HELP: NO BRAKES

[BIG--T]

My wife and I were on our way back from the TN/NC mountains and on the last mountain (Ceaser's Head) very steep and 90* S curves, about 35 minutes from home, NO brakes coming down the mountain!! My rear brake is gone.

What I don't understand is I checked the reservoir which was full before I left and now dry as a bone. I just knew that brake fluid had ruined my paint and chrome, but there is NO evidence of leakage at all.  Anybody know what would cause that?

Thanks

[vanagon40]

At the risk of stating the obvious, it is leaking somewhere.  Try refilling the master cylinder and finding the leak.

[BIG--T]

At the risk of stating the obvious, it is leaking somewhere.  Try refilling the master cylinder and finding the leak.

That is the weird part, there is No evidence of leakage. Are the front and rear brakes linked? Yes I will try refilling after making sure the liner is still there and other checks. I'll let you know.

thanks

[hubcapsc]

At the risk of stating the obvious, it is leaking somewhere.  Try refilling the master cylinder and finding the leak.

That is the weird part, there is No evidence of leakage. Are the front and rear brakes linked? Yes I will try refilling after making sure the liner is still there and other checks. I'll let you know.

The brakes are not linked. Follow the line from the caliper up the swingarm, across the swingarm at the pivot point, and into the mess of master cylinder stuff
at the brake pedal. That's all there is and it is pretty much all in the open, the chrome metal cover might be hiding some stuff...

-Mike

[Anthony]

front and rear are NOT linked,

check your rear brake pad wear, and how far the pistons in the rear brake are pushed out.

check your line for spills, also on the front top of the swing arm, where that rubber hose is fixed to the frame.
(very hard to reach or see )

i am referring to that eye above the nr 5 :
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/GL1/gl36.jpg
anthony

[Big Mike]

If you are 100% sure that there is no leak here are 2 things I would look at. First being the lever. You may have broken or worn down the lever to a point where the plunger is not being engaged. The other would be to check the caliper for a oiece of debris that could be causing the pads to not close properly when applied, maybe a small rock between the pads.

[BradValk48237]

Has to be a leak... he said the reservoir was empty.....  Fluid had to go SOMEWHERE???????

Could he have gotten them hot enough to boil away the fluid???????????

Or a pinhole in the line somewhere.......  Didnt he say there was damage to paint and chrome? if so... where was it?????

[John U.]

I think Bradvalk is right.
If the leak isn't showing at the caliper or master cylinder there has to be a pinhole leak in the brake line, probably only when the brake pedal is depressed. If it only leaks when pressure is applied to the fluid, the leaked fluid could be spraying on the road rather than making puddles when stopped.

[X Ring]

Tony, don't tell me you were ONLY using your rear brake.

Marty

[BIG--T]

Has to be a leak... he said the reservoir was empty.....  Fluid had to go SOMEWHERE???????

Could he have gotten them hot enough to boil away the fluid???????????

Or a pinhole in the line somewhere.......  Didnt he say there was damage to paint and chrome? if so... where was it?????

No damage to the paint/chrome, but whem I seen the reservoir empty, I thought it had!

[F6BANGER]

Im guessing a combination of things. They were mentioned here already but not together. First the pads are probably worn so most of the fluid is in the caliper. Second, if you were riding your rear brake, you could have boiled the fluid. Just fill up the reservoir and bleed the rear brakes, then put a lot of pressure on the pedal and look for leaks. Dont forget to check your rear pads.

[BIG--T]

Tony, don't tell me you were ONLY using your rear brake.

Marty

No, I have ALWAYS used both front and rear applying equal pressure since I began riding. I have always been easy on brakes both bike/auto. When I see I'll have to stop I'll start slowing down and sometimes downshift. Even in the mountains I didn't ride them but used them when i had to. Some have been amazed how long brakes last me....except this is different.

Tony

[X Ring]

Just wanted to make sure cause you said you lost your brakes then specified it was your back brakes.  I got a little concerned.  A couple of years ago I lost my rear brake.  The pads were so thin that all the fluid was out of the reservoir.  Added enough fluid to get me home and changed the pads a couple of days later.

Marty 

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I don't know if all bikes are the same but I've ran my rear pads do to metal before and still did not loose any fluid from arround the pistons. I think if you re- fill it and bleed the system and put pressure on it you'll find a leak somewhere.

[Earl in Pensacola]

First Check your rear pads--I'd be willing to bet that they are toast!!  If that turns out to be the case then I would suspect that your mastercylender was a little low to start with and with the added wear on the pads allowed your fluid ot go way too low and then you pumped air into the line.  So, first thing I'd do is check the rear pads, if they are anything over 1/2 worn out, replace them, flush the brake fluid and fill to the full mark with DOT 4, then  give her a try.

[Ricky-D]

I feel all this conjecture is wasted effort since XGUY has not reported back on his inspection.

Based on his statement that the reservoir was full prior to embarking on the ride, I feel very confident he will see, upon a more thorough inspection, where exactly the fluid has been leaking.

When changing (R&R) the rear wheel there can be unusual strain put upon the short flexible brake line at the caliper. There are cautions when dealing with these flexible lines.

I feel certain he will find the source of the problem and then report his finding to the forum.

***

[BIG--T]

I want to thank you all for reaching out to help. I wished I'd waited until it was light and went over it throughly before I posted. When the brake went out coming down the mountain, it was dark and trying to look through the 1/4" slot it looked empty.

When I went over it today, the pads looked good and pulled the covers off, standing the bike up straight, it HAD fluid! Even though the fluid wasn't perfectly clear, it wasn't bad. So when I tried the brake cold- it worked fine!! All  I can figure is I must of had moisture in the fluid and it was boiling.

I bled it as well as the front and also the clutch and now works great.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll really put it through the test in Thunder in the Valley this weekend

[Farther]

If you think you have moisture in your fluid you should change it out for new stuff.

[BIG--T]

If you think you have moisture in your fluid you should change it out for new stuff.

Yes I did that yesterday including my clutch. I hope that is all it was and will find out this weekend bc I'll be back in the mountains again. 

Thanks

[BIG--T]

I had no idea that moisture in brake fluid woud cause brake failure!!

[Anthony]

moisture = water instead of hydraulic fluid.
braking involves heat, so locally also the fluid gets hot in the calipers.
water that gets hot starts to boil.
boiled water = gas
unlike a ( hydraulic ) fluid, gas can be compressed easily:

as a result in the situation where you were using and depending on your brakes a lot,
you got the water in the fluids so hot, that they form gas bubbles, which become compressed so easy that you don't have any pressure anymore on your pads = no brakes.
same situation as if there was still air inside a line that was not bled correctly.

hydraulic fluid is very thin and can withstand those temperatures, but it is hygroscopic ( absorbs water from environment)

that is why there are sight glasses on your reservoirs :
clear fluid = OK;
brownish fluid = replace !!!

Anthony

[BIG--T]

Anthony I'm a believer now!! Lol!  From now on they will be clear at all times! That was a hair raising experience coming down a VERY steep mountain with me and my wife and at least 50 lbs of gear totaling about 440lbs, then cars hitting their brakes and at times I had to go to the right or left of them sometimes as far as their quarter panel while laying hard on the front brake and fast downshifting!  Yes I've learned my lesson and hopefully will help others reading this post.

CHANGE YOUR FLUIDS WHEN NOT CLEAR!! 

[DenverDave]

You should always downshift when descending a downhill section of road. I can't tell you how many cars (mostly out of state) I see coming down the mountains with their brake lights on all the way down the hill. Burning brakes are not a great smell. Use the engine to keep your speed under control and only use the brakes to make minor speed adjustments.

Ride Safe

Dave


No, I have ALWAYS used both front and rear applying equal pressure since I began riding. I have always been easy on brakes both bike/auto. When I see I'll have to stop I'll start slowing down and sometimes downshift. Even in the mountains I didn't ride them but used them when i had to. Some have been amazed how long brakes last me....except this is different.

Tony
[/quote]

[BIG--T]

You should always downshift when descending a downhill section of road. I can't tell you how many cars (mostly out of state) I see coming down the mountains with their brake lights on all the way down the hill. Burning brakes are not a great smell. Use the engine to keep your speed under control and only use the brakes to make minor speed adjustments.

Ride Safe

Dave

I always downshift coming down mountains...and some serious downshifting this time! When on level grade and know I got to stop, I let off the throttle and do downshift sometimes- all dependant on the situation. I had rather replace pads  than a clutch! 


No, I have ALWAYS used both front and rear applying equal pressure since I began riding. I have always been easy on brakes both bike/auto. When I see I'll have to stop I'll start slowing down and sometimes downshift. Even in the mountains I didn't ride them but used them when i had to. Some have been amazed how long brakes last me....except this is different.

Tony

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