Disgusting

[..]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/ct-met-pensions-villanova-20110902,0,1997273.story

[Hoser]

Geez, I knew I should have run for union office before I retired!  Hoser  ???

[Jabba]

Oh c'mon you Union Basher.

Unions are great, and serve the country very well.  This guy is OBVIOUSLY the exception.

[old2soon]

And never forget-we be talkin bout Chicago,Il. here. While they may not have invented corruption they have certainly refined it over the years. Corrupt mayors congressmen and women. Double dealing and lying going on most of the time. Remember i said this already-Illinois and Chicago-home of the best politicians and union officials money can buy. RIDE SAFE.

[FLAVALK]

Say it ain't so! How could it be??? in Chicago??? 

[Ramjet]

And never forget-we be talkin bout Chicago,Il. here. While they may not have invented corruption they have certainly refined it over the years. Corrupt mayors congressmen and women. Double dealing and lying going on most of the time. Remember i said this already-Illinois and Chicago-home of the best politicians and union officials money can buy. RIDE SAFE.

Isn't the President from Chicago?

[Chillerman]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union  ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

[Spirited-6]

Oh c'mon you Union Basher.

Unions are great, and serve the country very well.  This guy is OBVIOUSLY the exception.

JABBA, boy you have  "BLINDERS ON ". This is why Auto Workers earn  $75 to 85 dollars an hour and pass on to Car Buyers.

[Willow]

Oh c'mon you Union Basher.

Unions are great, and serve the country very well.  This guy is OBVIOUSLY the exception.

JABBA, boy you have  "BLINDERS ON ". This is why Auto Workers earn  $75 to 85 dollars an hour and pass on to Car Buyers.

The font Jabba used is called "jokerman".    

[old2soon]

And never forget-we be talkin bout Chicago,Il. here. While they may not have invented corruption they have certainly refined it over the years. Corrupt mayors congressmen and women. Double dealing and lying going on most of the time. Remember i said this already-Illinois and Chicago-home of the best politicians and union officials money can buy. RIDE SAFE.

Isn't the President from Chicago?

  Yuppers he are. And when he left blaggoyosob tried to SELL the obamanaters senate seat. Corruption in chicago don't even rate the front page in the newspapers anymore. RIDE SAFE.

[DIGGER]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union  ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

I'm a hard worker, been on the same job for 35 yrs, produce much more than the average worker next to me.....and I am a member of the IBEW Electrical Union and I wouldn't work any other way.  Here in the Houston area I get a decent wage, INSURANCE, REEEEETIREMENT, and a 401K.  Most open shops here get an average wage, no insurance, no retirement, and some get a 401k that is at the mercy of the owner of the small company.....If you are so ashamed of your Union you have to option to go non union.  You say you can't affort to leave....why.....because you would lose the union benefits you will get.....that is ......benefits that you wouldn't get if you went non-union.

[sugerbear]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union  ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

I'm a hard worker, been on the same job for 35 yrs, produce much more than the average worker next to me.....and I am a member of the IBEW Electrical Union and I wouldn't work any other way.  Here in the Houston area I get a decent wage, INSURANCE, REEEEETIREMENT, and a 401K.  Most open shops here get an average wage, no insurance, no retirement, and some get a 401k that is at the mercy of the owner of the small company.....If you are so ashamed of your Union you have to option to go non union.  You say you can't affort to leave....why.....because you would lose the union benefits you will get.....that is ......benefits that you wouldn't get if you went non-union.

ya know, i've clicked on the reply button 4 times, and then deleted it.
what's the use................. 

[Jess Tolbirt]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union   ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

I'm a hard worker, been on the same job for 35 yrs, produce much more than the average worker next to me.....and I am a member of the IBEW Electrical Union and I wouldn't work any other way.  Here in the Houston area I get a decent wage, INSURANCE, REEEEETIREMENT, and a 401K.  Most open shops here get an average wage, no insurance, no retirement, and some get a 401k that is at the mercy of the owner of the small company.....If you are so ashamed of your Union you have to option to go non union.  You say you can't affort to leave....why.....because you would lose the union benefits you will get.....that is ......benefits that you wouldn't get if you went non-union.

see if i cancel my reply here,,
Digger,
if you are a shop electrician,,you are not in the real world out here,,with the construction workers every time there is a lay off and you dont have 400 hours on the books guess what? yep you have to start your ins over,,,
non union shops do have retirement,,better than the union,,health ins.. a lot better than the union,,,wages that are about the same,,just dont have to pay the dues,,,you need to get out and do some checking around,,how do I know? I am ex union,,IBEW local 429...every union shop except for 3 around here closed up and went non union because the union was causing them to go broke,,,
o hell i am with sugar bear,,,aint worth the effort anymore,,,

[Chillerman]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union  ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

I'm a hard worker, been on the same job for 35 yrs, produce much more than the average worker next to me.....and I am a member of the IBEW Electrical Union and I wouldn't work any other way.  Here in the Houston area I get a decent wage, INSURANCE, REEEEETIREMENT, and a 401K.  Most open shops here get an average wage, no insurance, no retirement, and some get a 401k that is at the mercy of the owner of the small company.....If you are so ashamed of your Union you have to option to go non union.  You say you can't affort to leave....why.....because you would lose the union benefits you will get.....that is ......benefits that you wouldn't get if you went non-union.

I don't have the option to go non-union if I want to work for the company I have worked for the last 16 years. And yes, I am hoping to get a pension from the union when I retire, but much like the government, the union takes our dues and does what it pleases with them. I am a member of the Pipefitters Union and due to bad investments we are paying back losses out of our paycheck! Go figure  !

[MacDragon]

Did someone say "Al Capone"

[bscrive]

Unions have had their place in history but it is time for them to exit.  The reason why everything is so expensive today is because unions got their workers so much more money that other companies had to charge more because it costs them more to hire them.  So everything goes up.  I work for the federal gov't in Canada and if I could leave the union and send my union dues to a charity I would do it in a second.  For us at least the union is for the idiots that don't want to work or the screw-ups.  In my 20 years with the gov't I have never needed them. 

My brother also has a union where he works at the bus company, everyone there calls it the toothless tiger.  They just feed you to the wolves if you ever need them.

[Jabba]

Oh c'mon you Union Basher.

Unions are great, and serve the country very well.  This guy is OBVIOUSLY the exception.

JABBA, boy you have  "BLINDERS ON ". This is why Auto Workers earn  $75 to 85 dollars an hour and pass on to Car Buyers.

Like Willow says... Jokerman.  We made that the OFFICIAL sarcasm font.  Sorry you were note cc'd on the memo.



Jabba

[DIGGER]

I work for a union and I've said it before. The unions promote laziness, incompetence and corruption. If you want a high salary without doing much, join a union. If you are talented and a hard worker and want to make a difference, the union isn't the way to go. I'm 16 years in and can't afford to leave but it is a shame that the 20 year guy next to me doesn't know or do sh!t and makes more than me because of the damn union   ! It is a broken system no doubt. I am all for competing for jobs and paying for production.

I'm a hard worker, been on the same job for 35 yrs, produce much more than the average worker next to me.....and I am a member of the IBEW Electrical Union and I wouldn't work any other way.  Here in the Houston area I get a decent wage, INSURANCE, REEEEETIREMENT, and a 401K.  Most open shops here get an average wage, no insurance, no retirement, and some get a 401k that is at the mercy of the owner of the small company.....If you are so ashamed of your Union you have to option to go non union.  You say you can't affort to leave....why.....because you would lose the union benefits you will get.....that is ......benefits that you wouldn't get if you went non-union.

see if i cancel my reply here,,
Digger,
if you are a shop electrician,,you are not in the real world out here,,with the construction workers every time there is a lay off and you dont have 400 hours on the books guess what? yep you have to start your ins over,,,
non union shops do have retirement,,better than the union,,health ins.. a lot better than the union,,,wages that are about the same,,just dont have to pay the dues,,,you need to get out and do some checking around,,how do I know? I am ex union,,IBEW local 429...every union shop except for 3 around here closed up and went non union because the union was causing them to go broke,,,
o hell i am with sugar bear,,,aint worth the effort anymore,,,

I am in construction.  I handle all the electrical needs of a large oil company in downtown Houston.  It's a 32 story bldg and in the last 3 yrs we have totally rebuilt the bldg from the frame and cinderblock up.  Installed all new electrical bus risers and switchgear that run the bldg.......and the customer still was in operation during all this.   We still got about another yr of work to do. 
Here in the Houston area non unions don't pay quite as much as the unions and NONE that I know of have retirement plans other than 401k's.   These 401K's are at the mercy of the company owners and occassionally they hit hard times and raid the 401k monies and leave the workers without.  Only a few have insurance plans that I know of. 

And why do you think Union Construction Company Owners sign Union Contracts?  They don't have to.  They can go non union so why do you think they sign union contracts?  They go union because they want to.  They want a qualified, trained workforce at a fair price and they can get as many men as they need with just a phone call.  When a big job eventually comes to an end they can just let the workers go. There is no haggling with the workers over wages and benefits and job conditions.  Both sides know what to expect when the workers hits the job.  When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides.

[RoadKill]

One thing the unions do not do is encourage good work ethic....that is where the problem lies. It breeds the entitlement way of thinking.

[sugerbear]

"When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides."

they hope, but, it's just the next guy on the list, not the best worker.
ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. just like non-union.

not every "journeyman" is a journeyman.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

"When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides."

they hope, but, it's just the next guy on the list, not the best worker.
ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. just like non-union.

not every "journeyman" is a journeyman.

Yep. I run the maintenance dept of a non-union plant but when we hire contractors, the plumbers, gas line people and electricians are virtually always union. The trade unions train their people well, at least in my experience.

[BigAl]

Getting perks from the city like that.

Makes me wonder whose pocket he is in.

Probabaly does not have the rank and files welfare in mind.

Just do what the city wants and go along to get along and get your pension from both entities.

Now that's some waste that governments all talk about and when they nail it down the rank and file go crazy.

Like it's a bad thing to cut out corruption.

[DIGGER]

"When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides."

they hope, but, it's just the next guy on the list, not the best worker.
ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. just like non-union.

not every "journeyman" is a journeyman.

this is true.  but in any company anywhere of any size you have your slackers whether they are union or non union or an office type company or for that matter any company.   There is always someone in the company not carrying their load.
In the IBEW in Houston if a contractor gets a journeyman from the union that is not trained or capable of doing the work or is consistently late or any other reason he can lay the worker off and put on his termination slip why he is being laid off. 
The worker has to have this termination slip to get back on the out of work book.  After 3 bad termination slips the worker has to go before the Executive Board and is given a warning.    And I think it is after 3 Executive Board trips the worker is kicked out of the work force.  Yes we have some slackers but they ahve trouble holding  a job.  But for the most part we are pretty lean and mean.

[9Ball]

"When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides."

they hope, but, it's just the next guy on the list, not the best worker.
ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. just like non-union.

not every "journeyman" is a journeyman.

this is true.  but in any company anywhere of any size you have your slackers whether they are union or non union or an office type company or for that matter any company.   There is always someone in the company not carrying their load.
In the IBEW in Houston if a contractor gets a journeyman from the union that is not trained or capable of doing the work or is consistently late or any other reason he can lay the worker off and put on his termination slip why he is being laid off. 
The worker has to have this termination slip to get back on the out of work book.  After 3 bad termination slips the worker has to go before the Executive Board and is given a warning.    And I think it is after 3 Executive Board trips the worker is kicked out of the work force.  Yes we have some slackers but they ahve trouble holding  a job.  But for the most part we are pretty lean and mean.

only six chances....should probably hold out for a few more next contract....

[sugerbear]

"When they  call the union for a Journeyman Electrician they know when the guy gets there he is trained to lay out work, bend pipe, run wire and trim out.  No one makes them sign a contract....they want to.  Works out for both sides."

they hope, but, it's just the next guy on the list, not the best worker.
ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. just like non-union.

not every "journeyman" is a journeyman.

this is true.  but in any company anywhere of any size you have your slackers whether they are union or non union or an office type company or for that matter any company.   There is always someone in the company not carrying their load.
In the IBEW in Houston if a contractor gets a journeyman from the union that is not trained or capable of doing the work or is consistently late or any other reason he can lay the worker off and put on his termination slip why he is being laid off. 
The worker has to have this termination slip to get back on the out of work book.  After 3 bad termination slips the worker has to go before the Executive Board and is given a warning.    And I think it is after 3 Executive Board trips the worker is kicked out of the work force.  Yes we have some slackers but they ahve trouble holding  a job.  But for the most part we are pretty lean and mean.

only six chances....should probably hold out for a few more next contract....

psssssst...........that would be ............9...............

[DIGGER]

what's wrong with 9?  Need to make sure there is a problem first. 

Also , by the way, we don't have any kind of "SENIORITY" clause either.   Nor the right to strike.