Heated Jacket Liners

[Pattinicknack]

I'd like some feedback from anyone that has tried the latest Powerlet Jacket Liner, Rapid Fire Proform Infrared technology.  I'm thinking of buying one and would like to hear from anyone that owns one of these.  I haven't had a lot of success with the wired types as I keep having the problem with breaking wires. Anyone?

[F6BANGER]

Havent tried the Powerlet Liner. I made my own heated liners for less than $20. I used the liner from my Joe Rocket and ran my own wire. I used 40 feet of 28awg wire and use a Gerbing temp controller. I also made a liner for my girlfriend and got a pwm off of ebay. I used 30' of 30awg for hers. Her jacket is about 40watts mine is about 78watts give or take.

I think the newer jackets have better wire and dont break like the old ones.

[The Anvil]

Back in the early days of heated garments (really, heated by wire ANYTHING) the sheathing on the wire would harden and crack with repeated heat cycling. But the rubber they use nowadays is designed specifically for repeated heat cycling and flexing.

[Pattinicknack]

I've an older generation Gerbings liner that I have repaired broken wires repeatedly.  Also have newer Gerbings that have the other type of wire.  The wire has been breaking inside the flexable seathing which is very difficult to find when this happens.  This is why I'm thinking of going with this newer infrared powerlet type but it would be interesting to hear from someone that has one.  Thanks for your response.
Interesting about making your own, how do you hold the wires in place, sew them to the liner?

[The Anvil]

I've an older generation Gerbings liner that I have repaired broken wires repeatedly.  Also have newer Gerbings that have the other type of wire.  The wire has been breaking inside the flexable seathing which is very difficult to find when this happens.  This is why I'm thinking of going with this newer infrared powerlet type but it would be interesting to hear from someone that has one.  Thanks for your response.
Interesting about making your own, how do you hold the wires in place, sew them to the liner?

Yeah, internal breaks are a pain in the ass.

[artyc264]

Hi I'm Arty in Mass and ride all winter long. I had horrible luck with Grbing jacket and gloves. My retailer took back the Gerbing stuff and let me try First Gear jacket and gloves. Three winters and no problems. The First Gear stuff works great! Thanks, Arty

[T.P.]

http://12voltclothing.com/  I just got a 4th gen jacket on Monday from Larry Peterson  who did advertise on the board a few years back. the First Gear stuff is made by Warm and safe. T.P.

[czuch]

I have the first gear gear.
Its wonderful. I know, it dosent really get cold in Tucson.
17 deg is cold for me though. 40 is too at 75 mph.
I have the jacket liner and will debut the gloves this winter. I'm very happy with First gear..

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've had Gerbing for years and never had a problem other than the contoller going out ( twice ) . Free replacement on it if it does'nt last ( 2 ) years. One of mine died at 6 years the last one went at around 3 1/2 years.

[Motorider]

I've an older generation Gerbings liner that I have repaired broken wires repeatedly.  Also have newer Gerbings that have the other type of wire.  The wire has been breaking inside the flexable seathing which is very difficult to find when this happens.  This is why I'm thinking of going with this newer infrared powerlet type but it would be interesting to hear from someone that has one.  Thanks for your response.
Interesting about making your own, how do you hold the wires in place, sew them to the liner?

Gerbings has a Lifetime warranty on the internal wiring. Just send it back for repair.

[Pattinicknack]

Cost so much to ship it to the US from Canada, we gave up on that after they fixed it once.  It's had many breaks since so I do it myself now.  Sounds like First Gear lasts better, thought we had a winner with Gerbings but I guess not.  Going to try the alternative....Powerlet.  Give you some feedback when I've tried it out but it will be a few weeks to ship.  Get pretty spoiled with the heated gear, hate to be without it now.

[Pattinicknack]

OK, got a Powerlet Jacket Liner.  Very impressed with everything BUT they advertise that the colar is heated but I wouldn't have even noticed it unless I had been told it was there.  That is disappointing.  Otherwise, nice fit, fabric and workmanship. Emailed them twice about the colar, thinking it wasn't working, but never did get a response.  That also is disappointing as they say they will answer any emails.  Oh well, overall it is very nice and I would recommend it but have only used it one month now so haven't given the workings a thorough test yet.  Most bikes put away for the winter but still have a collector on the road for those nice sunny, crisp days.
Thanks all for any input.

[art]

I've had a widder vest an gloves for about ten years now an no wire breaks.could use a little more heat but from 25 degrees on up it works good

[Sodbuster]

That's disappointing to hear bad reports about Gerbing products. I've had a Widder vest now for over 15 years with no problems. I believe Harley-Davidson bought them out ??

[Fritz The Cat]

http://12voltclothing.com/  I just got a 4th gen jacket on Monday from Larry Peterson  who did advertise on the board a few years back. the First Gear stuff is made by Warm and safe. T.P.

What a Gawd Awful website. 

[MarkT]

I wired two light jackets, and the liner to my Joe Rocket armored jacket.  Wrote up the procedure at http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Electric_Jacket/electric_jacket.html  If you get the right kind of wire, it doesn't break, and the insulation doesn't fail either.  Specifically, 28-ga silver plated copper teflon coated 19/40 stranded mil-spec wire.  My first jacket I targeted and got 85watts.  The second two, I got right at 100 watts.  I bought a Warm-N-Safe dual controller, to power the jacket and electric gloves separately.

[F6BANGER]

Mark, you can cook a turkey with that 100w jacket.... but  deep frying tastes better...LOL...

[GJS]

This all looks way cool! (in a warm sort of way)

I looked up MarkT's site and think I want to give this a shot.(Canadian winters and all)
The link to the heated wire does not work anymore.
Does anyone else have a source for the wire MarkT was recommending?

Cheers,

Glenn

[JP in SC]

Does anyone else have a source for the wire MarkT was recommending?

try http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html

[GJS]

Thanks JP,

But that looks like just wires.
Arn't the wires needed some kind of resistive wire (creating heat when live)?

Thanks

Glenn

[2qmedic]

I have a Widder electric vest that I purchased in 1989. I was off of the bike for a while while the kids were little, but I still wear it. Thought it finally gave out earlier this month, but just replaced the fuse on the power cord and all has been toasty again. Could be a little warmer though, but ain't complaining!!!

Cheers 

[BonS]

Thanks JP,

But that looks like just wires.
Arn't the wires needed some kind of resistive wire (creating heat when live)?

Thanks

Glenn

All wire heats up depending upon the resistance of the wire and the current. The smaller the diameter of the wire (the larger the gauge) the more it will heat up with the same current.  It's basic ohms law stuff.

Nichrome is the wire alloy of choice that is used in toasters and heaters because it won't corrode even when heated to around 1200-1800 degrees fahrenheit. Plain copper wire will corrode rapidly at half these temperatures.

Plating copper with a non-corrosive covering such as silver helps to reduce the corrosion rate to an acceptable level (nil?) when we're talking 150 F or the like. Remember, we're not heating our electric clothing to anything like a toaster!

[GJS]

Thanks for the reply BonS.

Yeah, I get ohms law.
I think these wires are designed to optimize signal transmission. Not power through small gauge wiring.

I may be wrong but I suspect the wire used in electric blankets and such have very specific electrical properties to produce warmth in a safe way.

I think if I connected a 22gauge wire accross a 12 volt battery, I'd get warmth and then a flame just prior to melting the wire. I guess that might be what the controller is managing, but I still suspect resistive wire (by design, not by default).

Cheers,

Glenn

[BonS]

From a corrosion standpoint either copper or Nichrome wire is a toss up at jacket liner temperatures. But you're right Glenn, it is hard to manage a low resistance wire such as copper when using 12 volts. The resistance of 22 gauge copper wire is about 16 milli-ohms per foot instead of about 1 ohm per foot for 22 gauge Nichrome. If you do use Nichrome wire then you have to run multiple parallel wire runs to keep the wattage where you want it. For a 100 watt jacket liner @ 12.8 volts this is about 18" equivalent length for parallel wire runs. If using 22 gauge copper the wire lengths will be more like 62 feet @ 12.8 volts. Thus a voltage controller is mandatory, at way less than 100% duty cycle, if using copper wire. And in the event of a controller failure things could get ugly. If using  parallel wires and one breaks then you get a cold zone. If using  60+ feet of copper wire and it breaks you get a cold liner. I like the Nichrome solution better.

[The Anvil]

You can actually plug in a heated vest without a heat-troller but it will be intolerable hot. Won't burst into flames though.

[2qmedic]

I for sure am not an electrictian. I understand the basic's only.  ???
This being said, it makes me wonder about the vest that I do have (Widder). As stated earlier, I purchased it in 1989 and it provides min amount of warmth and has served me well  . It could however use a boost...
My question is...Being I already have an electric vest, could I run another line (perhaps 20-30 watts) to give it a boost? I would use an additional switch for the second line (as a booster) to provide additional warmth on the coldest days   . It seems as if this would be a good back up persay if one system failed. Would this creat more problems than it would be worth?
Any thoughts would be welcome,
Thanks

[Madmike]

homemade electric clothing  I have seen the wire on E-Bay

[BonS]

homemade electric clothing  I have seen the wire on E-Bay

I didn't read the entire article closely but I did spy that the author says that 1 foot of 30 gauge copper wire is 1 ohm - wrong! It's 0.1 ohm. So it's running at 10 times the expected power. It goes on to say "And it's plenty hot, maybe even too hot" and that may be why! Be careful and double check what you know and your calculations. On the other hand baked cyclist might taste pretty good when properly marinated.  

[The Anvil]

Took my first ride with the Warm and Safe full liner and gloves today. Temps started in the high 40's and wound up in the upper 30's by the time I got home. Just awesome. I wish I'd done this sooner.

Should have worn my fleece lined jeans though.

[BonS]

I recently rode with just my heated vest, neck wrap, full face helmet and chaps for 1500+ miles. It was in the mid 30's to upper 50's and I was toasty warm with the vest mostly on low. My chaps worked great at stopping the wind blast on my legs and they were fine. I was amazed at how comfortable I was. 45+ years of riding and this is my first season with heated gear. Ya' can't go back.