you measure the distance between the bearing seats inside the hub the spacer length should be very close to the same measurement - plus or minus any "overhang" difference created by either of the races (zero in this application???).  The hub "land ring" (for lack of better wording) is the seats for the two outer races of the bearing.  The spacer performs the same function for the inner races. 

I believe that the reason the OEM setup uses one single row ball bearing and one double row ball bearing is that the double row is meant to take side (radial) loading and axial loading, the single row is designed to only take radial loading.  As the hub assembly heats and cools in use the measurable length of the components will change and so they allow for this change by using the single row bearing on one end of the axle shaft.  The double row takes the side load and as the axle changes length with use the single row allows for the small changes in length because of the way it is built. 

Because the hub doesn't change temperature that much in comparison to other assemblies that use this same principle the double row bearing mod lasts in this application.