Economic Inequality discussion on PBS

[F6Mark]

I saw this Friday evening, I've seen a couple of Paul Solmans interviews on "understanding the economy".  I'd like to spend an hour or 2 asking questions to this guy (the professor he is interviewing)
Referring to the hue and cry about billionaires being under taxed, that the benefit these peopel and their companies provide to society is much greater than the cost of their salaries and golden parachutes, etc.
And he said the death tax should be completely abolished.

Listen to this clip about economic inequality at the PBS page. 
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/makingsense/

[Willow]

It's shocking to see that interview on  a PBS site, although I must admit I haven't paid attention to PBS for as long, long time.

What almost amuses me is the terms they use.  They say wealthy Americans are under taxed with the natural implication being that they are taxed less than unwealthy Americans.  In truth their tax rate is much higher, but just not as high as some want it.

Tax equality to me would mean the same tax rate across the board.  I guess I'm an advocate of a fair tax rather than a tax system in which those who benefit the most from the government consistently pay the least or nothing to support it.   

[The Anvil]

It's shocking to see that interview on  a PBS site, although I must admit I haven't paid attention to PBS for as long, long time.

What almost amuses me is the terms they use.  They say wealthy Americans are under taxed with the natural implication being that they are taxed less than unwealthy Americans.  In truth their tax rate is much higher, but just not as high as some want it.

Sorry Willow, but I have to take issue with this. For one thing, it depends on HOW the person makes their money and as with corporate taxation the deduction structure and loophole problems being what they are make it possible to avoid a large, large chunk of taxes. So again, the theoretical rates and what people actually end up paying are often very different.

[Jess from VA]

I'll like PBS much more when the Public part goes away..... no more federal tax dollars for consistently left-of-center PBS.... either TV or radio.

[Willow]

Sorry Willow, but I have to take issue with this. For one thing, it depends on HOW the person makes their money and as with corporate taxation the deduction structure and loophole problems being what they are make it possible to avoid a large, large chunk of taxes. So again, the theoretical rates and what people actually end up paying are often very different. 

Not a surprise, Anvil.  My position is that you're entitled to your opinion no matter how erroneous it may be.

As to corporate taxes, what's laughable is that people calling for higher corporate taxes don't seem to understand who it is that pays those taxes.  Corporations ultimately have only one source of income and that is people like you and me who buy their goods and services.

As to loopholes, I'm against them on both ends of the tax structure.  The problem is a difficulty in reaching agreement on what's a loophole and what's a legitimate incentive.  I'm very strongly opposed to giving anyone a tax credit for tax he or she didn't pay.

I'm okay with our agreeing to disagree on these issues.  I don't see any hope of my changing your heart and you surely hold no chance of changing mine.      

[The Anvil]

Not a surprise, Anvil.  My position is that you're entitled to your opinion no matter how erroneous it may be.

And I as well. It's America and you're free to be wrong. 

As to corporate taxes, what's laughable is that people calling for higher corporate taxes don't seem to understand who it is that pays those taxes.  Corporations ultimately have only one source of income and that is people like you and me who buy their goods and services.

I know, it's the "tax collector" argument. But it doesn't really work that way in a competitive environment. Unless you have an effective monopoly on a product or service the taxes will come out of profits, not be passed on to the consumer in any significant fashion because competition for the dollar will ensure that cost to the consumer is driven by competition from other providers of those goods and services. Overhead is only one of several components that determines how much something costs a consumer and it's not necessarily even the largest determining factor.

Look at clothing. It's often marked up 50% over cost even in discount stores. In boutiques it's usually many hundreds of percent over cost. Why? Because there are dumb people who will pay 1100 dollars for a purse that costs 22 dollars to manufacture.

The biggest single factor determining the cost to the consumer of a product or service is what the market will bear. That is not even a matter of opinion; it's fact.

As to loopholes, I'm against them on both ends of the tax structure.  The problem is a difficulty in reaching agreement on what's a loophole and what's a legitimate incentive.  I'm very strongly opposed to giving anyone a tax credit for tax he or she didn't pay.

We can agree on that much.

I'm okay with our agreeing to disagree on these issues.  I don't see any hope of my changing your heart and you surely hold no chance of changing mine.      

No probably not.

[BigAl]

Bottom 50% or so get it all back.. No Tax.

Top 1% pay their share.

Middle Class gets hosed.

For sure.

Flat tax is fair.

Only way to go for this country,,,,,,,,,,, that can't control the spending habits they have,,,,,,, with our money.

[Chrisj CMA]

Bottom 50% or so get it all back.. No Tax.

Top 1% pay their share.

Middle Class gets hosed.

For sure.

Flat tax is fair.

Only way to go for this country,,,,,,,,,,, that can't control the spending habits they have,,,,,,, with our money.

No one (and I fell into that group a couple times) should pay NO TAX.  Make a little pay a little.  Make a lot pay a lot.........

The real problem though is the size (over-sized) of the Federal Government.  What they think their job is, and how much they think is ok to spend. 

[Jeff K]

The 47% that pay nothing will never vote to allow that to come to an end. They will only vote for a flat tax if it only applies to the 53%.

[The Anvil]

The 47% that pay nothing will never vote to allow that to come to an end. They will only vote for a flat tax if it only applies to the 53%.

53 is greater than 47.

[scoot]

[
[/quote]

No one (and I fell into that group a couple times) should pay NO TAX.  Make a little pay a little.  Make a lot pay a lot.........

The real problem though is the size (over-sized) of the Federal Government.  What they think their job is, and how much they think is ok to spend. 
[/quote]

 Its funny, I don't usually agree with you on things, I think you hit the nail (Politician) on the head here. I don't mind paying taxes, let's face it its part of life. What I don't care for is someone that doesn't work, has 12 kids (that I'm also supporting) turning around and filing taxes and because of this credit and that credit recieving a 5 or 6 thousand dollar refund.
 Government is way too big. Give them all the boot. We'd be better off.

[Chrisj CMA]

[

No one (and I fell into that group a couple times) should pay NO TAX.  Make a little pay a little.  Make a lot pay a lot.........

The real problem though is the size (over-sized) of the Federal Government.  What they think their job is, and how much they think is ok to spend. 
[/quote]

 Its funny, I don't usually agree with you on things, I think you hit the nail (Politician) on the head here. I don't mind paying taxes, let's face it its part of life. What I don't care for is someone that doesn't work, has 12 kids (that I'm also supporting) turning around and filing taxes and because of this credit and that credit recieving a 5 or 6 thousand dollar refund.
 Government is way too big. Give them all the boot. We'd be better off.
[/quote]
Thanks......I think 

[musclehead]

It's shocking to see that interview on  a PBS site, although I must admit I haven't paid attention to PBS for as long, long time.

What almost amuses me is the terms they use.  They say wealthy Americans are under taxed with the natural implication being that they are taxed less than unwealthy Americans.  In truth their tax rate is much higher, but just not as high as some want it.

Sorry Willow, but I have to take issue with this. For one thing, it depends on HOW the person makes their money and as with corporate taxation the deduction structure and loophole problems being what they are make it possible to avoid a large, large chunk of taxes. So again, the theoretical rates and what people actually end up paying are often very different.

we do agree that the tax system is extremely screwy. company 'a' can go to lobbyist 'b' with huge sums of cash to ply and co-opt politician 'c'. politician 'c' writes legislation to restrict the competition of company 'a'. and viola' free markets? not so much 

loop holes, written by both sides of the 'ruling class' are by their very nature for the big companies to take advantage of every single deduction their accountants can scrape together. there will be huge opposition to changing the status quo, but change can be good sometimes. even a fundemental change to the 77,000 page tax code I'm thinking 'bonfire' and kegger

[Jeff K]

The 47% that pay nothing will never vote to allow that to come to an end. They will only vote for a flat tax if it only applies to the 53%.

53 is greater than 47.

Unfortunately some of the 53% will vote to give the 47% more free things.

[RoadKill]

The largest entitlement program out there is the federal Govt. it's self! Get congress off welfare and make the rest of the welfare recipients pee in a cup for the 2 years they are eligible and taxes wont be near as big an issue. 

[Tropic traveler]

A couple of thoughts here.
As far as "inequality of income", I believe that if the gov't confiscated all wealth in this country & redistributed it equally to all citizens, within 5 years the same people would be rich & the same would be poor again.
It's just human nature. Equalization of income has been tried before & I think we all know the results of that. Not saying there are not lots of things {starting with the tax code} that can't be changed for the better but the current left way is a tried & true losing path.
We have the highest standard of living on the earth & it didn't happen because we taxed our way to it.