Starting issues

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, had my '99 Standard for about 2 yrs now. PO had the bike sit up for about 2-1/2 yrs in a shed with a cover on it and the S Texas humidity didn't help any.
 
Besides the normal carb fouling problems I've had a bunch of aftermarket electrical connection corrosion issues.
I've also had the normal "Valkyrie idiosyncrisies" issues like needing to have the choke "all" the way down and a good battery (9 volts to the ignition) for starting.
And after chipping away at these problems - carbs cleaned, electrical connections cleaned/replaced, new battery and a Wal-mart battery maintainer which gets plugged in always when the bike is sitting - I thought I got them resolved.
The bike started good.

A few of weeks ago the weather got real cold here, down to like 60, and the bike didn't want to start. Would crank over but not start.  I was just about to give up when it fired up.  And then it started good for the rest of the day. Rode it a few times since with absolutley no problems.

Yesterday, unfortunately, I got called to work and thought "Pretty day, I'll take the bike".
The bike, again, would turn over but not start. Pi$$d, I took the truck and 4 hours later when I got back home I was going to check what the problem is, hit the starter and it fired up like normal!! WTH!!!

Here's what I know:
The ignition switch is losing contact at least for the lights.  I can wiggle the key and the lights go out, ordered one yesterday.
I always turn the gas valve to the "off" position when through riding. It has the original gas valve and I have read of the issues . How does this work?  Does the engine need to create vacuum to open this valve?
After cranking on it for a bit I smell gas.

Any ideas what could cause the intermitting "no start" condition?

[gordonv]

60' might be cold for you, but not the bike. I ride till it starts getting too wet here, and temps usually are less than 10c (low 50's?). I have also the odd time where the chock isn't good enough. After trying it for about 10 sec, I turn the chock off, and then using 2 hands, apply a little throttle instead.

If you smell gas, then you have more than enough. Turn the chock off. Crank for a few secs, then start with a little throttle.

I've found with my 2 Hondas that you need to "learn" what each one requires to start, in the heat and the cold.

[Michvalk]

I have ridden all the way down to 28 degrees. My bike has never failed to start in cold weather. I have to add some throttle even with the choke on in order to start. If you can smell gas, you are leaking somewhere, OR your flooding the engine. Try setting the choke and adding just a little throttle when trying to start. Release the throttle after it starts. This is what works on my Interstate.YMMV

[Ricky-D]

I don't subscribe to the oft mentioned starting procedure of: choke on, no throttle.

My Interstate has never failed me in the starting process.

Choke on and as I hit the starter button I blip the throttle for an instant. That's all!

It has always started even on the coldest days.

I always run premium non-ethanol gasoline.

***

[R J]

My bike sets in an outside garage all winter, unheated  unless we are fixing something of mine.      A couple of times when trying to start my snow blower, I have walked over to MGM, turned the gas on, pulled the full choke, and hit the starter.    About the 5th turn she fired and died.  Blipped the throttle, don't ask why, just habit on cars, and hit the starter again, she fired on the 3rd or 4th turn and ran at low RPM, finally got some heat and the R's went up so I pulled off the choke.   Let it set and run till full operating temp.   

The temp outside was 5 BELOW zero.    So, yes, these old girls will fire and run in the winter, or cold.

No MGM is not special, a couple of my buddies Valkyries have started in zero and below weather.

[Ricky-D]

Yep, I agree.

I think most cold weather starting problems can be attributed to poor battery performance. lol

***

[Valkpilot]

Yep, I agree.

I think most cold weather starting problems can be attributed to poor battery performance. lol

***

I think Ricky-D is right.  Look to the battery or other electrical issue.

[MP]

Yep, I agree.

I think most cold weather starting problems can be attributed to poor battery performance. lol

***

I think Ricky-D is right.  Look to the battery or other electrical issue.

I agree, put a new Yousa battery in it. 

MP

[RonW]

.... after chipping away at these problems - carbs cleaned, electrical connections cleaned/replaced, new battery and a Wal-mart battery maintainer which gets plugged in always when the bike is sitting ....

I'm assuming that you did but have you checked the starter-relay? Jump the two copper posts with a screwdriver (bike in neutral, of course), connecting the starter-motor directly to the battery.

[Tx Bohemian]

.... after chipping away at these problems - carbs cleaned, electrical connections cleaned/replaced, new battery and a Wal-mart battery maintainer which gets plugged in always when the bike is sitting ....

I'm assuming that you did but have you checked the starter-relay? Jump the two copper posts with a screwdriver (bike in neutral, of course), connecting the starter-motor directly to the battery.

I haven't done this on the bike but wouldn't that engage the starter? like on a car? If so maybe I didn't explain good enough, the engine cranks over but doesn't start up.
Or am I misunderstanding your suggestion?

[old2soon]

.... after chipping away at these problems - carbs cleaned, electrical connections cleaned/replaced, new battery and a Wal-mart battery maintainer which gets plugged in always when the bike is sitting ....

I'm assuming that you did but have you checked the starter-relay? Jump the two copper posts with a screwdriver (bike in neutral, of course), connecting the starter-motor directly to the battery.

I haven't done this on the bike but wouldn't that engage the starter? like on a car? If so maybe I didn't explain good enough, the engine cranks over but doesn't start up.
Or am I misunderstanding your suggestion?

   These Valkyries of ours are VERY particular about battery condition when it comes to starting. More than one person on this forum has had the problem you are having. Hook up your truck or car with donor battery engine off. Now start it. If it fires right up your new battery is the problem. Try what i just layed out for you and let us know what happened. Thanks and RIDE SAFE.

[PhredValk]

My IS starts with regular gas and half choke at 0ºc (32f). Sometimes a little colder, for driving to work the week before I put her in storage for the winter. My battery delivers 12.5 volts cold before hitting the start button. 9 volts may be your problem.

Talk to the PO about modifications. My understanding is that 4 and 6º trigger wheels make for difficult cold starting, and require hi-test gas. Some other mods could be causing difficulties starting in colder weather; and I wouldn't call 60º 'cold' weather for these bikes.
Fred.

[RonW]

I haven't done this on the bike but wouldn't that engage the starter? like on a car? If so maybe I didn't explain good enough, the engine cranks over but doesn't start up.

Or am I misunderstanding your suggestion?

".... the engine cranks up but doesn't start up" doesn't mean that the starter relay is okay. The relay might not be passing along high enough, the required, amperage on the cable to the starter motor to pack enough wallop to fire up the motor. For testing you want to close the relay's contacts externally (using a screwdriver) because it's impossible to see the condition of the internal ends of the two relay posts. The internal contacts are susceptible to arcing as they open and close due to the momentary high amperage draw of the starter motor which might leave deposits on the internal contacts. The deposits create unwanted resistance. Any point of resistance on a wire creates a voltage drop, and so forth. If faulty internal contacts are pocketing 2 volts only 10 volts are passed on to the starter motor. That said, starter relays are almost bullet proof. So as an unlikely culprit, a screwdriver substitutes well enough in place of a voltmeter. The problem might be even a loose nut on the relay post. If it was easy to push start the Valk, then if it fires up, then it would indicate a problem related to the starter-relay or the starter motor itself.

[Mr Bojangles]

If the switch is losing contact to the lights, perhaps it is also losing contact to the coils or ECU as well. You may have already found your problem. I live in Texas, but when in Upper Michigan this summer, it only required choke on the first start of the day. I was surprised how well it started.
                                            Bojangles

[Tx Bohemian]

If the switch is losing contact to the lights, perhaps it is also losing contact to the coils or ECU as well. You may have already found your problem.
                                            Bojangles

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning towards this too.

I guess I wasn't clear in my explanation or my feeble attempt at a joke (60 degree Texas weather, believe me I've ridden in below freezing temps more than I want to).

I've been through the battery thing (hence the maintainer) and the choke all the way down thing. For the last year this thing started great once I resolved these issues.  Just in the last few weeks it was hard starting a few times but starts normal most of the time. 
When I replace the ignition switch I'll check the solenoid contacts too like was also suggested.

Thanks guys.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

It sounds to me that your not getting full choke. Put the covers off the carb rails and watch the slides move and see if the choke is working to it's full ability.
    Your problem sounds just like my bike. It's sits outside for a full 12 hr shift and if it is 45 to 50 degrees it may or may not start without the choke. If it colder than that I use the choke until it fires off and then as idle increases I back the choke off. After it been running alittle I don't have to use the choke to start it anymore that day.
 I've ran this bike in 23 degree weather and after starting with choke and it warms up no problems the rest of the day.

[Tx Bohemian]

It sounds to me that your not getting full choke. Put the covers off the carb rails and watch the slides move and see if the choke is working to it's full ability.
    Your problem sounds just like my bike. It's sits outside for a full 12 hr shift and if it is 45 to 50 degrees it may or may not start without the choke. If it colder than that I use the choke until it fires off and then as idle increases I back the choke off. After it been running alittle I don't have to use the choke to start it anymore that day.
 I've ran this bike in 23 degree weather and after starting with choke and it warms up no problems the rest of the day.

I'll check this too, they were working but maybe something got out of wack.

The thing that baffles me is after it wouldn't start and I got back after work 4hrs later, the temp was even a bit cooler, I did the exact routine to start it like always and, I don't think the engine cranked over one revolution, it fired right up!! 

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

It was primed and the battery had time to recover some of it's power. If cranking volt is low (about 10 volts) the starter will crank it over like it should start but the coils won't fire.
    I carry a small set of jumper cables just in case I or somebody else has problems  with low volts.

[Valkpilot]

It sounds to me that your not getting full choke. Put the covers off the carb rails and watch the slides move and see if the choke is working to it's full ability.
    Your problem sounds just like my bike. It's sits outside for a full 12 hr shift and if it is 45 to 50 degrees it may or may not start without the choke. If it colder than that I use the choke until it fires off and then as idle increases I back the choke off. After it been running alittle I don't have to use the choke to start it anymore that day.
 I've ran this bike in 23 degree weather and after starting with choke and it warms up no problems the rest of the day.

I'll check this too, they were working but maybe something got out of wack.

The thing that baffles me is after it wouldn't start and I got back after work 4hrs later, the temp was even a bit cooler, I did the exact routine to start it like always and, I don't think the engine cranked over one revolution, it fired right up!! 

I recommend (again) that you check the battery.  Take it to a shop or auto parts store and have it load tested.  I think you might have a cell that is weak or failing.

I don't know what battery maintainer you used, so this may not be the issue, but the wrong one can cause problems.  Simple trickle chargers will eventually overcharge a battery and ruin it.  A Battery Tender brand or other computerized battery charger that shuts off when full charge is reached then monitors the charge level will not cause problems unless it malfunctions.

[Disco]

The thing that baffles me is after it wouldn't start and I got back after work 4hrs later, the temp was even a bit cooler, I did the exact routine to start it like always and, I don't think the engine cranked over one revolution, it fired right up!!

Three words: Bad Bat Tree.   

Next time it does that, take the drain of the starter out of the mix, and bump start it.  I'll bet it fires right up.   

[Tx Bohemian]

Thanks for all the info guys, will be checking into these things.

As far as the "battery maintainer" it is not a trickle charger.  It's not a "Battery tender" but it is another computerized battery charger that cuts off when charged and monitors the charge.

Anyone know what the warranty is on a bike battery?  Not sure what brand but it is one I bought probably less than a year ago at the Honda dealer. I don't think it is a Yousa.

This is really going to pi$$ me off if the battery is bad this soon.

[R J]

Not being a wise ass, but did you do a proper charge on it at the beginning?

Or did ya just toss it in the bike and take off?

If the later, then you got the full usage of that battery.

[Tx Bohemian]

Not being a wise ass, but did you do a proper charge on it at the beginning?

Or did ya just toss it in the bike and take off?

If the later, then you got the full usage of that battery.

Not sure exactly what sequence (like I said, it's been about a year) but I did buy the maintainer at the same time I bought the new battery.  It seems like I remember thinking it took a long time for the maintainers "green light" (shows fully charged) to come on the first time I plugged it in.  I would say this happened before I rode it.