starter whiz noise

[6jugzz]

Got a couple of strange whizzing sounds when I started my bike Sat. Then it went away???  Ck'd. repair manual & it says to pull the engine.... Do u really have to pull the engine to ck out gears,clutches and ect.????


Any suggestions from assoc. gear heads!!

Thanks!!        

[hubcapsc]

Got a couple of strange whizzing sounds when I started my bike Sat. Then it went away???

If  "it went away", I hope it stays away...

The ring gear that the starter motor turns on my Ford 8n is trashed, and I'm about to get it
hauled away, split in two, and the ring gear replaced.

There's gears inside the Valk's engine that get busted by the starter when you have
a hydro lock, I guess something else could do it too, and fixing it requires engine removal.

Hope you don't really have to go through that...

-Mike

[6jugzz]

I did not ride today, but cranked up several times--sounds ok now???

[hubcapsc]

I did not ride today, but cranked up several times--sounds ok now???

The ring gear on my tractor has only a few bad teeth. When the ring gear stops
spinning where the bad teeth are, the starter just whirs. Then I put the tractor
in fourth gear, hop off and rock the whole thing by grabbing the wheel. After
a little rocking, the ring gear has moved enough that the starter is engaged
again, and I can start it.

I'm not finding the fiche sheet that shows the gears where the starter
is hooked to the Valk's engine, so I don't really know what stuff looks like
right there, but here's a picture (from the tech archives) of one of the gears
that might break...



I guess something similar to what is going on with my tractor could happen
to a Valk... anybody...?

-Mike

[Garland]

I had a similar problem for a year or so. I would occasionally have to put in gear and rock it backwards to get the teeth to engage or else push-start. In my case, I think I broke one or two teeth off the starter gears when I foolishly started the bike even after I saw gas dripping from the petcock. I got a clank, but then was able to start it. I lived with the problem for over a year, until I hydrolocked again, this time full-bore.  I pulled the engine, replaced the broken gears, and it's fine now.

I installed a manual Pingle petcock to help avoid doing this ever again,  and plan to put in an electric fuel cut-off next time I have the airbox off.

You can pull the starter off pretty easily, and see the gears it engages in the rear case. If any are broken, the engine has to be pulled in order to fix. It's a scary repair, but I managed it by myself with help from this board and the archives.

[hubcapsc]

 * You can pull the starter off pretty easily

Please elaborate. I've been meaning to ask about this. I polished my dull starter one day.

I guess I polished off some zinc coating or something cause now it is rusty and butt ugly.

I want to take it off and paint it or something.

The first time I removed the starter from my 8n I got a nasty surprise when the
little spring loaded holder-downers for the brushes sproinged and I had to
figure out how to un-sproing them...

-Mike

[Garland]

I don't have the service manual in front of me, but as I recall you just remove battery cables, remove cable to starter, remove the three large mounting bolts. I can't recall if I had to take the center cover off to get to everything. Don't touch the 4 long skinny screws running the length of the starter, or the whole unit will come apart, and you don't need that. The starter pulls straight back. 

[Madmike]

Sounds like you split the starter on you 8N when you were pulling it if the brushes came out.  Doesn't it bolt to the engine farther towards the ring gear and then come out as a unit??  I see that it is sold as an assembly with a separate drive available.  It doesn't seem to have a typical flange mount looks like some sort of spigot and maybe clamped in place??

I realise that he 8N starter is somewhat different but as an example here is the MicroFiche for the Valk starter.  

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148720&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1997&fveh=3476

If you remove bolts 13 (times 2) and 14 you can remove the entire assembly from the engine.  When it is off you remove the #5 bolts to disassemble the starter.

If you just want to clean up the start and paint it you should be able to do that once you have it off without taking the starter apart.  There is some even simulated chrome paint that you can get in aerosols if you are so inclined.

[hubcapsc]

 * Sounds like you split the starter on you 8N when you were pulling it if the brushes came out.  Doesn't it bolt to the engine farther towards the ring gear and then come
 * out as a unit??  I see that it is sold as an assembly with a separate drive available.  It doesn't seem to have a typical flange mount looks like some sort of spigot and maybe
 * clamped in place??

I mostly remember the part where it came un-sprung  and I spent a half hour feeling like I needed four
hands to put it back together. The next time it came off, my smart buddy Dan was there, and he removed it,
carefully holding it together while sliding it out, and it didn't come apart.


* If you remove bolts 13 (times 2) and 14 you can remove the entire assembly from the engine.  When it is off you remove the #5 bolts to disassemble the starter.

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148720&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1997&fveh=3476

Bolts number 13 and 14 it is then. Now that I'm confident I can get the starter in my hand without it flying apart, perhaps I can figure out
how to wrap a shiny piece of flashing or something around the "can", and hide the seam in the back. There's room under the number
five bolts for the flashing. Paint will probably turn out to be a better idea though, but it will be hard to paint the can without
getting paint on the number five bolts. My goal is to take it from butt-ugly to not-butt-ugly 

-Mike "don't polish your starter"

[Madmike]

Go ahead and paint the exposed parts..... if you need to take it apart in the future you can always buff the paint off to get on the bolts. 


Someone else gave some good suggestions on disconnecting wires that may  -  I always start by unhooking the ground cable at the negative battery post so that there are no surprise sparks...

I blew a hole in an oilpan when I was an apprentice by shorting out a starter to ground through the pan .... had to put an emegency generator for the telephone exchange in Dawson Creek BC out of service for a few days while I got a new pan.  The lesson stayed with me - that was 30 some years ago now.