Tools For Fools

[DarkMeister]

This may be a 'type of oil' thread, but what do people wrench with?  Been shopping and researching tools since my last cordless drill busted and, as usual, trying to stay away from "Made in China". Milwaukee, Makita, some DeWalt - China. Bosch - Switzerland or Malaysia. Some DeWalt, Mexico. Which is OK; ABC; Anything But China.
This summer I did a fair bit of work to the bike and built a big deck from scratch, using crappy tools. One thing I learned is that I totally must get an impact driver! (Or wrench?) along with drill.
Currently considering:
Bosch 18V combo
DeWalt 18V Li-oN
DeWalt new line of 20V drills/drivers.
Maybe some lower-power impacts for average nuts & bolts?
Also, still debating whether the drill should have the hammer option. Not planing any concrete drilling, but may be good to have if needed.
Any thoughts/experience?

[sugerbear]

i have the dewalt 12 volt drill and impact. really like them. the 20 volt should be outstanding.

[da prez]

 Try the made in America store . I do not know, but it is worth a try.

                                                                                              da prez

[hubcapsc]

I built the framed up part of my barn using my neighbor's (loud) generator and my regular circular saw...

I built the rest of it (all the roof) with a 36-volt DeWalt saw... with good battery management (recharge both at lunch) you
can work all day... my test of whether or not to keep it was - I brought it  home and resawed a 16 foot long
treated 2x4 into two 1x4s... it cuts and notches treated 6x6s with no trouble... the last 18 volt circular saw I used seemed
underpowered and dangerous for anything other than the most wimply of jobs...



-Mike

[R J]

I think this is the one I bought for my son's birthday.

DeWalt new line of 20V drills/drivers.

I think he would kill if someone borrowed it, and either broke it or never returned it.

He uses it in the shop all the time.

4 weeks ago, he took it to the lake to help his buddy build a deck on their lake property.

His buddy asked him where he got it and he said talk to dad, that was a gift.  Later that day Brad called and asked if I would adopt him, he wanted one of those gizmo's I gave Rex for his birthday.

He said something about he had a impact that would only take the lag bolts in about 1/2 way and then stumble till it was in place.

He said the first lag he hit with this unit almost twisted it out of his hand when it seated.     Battery life isn't worth a sheet, unless ya do it the way the manual says, don't ask how I know that, and another thing them firkin batteries are high priced.

[The Anvil]

I'm unclear on the ABC part of this. If you're gonna try and buy American then buy American. Yeah China sucks, but so does Mexico. The Mexican government does nothing to help us in the arenas of drug interdiction and immigration. In fact they intentionally HINDER us in most cases. The Mexican government can maintain the status quo because the US is their safety valve that releases the kind of excess pressure that forces real change. Don't give Mexico a pass.

I give a few countries a pass (mostly Canada and a few European nations) but not Mexico. They haven't earned any exceptions.

[Chiefy]

I've always had great success with DeWalt and Milwaukee power tools.  For around the home, I've never needed an impact drill.  A good masonry bit at the correct speed makes short work of ANY hole I ever put in a slab or block.  Pressure concrete, like a bank vault, well an impact comes in MIGHTY handy there.

A few years ago I needed a saws all.  Didn't want to spend the money on Milwaukee.  Bought one made by "Ridged."  Man, I put that poor thing through hell.  You'd never know it.  I'd put it up against any brand.  Next power tool I buy I'm going to look reaal close again at Ridged.

[The Anvil]

I've always had great success with DeWalt and Milwaukee power tools.  For around the home, I've never needed an impact drill.  A good masonry bit at the correct speed makes short work of ANY hole I ever put in a slab or block.  Pressure concrete, like a bank vault, well an impact comes in MIGHTY handy there.

A few years ago I needed a saws all.  Didn't want to spend the money on Milwaukee.  Bought one made by "Ridged."  Man, I put that poor thing through hell.  You'd never know it.  I'd put it up against any brand.  Next power tool I buy I'm going to look reaal close again at Ridged.

Rigid's US made industrial line is about as good as a power tool gets but they (like Dewalt and Milwaukee) also have a bix-box line that's made elsewhere and uses a lot of plastic parts where the pro quality stuff uses metal so just remember to look closely at what you're getting.

Hilti is also a great tool (the BEST IMO) if you're looking at drills, rotary hammers and hammer-drills. But you're gonna pay...

[DarkMeister]

Anvil, my stance is not so much political (some) but more so from quality-control aspect. Perhaps different companies have varying degrees of quality control, even in China, but generally the stuff made there scares me. Thus ABC.

A tradesman I know just switched to Ridgid; all his portable tools. Something about lifetime battery warranties. Also made in China, but not as pricey as Milwaukee or Makita.

Re: impacts. Seems that people who have them swear by them. They drive screws all day long with no effort, no stripping of screws. Adapters are available to make them a wrench, as well.
I screwed my whole deck using a corded drill. PITA. By the time I got to the railing, I had an 18V drill (now passed away, the poor thing). That was a bit better (no cord). However, it seems an impact would have left the drill in the dust.

[shortleg]

  I hung three doors useing a Malwakie 12 volt hammer drill.
It drove some very long screws with no trouble.
            Shortleg[Dave]

[DarkMeister]

Anyone use Bosch? Speaking of which, there is a tool dealer I found on line who has good deals on DeWalt and Bosch. This one stumped me - he has a hammer-drill drill kit:
18V Litheon Brute Tough™ Hammer Drill Driver - 17618  for 369.00
Lo and behold, in his combo-kits, he has the very same drill PLUS an 18V impact - for 299.00.
(Both include FAT batteries/charger)
 

[The Anvil]

This may be a 'type of oil' thread, but what do people wrench with?  Been shopping and researching tools since my last cordless drill busted and, as usual, trying to stay away from "Made in China". Milwaukee, Makita, some DeWalt - China. Bosch - Switzerland or Malaysia. Some DeWalt, Mexico. Which is OK; ABC; Anything But China.
This summer I did a fair bit of work to the bike and built a big deck from scratch, using crappy tools. One thing I learned is that I totally must get an impact driver! (Or wrench?) along with drill.
Currently considering:

Yet, this group flocks to harbor freight and buys their chinese crap.  All of it is crap.  Hand tools, welders, lifts, ramps, everything.  You can judge a man by the tools he owns.

I buy Harbor Freight's Chinese crap all the time but that's because I need to modify tools a lot. I'd rather grind down and then weld a wrench from a 20 dollar HF set than a 150 dollar Craftsman set, especially since I might only use it once.

[hubcapsc]

By the time I got to the railing, I had an 18V drill (now passed away, the poor thing).

I got a Hitachi 18v drill... when I was looking at drills, I wondered why it was so expensive...
looking for differences (besides "Contractor Grade" printed on the box   ) I found that its
battery was rated for more amp hours than the other ones I was looking at... I wish I had it
here to look at, or could remember the numbers, but more amp-hours = more better... longer
time between charges... it really goes and goes and puts lots of three inch screws into treated
yellow pine between charges...

-Mike "nothing magic about Hitachi, just amp-hours..."

[jer0177]

This may be a 'type of oil' thread, but what do people wrench with?   Been shopping and researching tools since my last cordless drill busted and, as usual, trying to stay away from "Made in China". Milwaukee, Makita, some DeWalt - China. Bosch - Switzerland or Malaysia. Some DeWalt, Mexico. Which is OK; ABC; Anything But China.
This summer I did a fair bit of work to the bike and built a big deck from scratch, using crappy tools. One thing I learned is that I totally must get an impact driver! (Or wrench?) along with drill.
Currently considering:

Yet, this group flocks to harbor freight and buys their chinese crap.  All of it is crap.  Hand tools, welders, lifts, ramps, everything.  You can judge a man by the tools he owns.

I've got a HF tool chest, but it's filled with Craftsman or Great Neck tools (Used to work at a parts store and all my 'prizes' were gift cards to that store).  The tool chest is the bigger rolling one, I have both the bottom and the top boxes, and they're as well made as the craftsman ones you'd get at sears.  Ball-bearing drawers, locking mechanisms, everything.

[KSDragonRider]

I have had a porter cable 18 volt set for 2 years now.  Have not had a problem with any of them, them through the mud, left them in the rain, charge the battery and away they go again.

(i did not mean to leave it in the rain mind you, i thought is was put up)

i will never by a craftsman again, and my friends with dewalt are putting 2 to 3 clutches in their drills during its lifetime.

[MarkT]

Where I buy it depends on the use I plan for it.  Yeah I buy Harbor Freight crap, but not power tools anymore.  Plenty of experience at that, and I wouldn't use their "Chicago Electric" POS line of crap for boat anchors.  Consider most electric tools at HF as disposable.  You'll find similar crap at stores like Pep Boys.  Might have a name like Kawasaki or Coleman on it, but there's a reason that drill is only $29.95. All of those are from China too, have no torque and no durability.  When I need quality it's DeWalt or Milwaukee for most hand power tools.  The Dewalt 18v cordless drills have enough torque to break your arm if you don't hang onto them tight.  Milwaukee because there's a factory repair center here in Denver.  Welding equip - Lincoln.  Though I bought my acetylene torch set at HF, works fine.  I've had my Milw. angle grinders rebuilt several times - I exceed their design duty cycle in some of my work stations.  But when I need a hammer or other simple hand tool - it's often worthwhile to buy the junk.  I easily have over $50,000 in tools in the shop - if they were all Snap-On or Craftsman or even Home Depot's house brand, it would be well into 6 figures - or I'd have a lot fewer tools.  BTW, most products you buy are made in China - even the good crap.  It's who they made it for, what the product and quality requirements were, that drives the quality.  I have a Craftsman power washer - I bought it at Costco, paid almost $200 for it - it's quite durable, has lots of options including soap dispenser; I expect it to last a while.  Made in China.  I had a HF power washer, I paid half that for.  Bought one for my Dad too - both of them POS's, both of them failed in normal use.  Same for a half dozen relatively cheap cordless Chicago Electric drills - ALL of them fell apart, have practically no torque and are completely worthless.  On the other hand, I have a lot of Central Pneumatic (HF) air tools.  Buy the ones they call "Professional" - cost half of Craftsmen's line of air tools, have more torque and are more durable over time.  I got my compressor at H-F - however it's not Chinese, it's American (Campbell-Hausfeld) and lasted over 10 years before I had to replace the pump because I didn't keep a close eye on the oil level - same line is sold at both Home Depot and Lowe's.  Bought my small trailer kit at H-F for $400 - works well.  Same for my little garden trailer.  The point is - be selective, some H-F stuff is OK. Without considering political reasons, that's another story. Two sizes of bench belt sanders, a floor mount bandsaw, a wet/dry bench grinder, a hydraulic tube bender, several hydraulic bottle jacks (don't get them wet) a brake bleeder, most of the air tools, and pretty much all of the simple hand tools, have not failed in use.  All of the hand-held electric tools, especially the battery ones, are junk.   BTW, a lot of manufacturing is coming back to the US.  It seems there's a shortage of workers in China now, with their "1 child per family" plan.

[ptgb]

My high dollar stuff is Milwaukee - corded drill (20 years old), corded Sawszall (15 years old) all other little used power tools... corded, but a hodgepodge of brands.

The only thing I have in cordless is drills, I just buy Craftsman stuff when it's on super sale, right around the holidays. Figure, because of batteries, that most of the cordless stuff becomes useless within a year or two. If I want something that will last 30 years... I will buy corded power tools.

For hand tools... Craftsman, for the warranty, the price/quality ratio, and you can't spit without hitting a Sears store.

For very little used stuff, picks, files, wire brushes, pry bars, etc.... Harbor Freight... I know what I am getting, but I use them so sparingly, I can't justify spending more than a few bucks on them.

[MNBill]

I have the 18 volt Dewalt set, both lithuim and standard batteries, Impact driver, drill and 1/2 inch impact wrench (more torque than the 3/8 and adaptors are cheap). At the local tool store they have specials where you get $100 off for trading in your cheap crap towards a set of Dewalt or Milwaukee, it alternates. I take my Dewalt to the tool store and they fix them when my abuse results in broken parts. Again watch closely where and what you buy, I had two sawsalls one was the commercial line and the other the chain store crap. I think if you stay with the commercial line, go to a real dealer you can not go wrong with either the Dewalt or Milwaukee.

[The Anvil]

Indeed. If you want pro-line stuff you might need to go to an independent tool dealer. Some of the big box stores don't even offer pro-line tools.

[Gavin_Sons]

Go to your local home depot and buy rigid. My dad is a contractor and has gone through 4 dewalts to his 1 rigid. They are a little heavier but well worth the extra weight for the dependability. He even dropped it 40 feet out of a lift, bounced 3 times and i picked it up and still drove screws. Had a little cosmetic damage but still worked. My vote is for rigid all the way.

[old2soon]

My H F m/c lift has not given me any trouble what soever.(the bright yellow one) I do not make a living with my tools but you will find a mix of Sears Craftsman Sherman Clove and others i can't remember the names of right now. I get a lot of fill in the holes tools from garage sales and flea markets now. At this point in my life and with only myself to keep happy in the shop-thats exzactly what i do-keep me happy. My power tools are all corded and bought well before the chinese stuff took over. That right there ought to tell you something. I am not set up for welding or heavy machining. On the other hand if i hit the lottery that will change. RIDE SAFE.

[YoungPUP]

Bought my 18v Porter cable set 2 yrs back when my Crapsman drill died. Was looking at Dewalt, when the tool guy at homedepot put the porter cable next to the dewalt. Too many similiarities, so when I asked, he explained that they are made side by side , same factory. Love my porter cable. Been through some abuse in the crawl space under my house. MUD, WATER. 

[da prez]

  Just before I got retired . I bought an Ingersol Rand 1/2 inch impact to replace my 20 year old model. I tried it after setting it up. I always send in warranty cards. To my amazement.made in china. I actually called I R and asked w t h is going on. We have to be price competetive with other brands.  B S, I thought I was buying a quality tool. The price was not reduced, only quality.

                                                              da prez
                                                                     

[highcountry]

It depends how much you are planning to use your power tools.  About 20 yrs ago, I bought a very nice DeWalt 12v drill which came with two batteries (14v was the most powerful at that time).  The batteries lasted about 4 yrs and I went to pick up another set.  Holy crap!  They were $70 each.  So I bought one and it lasted another 4 yrs.  Then the batteries were $90 each.  I had gotten a flyer from HF and they had a 18v drill with one battery for $18.  So I bought it instead of the batteries figuring that it would last about year then I would pick up another one.  I used it about 7 yrs on the same battery then gave it to my son who had it a few yrs before it was stolen.  Understand that I only used it for light duty as I have a full complement of air tools and an 80 gal compressor for heavy duty work.  I replaced the HF drill with a Riyobi combo pack, again for household light duty work.  The batteries are about
$65 for a twinpack and last about 6 yrs.

For me, it is all about the batteries and how much you will use them to justify buying new expensive batteries periodically.

YMMV

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Porter Cable is my cordless drill/driver of choice. Both at work and at home. My home drill has been dropped 8' onto cement without any damage at all. The keyless chucks have never needed repaired even when used hard and daily in an industrial maintenance shop. Some of my 19.2V batteries are probably 5 years old and still hold a good charge. The wife bought herself a 12V Bosch hammer drill/driver. It's loud, but it's lightweight (unlike my porter cables) and doesn't strip screws, even the worthless Philips head construction screws. It has a built in light too.

As far as metal cutting band-saws which don't use coolant, I've got a Jet both at work and at home. No problems with either, they came from Menard's and weren't too pricy.

Ratcheting wrenches are one of the best tools out there. I've got the straight handled type from NAPA at work. Just turn them over to reverse. They have a no-bull life time warranty. I broke one in 3/4" by dropping it from a ladder a long way. Exchange took only minutes and no paper work.

I have the bent-neck type at home which reverse with a lever. Not as good as the straight neck. You will sometimes bump the lever into the work and inadvertently reverse your wrench.

Craftsman socket sets in the cases which hold everything in it's place so you can see if you left anything out are great. The sets with the large laser etched sizes are easy to see.

The best screwdriver sets out there come from Browenells, the gunsmithing warehouse. They are expensive but they are well made and well heat treated. The straight bits are hollow ground and won't mar screw heads.

The cheap Harbor Freight auto darkening welding hoods rock. I've used one almost daily at work for years now and just bought one for home. Get the one with the adjustable shades and the grinder setting.

Craftsman combination wrenches rock as far as I'm concerned. I use the large size box end type constantly at work for bending round stock, heated or not. And I've put 3' cheater bars on them many times. Also cut them in half, heat them and bend them. Whatever it takes when you need a special purpose tool. They seldom break no matter how you abuse them and are warrantied if you haven't cut them, welded them or heated and bent them.

Circular saws with the red laser indicator line are great. Makes it easy to see if you are square with your cut line when starting a cut.

In case you can't tell, I've made my living with tools for close to 40 years and have some very strong opinions about them.

[¿spoom]

For cordless drills, I've had great luck with DeWalt. I use 'em daily and have three 18v 1/2 ones. Personally I'd avoid the Lithium Ion ones. Love the lightweight drill/battery DCD760 combo but it's only good if you always have the spare battery on the charger and steps away. They don't hold a charge worth poop, and since there's virtually no warning when they go from fine to nothing (all Li, not just DeWalt) a short life is a real annoyance if you're doing more than a few pioot holes or screws at a time. If you're just going with one drill and REAL work like holesaws & lag bolts I'd stick with the 18v XRP batteries and deal with all the extra weight.

[Russell Rice]

I use cordless drills and cordless impacts everyday for work. I have had at least 4 De Walt cordless drills & Impacts and I do not like them at all. They can not hold up to the work I use them for. A few years ago De Walt was the cordless drills to buy but now there just JUNK. They went from metal gears and a great lasting drill to plastic gears and now, junk drills.
I use a Mikita impact,hammer drill and a sawzall. I buy the 18 volt 3.5 amp battery. It is hard to say how long a battery will last, it all depends on how you use the drill. I can drill 3 7/8" holes through 1/2" steel plate and I need a battery. Speaking of battery's a Battery will run you a little over a $100 bucks for just about any re-placement battery. I have dropped my hammer drill from 40' and picked it up and it worked just fine. I have dropped my impact in a pond and fished it out and it too worked just fine.
Just my 2 cents

[Valkahuna]

Bought my 18v Porter cable set 2 yrs back when my Crapsman drill died. Was looking at Dewalt, when the tool guy at homedepot put the porter cable next to the dewalt. Too many similiarities, so when I asked, he explained that they are made side by side , same factory. Love my porter cable. Been through some abuse in the crawl space under my house. MUD, WATER.  

I think that Black & Decker bought Porter Cable, DeWalt, and make the Crapsman power tools as well.
Vheck it out!  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Black_%26_Decker#Black_.26_Decker_Subsidiaries_absorbed_as_part_of_2010_merger

I use Milwaukee, Lithium. Never lets me down.

[9Ball]

Hitachi and Makita have both served me well...The Makita is 14 years old and I just found and bought two replacement batteries for it that cost almost as much as a new drill, but they just don't make any as nice as the one I have so it should be good for another 15 years or so.....built a lot of fences and decks with the little Makita and it always drove 3" deck screws into pressure treated wood with ease.  It fits my hand like a glove and is so well balanced and fits itno the tightest areas.

Buy the best you can afford is the only advice....

[Ricky-D]

You can buy a lot of good extension cords for what a couple of replacement batteries will cost.

Most times a battery sitting idle will discharge itself to zero. How long that will take depends upon a lot of factors.

I think most all batteries still have that memory characteristic where they lose their work ability, mostly due to the way they are employed by the occasional call to action.  "Have to charge that bitch before I can use it"!

That's been my experience and I have always like the way a corded tool is always ready and outlets are always available somewhere nearby. Extension cords always help.

My friend Dave, who depends upon battery powered tools for his living has an inverter tied to his truck battery to be able to keep charging his batteries. I tell him that setup is very inefficient. Whenever he looks to buying a new tool his main concern is the extra battery that will come with the kit. If fact he finds it more beneficial to buy new tools with the extra battery included than just purchasing new batteries which he says, and as previously stated here on this thread, are obscenely priced.

***

[The Anvil]

outlets are always available somewhere nearby.

You've never had to fix an airplane a mile away from any power source, have you?

You can't beat corded tools for certain things but they're just not practical or even possible in some places. Also, there's a safe limit to how much extension cord you can employ before running the risk of starting a fire or getting into really heavy gauges.

[BradValk48237]

Hate to say it, but I have had great luck with the Ryobi +1 system... The impact driver has built several decks and steady work since I got it more than 6 years ago (part time General Contractor here).... The batteries ( i have amassed 8 in total) have held up well and after using some of them for 6= years are just going to hell. But for the price of single Dewalt or Milwaukee, I have a set of 10 tools that have held up well. You can usually get a tool, battery and possible a charger for little more than a price of a single battery. For example, the new lithium batteries are like $80, but for $129 you get the charger, battery and drill..... Usually around Xmas they go on sale. And the old batteries work with the new tools and vice versa...... Plus I have one type of battery for all the tools and several chargers. I do use a corded Hammer drill and Sawzall for bigger jobs.. no battery will hold up long for alot of heavy work.

I will keep going with them... And yes, I use the impact driver 90% of the time and because of it I hardly drive a nail because it is so easy to drive a screw.....

B

[PharmBoy]

Read the fine print.  I found that the Bosch Lithium Ion tools have more troque than all the others volt per volt.  Have been very satisfied with their 18-V Drill-Driver for nearly a year now...Jim

[musclehead]

I'm unclear on the ABC part of this. If you're gonna try and buy American then buy American. Yeah China sucks, but so does Mexico. The Mexican government does nothing to help us in the arenas of drug interdiction and immigration. In fact they intentionally HINDER us in most cases. The Mexican government can maintain the status quo because the US is their safety valve that releases the kind of excess pressure that forces real change. Don't give Mexico a pass.

I give a few countries a pass (mostly Canada and a few European nations) but not Mexico. They haven't earned any exceptions.

wow I kinda agree with Anvil 

[DarkMeister]

and the winner is....

Thanks for all the input. Lazy man's way to learn a lot in one easy swoop. It was down to Bosch and DeWalt, in the end. Blundered into H-Depot today to get some plumbing stuff and wandered over to tools. The set I've been drooling for, as it turns out, was listed incorrectly (higher than actual $) AND most tools were 20% off. Scooped it up for 300 bucks.
It's the new 20V DeWalt set DCK290L2, with hammer-drill and impact driver, with the larger (3Amh) batteries.
Woo-hoo!  Now I get to shop for bits and such, but particularly I want to the adapter that converts the impact into a socket driver.