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MarkT Exhaust
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Author Topic: Handlebar riser torque  (Read 3461 times)
JetDriver
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Posts: 372


Columbus, OH


« on: September 28, 2011, 08:35:13 PM »

I guess Honda didn't think we'd ever take the risers off.  I torqued the nuts on the bottom of the triple tree to 40 lbs.  Does that seem reasonable?  I'm not talking about the allen screws on top that clamp the handlebar to the riser, but the nuts that fasten the risers to the triple clamp.  Thx.
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RonW
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Newport Beach


« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 02:27:40 AM »

Per manual, it's 47 ft-lbs. for my 2000 Tourer instead of 40 ft-lbs. Whatever the modulus of elasticity of the metal that the top bridge is made of, the 47 ft-lbs. spec is consistent with the 41 ft-lbs for the top bridge pinch bolts. There's no law that you can't torque the riser nut to 20 ft-lbs. instead of 40-47 ft-lbs. Your bike.

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2000 Valkyrie Tourer
X Ring
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VRCC #27389, VRCCDS #204

The Landmass Between Mobile And New Orleans


« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 02:43:23 AM »

It's 47 ft-lbs for all Valkyries.  Despite what Ronw says, this is a safety item.  Torque it to spec.

Marty
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People are more passionately opposed to wearing fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than bikers.           
9Ball
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Posts: 2183


South Jersey


« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 06:21:32 AM »

It's 47 ft-lbs for all Valkyries.  Despite what Ronw says, this is a safety item.  Torque it to spec.

Marty

amen...
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VRCC #6897, Joined May, 2000

1999 Standard
2007 Rocket 3
2005 VTX 1300S
The Anvil
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Derry, NH


« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 07:42:36 AM »

Little known fact; in most cases specified torque is to prevent over torquing of fasteners rather than under torquing. As a general rule humans who don't know any better will apply excessive torque which can stretch and damage bolts and cause failure.

40ft lbs is likely fine. 20? Too low by quite a bit BUT you'll feel your handlebars coming loose before anything falls apart (if you don't you have no business riding a motorcycle). 47 (specified for a reason) is best.

More than 50? Very bad idea. You're not going to feel anything until a bolt snaps.

If you ever find yourself unsure of a torque value of a basic fastener then you can go here: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 and look in chapter 7 for a list of "safe" torque values. Actually there's a LOT of stuff in the AC 43.13 that you might find useful.
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.

1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
Ricky-D
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Posts: 5031


South Carolina midlands


« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 09:31:28 AM »

41 foot pounds of torque on those socket head cap screws, to me, is seeming to be close to stripping the threads out of the aluminum.

I haven't taken a torque wrench to those but knowing how notorious, torque wrenches are for being out of calibration, it would be a good thing to have some moly's standing by in order to be able to fix the ripped out threads you surely will have.

The first time, at the original manufacturing date it may be a proper torque value (41 ft-lb), but subsequent loosening and tightening exercises will adversely affect the threads inside the aluminum and in my opinion will cause the threads to eventually strip out.

Secondly, the socket head cap screws are tightening down the top bridge which in turn is holding the handlebars, so anything gained by an extra few degrees of turning the screws to attain the noted torque value will gain very little in the force being applied directly to the handlebars but greatly increase the possibility of a failure of the threads in the risers.

Lastly, and equally important in the discussion question is the introduction of lubrication of the threads with something such as an anti-seize compound.  Lubrication will absolutely alter the torque specifications and could also be a reason to be more cautious when applying the stated torque values.

Steel nuts which are generally grade eight or greater and steel threads have a greater ability to withstand over-torquing. Aluminum does not posses the same ability and assuming you can stretch a grade eight socket head cap screw which is threaded into aluminum threads, to me, is dangerous ground.

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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
The Anvil
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Derry, NH


« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 09:51:26 AM »

41 foot pounds of torque on those socket head cap screws, to me, is seeming to be close to stripping the threads out of the aluminum.

If you have enough grip length then 41 is fine. Thread and bolt material is only one of the factors that determines whether or not a combination can handle a given torque.

I haven't taken a torque wrench to those but knowing how notorious, torque wrenches are for being out of calibration, it would be a good thing to have some moly's standing by in order to be able to fix the ripped out threads you surely will have.

Torque wrenches (if treated properly) are no more prone to going out of cal than anything else.

The first time, at the original manufacturing date it may be a proper torque value (41 ft-lb), but subsequent loosening and tightening exercises will adversely affect the threads inside the aluminum and in my opinion will cause the threads to eventually strip out.

Again, if you have enough grip length then the specified torque can be applied hundreds of times with no damage to the threads. What you're suggesting is that after the first installation you should reduce torque? Okay, to what value? Half? Two thirds? And do you keep reducing it every time you run a torque cycle on it? Do you realize how ridiculous what you're suggesting is?

Secondly, the socket head cap screws are tightening down the top bridge which in turn is holding the handlebars, so anything gained by an extra few degrees of turning the screws to attain the noted torque value will gain very little in the force being applied directly to the handlebars but greatly increase the possibility of a failure of the threads in the risers.

Wrong.

Lastly, and equally important in the discussion question is the introduction of lubrication of the threads with something such as an anti-seize compound.  Lubrication will absolutely alter the torque specifications and could also be a reason to be more cautious when applying the stated torque values.

Might be the only correct thing in all of this. Lubricating fasteners does require that you take it into account UNLESS the manual states that the fastener is to be lubricated or coated with anti-seize. Then the value is factored into the torque in which case if you do NOT lube it you're probably under torquing it if you use the specified torque values.

Steel nuts which are generally grade eight or greater and steel threads have a greater ability to withstand over-torquing. Aluminum does not posses the same ability and assuming you can stretch a grade eight socket head cap screw which is threaded into aluminum threads, to me, is dangerous ground.

Steel fasteners of any ilk (nut, bolt) are NOT generally grade 8 or higher. Grade 8 is expensive and only used where strictly necessary. And I don't see where anyone said you can "assume" you can stretch a grade 8 socket head cap screw.

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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.

1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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