Leaky fuel rails

[salty1]

I have read a lot of posts regarding carbs and gas loss. As many of these posts point out, there are a number of  reasons why gas leaks out of carbs. One source that is not mentioned very often are leaks associated with the so called fuel joints or rails. I believe a lot of leaks originate here after a bike has been in extended storage, but  24 hours after fuel reaches the O-rings and they are bathed in gas so they swell and the leak(s) often stops in 24hrs or so. This is one of those leaks that will be high and flow over the carbs. These gas joints are relatively easy to see when the tank is off. The reason I am posting this is that in last two weeks I have worked on two different Valks that had this exact problem. The leaks were  around the O rings at the fuel rail between carbs 3 & 5 on both bikes and the joint between 4 & 6 on one.   All the other fuel joints were dry.  

So for a question, how should a AZ stored (less than 3 months) bike be prepared for storage? Obviously dry storage has its issues. All response are much appreciated

[DFragn]

Proper or not.
I don't drain my bowls for winter here in Northern Illinois
2 oz's each of Techron & Blue Stabil in the tank and fuel system.
Once a month I'll pull a vacuum on the petcock to compensate for any evaporation in the carbs, rails & lines.

Only time my rails leaked is when the carb bank sat on the bench for awhile, then I re-installed it. Never replaced the o-rings and they were done dripping the same day.

'97 85k

[Ricky-D]

The premise that the O-rings will swell when exposed to gasoline means to me that the material that the O-rings are made of is wholly inadequate and incorrect.

The stock O-rings are made to be unaffected by gasoline as are any of the components that are exposed to gasoline.

That will then void the requirement expressed, that the fuel system remain in a "wet" condition, while in storage..... This does not mean that I advocate draining the carburetors when the bike is in storage. However, there should be measures taken if "wet storage" is going to be the method used.

A good gasoline stabilizer should be added to the gas tank and then deliberate actions should be taken to insure that there is stabilizer in the same concentration in the gasoline in the carburetors. I think most problems in this area can be attributed to a failure to understand this simple thing.

That is why I suggest, when considering storage of the Valkyrie, to drain the carburetors. There should never be a problem when gassing up at "wake up" time.  I also recommend to leave the drain screws loose for any small amount of gasoline that may eventually trickle down into the float bowl area.

Stabilize the gas in the tank, drain the carburetors and there should never be a problem.

***

[salty1]

"The stock O-rings are made to be unaffected by gasoline as are any of the components that are exposed to gasoline."

However, stock O rings are affected. More than once I have seen this happen even with new OEM rubber. I've stored bikes dry that have fuel rails and they frequently leak gas for a short period when fuel is introduced.

That's why the original question was asked looking for an alternative way to dry carbs. I guess viton seals would be the best solution in the long run.

[Led]

I will start off, that I too, do the "dry" storage of the Bike. Haven't had a problem since I bought it new in 99. But this time I went 18 months with it in storage.

It fired right up like it always did, and ran and idled like the Swiss watch it has always been. I took a quick spin to the gas station for a couple of items.  The Kid that works there was out having a smoke when I pulled up. He came over to admire it, and said that I was leaking gas. A LOT OF GAS!!!  What the heck!!  Honda's aren't supposed to leak gas!

Well I got it back home without turning into a Roman candle.
 
At first I thought I had left the bowl drain screws open. NOPE!  I had installed a new pingle petcock the year before last. NOPE!  All dry.  But fuel pours out somewhere from the very tops of the carbs, and stops immediately when I shut the petcock off. I am HOPING that after a day or two those O-rings will swell back up again. I do NOT relish tearing half the bike apart to fix it!!    

Funny part is, I have owned a lot of other multi carbed Honda's in my life, and have NEVER seen anything like this!!!

[Led]

So.........I went back out about five hours later........and about that many Brews later, to check this out.......

I turned the gas on,  and NOT one drop of gas came out,  that I could see!!!  It just POURED out before, Like the gas line was not even hooked up!!!  So I NEED to ask, ANYBODY!!!!

  Even a Rep from Honda themselves.......WTF!!!  How can this occur?  I have never heard or even seen of such a thing......

THANK YOU SALTY!!!!!!!!!  

 If I had never found your post, I would likely have half the Bike apart already, for nothing!!     What a fricken' weird characteristic, of these bikes!!!!

 ??? ??? ???

Edited to add.......turned the gas back on, no fuel running everywhere, and after over 5 hours sitting.........purred at 500 rpm at idle.........what a BEAUTIFUL machine!!!!     

[salty1]

Glad your fuel rail Orings got swollen as fast as they did after they were bathed in gas.   

[Wewaman]

  I don't know if they actually shrink and then swell, but this I do know that after I re-installed my carbs and got it running I had this very same thing happen.  Gas POURING / GUSHING out of the fuel rail.  After I posted my problem and was asking how hard it would be to replace the O'rings in the fuel rail,  Salty1 (yes you ) replied and suggested that I wait and check now that they had a good "ole gas bath" and lo and behold You were RIGHT in your suggestion.  NO MORE FUEL LEAKS       
Just might be something to it 

Wewaman

[Ricky-D]

So.........I went back out about five hours later........and about that many Brews later, to check this out.......

I turned the gas on,  and NOT one drop of gas came out,  that I could see!!!  It just POURED out before, Like the gas line was not even hooked up!!!  So I NEED to ask, ANYBODY!!!!

  Even a Rep from Honda themselves.......WTF!!!  How can this occur?  I have never heard or even seen of such a thing......

THANK YOU SALTY!!!!!!!!!  

 If I had never found your post, I would likely have half the Bike apart already, for nothing!!     What a fricken' weird characteristic, of these bikes!!!!

 ??? ??? ???

Edited to add.......turned the gas back on, no fuel running everywhere, and after over 5 hours sitting.........purred at 500 rpm at idle.........what a BEAUTIFUL machine!!!!     

Of course you know, this is too low an idle!

***

[Led]

So.........I went back out about five hours later........and about that many Brews later, to check this out.......

I turned the gas on,  and NOT one drop of gas came out,  that I could see!!!  It just POURED out before, Like the gas line was not even hooked up!!!  So I NEED to ask, ANYBODY!!!!

  Even a Rep from Honda themselves.......WTF!!!  How can this occur?  I have never heard or even seen of such a thing......

THANK YOU SALTY!!!!!!!!!  

 If I had never found your post, I would likely have half the Bike apart already, for nothing!!     What a fricken' weird characteristic, of these bikes!!!!

 ??? ??? ???

Edited to add.......turned the gas back on, no fuel running everywhere, and after over 5 hours sitting.........purred at 500 rpm at idle.........what a BEAUTIFUL machine!!!!      

Of course you know, this is too low an idle!

***

I know........it normally idles at about 950 rpm's when fully hot.  I just hit the starter after it had sat for over 5 hours (no enrichener), and She still purred like a Kitten at 500.  I revved it a couple of times and shut Her down again. I just wanted to see if fuel came out from anywhere again......

That only told me (still able to idle that low, without one hiccup) that the carburetion itself, was all still perfect!!!      

I still like the "dry" storage of my bike. Having it run so well after all these years.....I must be doing SOMETHING right????   But this O-ring thing really threw me for a loop. I never had seen such a thing before.

Now THAT begs the question!  How many times can these things shrink and expand, before they won't anymore??    

[rugguy]

I had mine leak after just three months in  storage in Colorado this past winter. It is quite an unsettling experience watching flammable fuel pour down onto your running Valkyrie engine.

Unfortunately, I didn't know I would have it sit idle that long or I would have "winterized" the bike like a boat. Drain the carbs and fuel line, full tank of gas and Stabil. When I cranked it up it after the layoff it leaked, no it poured gas out of the fuel rail O's. I shut her down, trailered her back to Atlanta and tore the carbs down. I replaced all the carb gaskets and O's using Redeye's kits and haven't leaked a drop since. The bike may have only had 24k on her but she is 14 years old.

As far as the O ring quality, and their resulting expansion and contraction, all I can say is if they leaked once...I believe they will leak again. I am no expert on the composition of stock vs replacement O rings, but from what I have read, the Viton GF material that are used in the Redeye kits (and others I'm sure) are more resistant to the Ethanol found in today's fuel. And remember, you only saw the results of the fuel leak.....you can not see if there is leakage in the air rail O's.

For me, I wanted to make sure everything worked like it should. Yes, tearing out the carb bank is a pain...but not impossible for the weekend wrench-turner. Believe it or not the biggest pain in the a** is re-installing the airbox and getting the intake boots on tight (I have a couple of tips on that is anyone ever needs them). But to have all the carbs cleaned and in working order, and without fear of fuel leaks between my legs, it was well worth the investment in time and and little money.

While you are at it, if you are re-doing your carb gasket and O rings highly I recommend that the intake O's are replaced at the same time. I learned the hard way about short cuts there. I was getting an RPM "bounce" or "skip" at idle and a little pop on decel. New intake O's solved that problem completely. Thankfully, you don't have to pull the carb bank to replace those.

Just my two cents on my experiences....

[Super_cruiser]

Thanks rugguy, I think your summation is the best response to this thread.  My fuel rails started leaking ever so slightly at first.  When I went in and poked around with my hands I moved the right and left rails back and forth to realize that there was serious play where the rail connects to the carbs between carbs 3&5, to the point you could hear a "clicking" sound sliding the 'T' back and forth while the play between 4&6 wasn't so bad.  Firing it up after the moving things around a bit revealed gushing leaks at both rails and an end to my chances of going riding.  I moved the bike out of my garage, wiped up the spilled gas on top of the engine and parked the bike in the driveway for the rest of the day.  The bike sat for a few hours in the warm sun while I surfed this forum for answers.  I eventually made an appointment with the local dealership to have the problem further scrutinized.  I even asked them to come and pick up the bike as the leaking was far too dangerous to be riding it.  Later that afternoon being a little curious about all the stories in this forum about the problem fixing itself I fired up the bike.  After sitting in the warm sun for a few hours the gushing had turned into a single drip off the #5 carb every 10 or so seconds.  I'm thanking my lucky stars that the stories are true... The o-rings do swell and actually fix themselves!  I hopped on the bike, hoping for the best, and took it for a short ride stopping every so often to monitor the drip.  It continued to drip at about 1-drop every 10-seconds, not totally fixed but really close.  Got back home and and tried another forum solution of banging on the #5 carb with a rubber hammer to free up the float and viola, no more drip!  Yes this is a long story.  Cut to the chase.  The rails did leak the next morning and I had no choice but to get it to the dealership for repair.  Can anyone guess what the dealership is quoting me for a repair to this problem?

FYI The dealership is Carter Motorsport in Vancouver, BC, Canada eh.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks rugguy, I think your summation is the best response to this thread.  My fuel rails started leaking ever so slightly at first.  When I went in and poked around with my hands I moved the right and left rails back and forth to realize that there was serious play where the rail connects to the carbs between carbs 3&5, to the point you could hear a "clicking" sound sliding the 'T' back and forth while the play between 4&6 wasn't so bad.  Firing it up after the moving things around a bit revealed gushing leaks at both rails and an end to my chances of going riding.  I moved the bike out of my garage, wiped up the spilled gas on top of the engine and parked the bike in the driveway for the rest of the day.  The bike sat for a few hours in the warm sun while I surfed this forum for answers.  I eventually made an appointment with the local dealership to have the problem further scrutinized.  I even asked them to come and pick up the bike as the leaking was far too dangerous to be riding it.  Later that afternoon being a little curious about all the stories in this forum about the problem fixing itself I fired up the bike.  After sitting in the warm sun for a few hours the gushing had turned into a single drip off the #5 carb every 10 or so seconds.  I'm thanking my lucky stars that the stories are true... The o-rings do swell and actually fix themselves!  I hoped on the bike and took it for a short ride stopping every so often to monitor the drip.  It continued to drip at about 1-drop every 10-seconds, not totally fixed but really close.  Got back home and and tried another forum solution of banging on the #5 carb with a rubber hammer to free up the float and viola, no more drip!  Yes this is a long story.  Cut to the chase.  The rails did leak the next morning and I had no choice but to get it to the dealership for repair.  Can anyone guess what the dealership is quoting me for a repair to this problem?

FYI The dealership is Carter Motorsport in Vancouver, BC, Canada eh.

$800 ?

[cajundood]

Hmmm.....I've been having leaky fuel rails for almost two years now!  
I purchased the viton o-ring kit from redeye over a year ago.

I have since inquired numerous times about a procedure on doing this. I would get directed to videos on how to remove the 6-pack structure, videos on how to disassemble carbs for cleaning (which are done with the 6pack intact by the way).....but NOOO procedures on how to do a fuel rail o-ring switchout!!!
Being from south Louisiana, I never have to drain the carbs for winter storage. (I ride year round).
The leak is not very bad and tends to leak more in the wintertime.
Last winter I removed the airbox to do a desmog as well as replace the leaking o-rings & was just about to remove the 6pack when I noticed all of the springs and linkages holding these badboys together.
I then realized, I'd never get this back together correctly.
So now I continue to ride with the leaks present...

Maybe one day someone will do a procedure on this......but none so far as of yet.....

[Ricky-D]

That's some bad luck there!

Most report that the leaks stop after a while of use.

Keep the gas on them, and keep hoping!

***

[rugguy]

There is a VERY detailed set of procedures with pictures in the Clymer manual. But if you aren't good at wrenching, or are intimidated by the "springs and linkages", I would suggest that you have a shop do it. However, if you take your time, follow the manual and don't rush, you can probably do the entire thing in one day...the first time. The second time will be much less.

And while you have the carb bank out, go ahead an replace the intake "O" rings too. Adds less than one hour to the job. But if your fuel rail "O"s are leaking, your intake "O"s aren't far behind. Can eliminate skip at idle and popping on decel. And a new air filter too.

But either way I D**N sure wouldn't ride it leaking.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hmmm.....I've been having leaky fuel rails for almost two years now!  
I purchased the viton o-ring kit from redeye over a year ago.

I have since inquired numerous times about a procedure on doing this. I would get directed to videos on how to remove the 6-pack structure, videos on how to disassemble carbs for cleaning (which are done with the 6pack intact by the way).....but NOOO procedures on how to do a fuel rail o-ring switchout!!!
Being from south Louisiana, I never have to drain the carbs for winter storage. (I ride year round).
The leak is not very bad and tends to leak more in the wintertime.
Last winter I removed the airbox to do a desmog as well as replace the leaking o-rings & was just about to remove the 6pack when I noticed all of the springs and linkages holding these badboys together.
I then realized, I'd never get this back together correctly.
So now I continue to ride with the leaks present...

Maybe one day someone will do a procedure on this......but none so far as of yet.....

I think I would take numerous pics beforehand and go ahead and go at it. Have a clear, clean bench to keep everything organized. I would be very nervous riding with gas leaking below my crotch

[Daniel Meyer]

Now THAT begs the question!  How many times can these things shrink and expand, before they won't anymore??    

I'll ride almost anything, anywhere...but my answer here...Not even once. Tear it down and change the rail o-rings. Fuel leaks are bad news and not to be tolerated...even a little bit...on any machine...but particularly with the "BOOM" part right between your legs.

They may have sealed up, but they would not have leaked if they were good...and that machine heats up and cools off every time your run it.

Change 'em.

[hubcapsc]

I remember tolerating a leaky petcock on my Ford 8-N for a while before I fixed it.

Tss tss tss tss...

That was when I was stupid.

-Mike "OK... stupider... "

[Challenger]

I replaced the fuel rail o-rings on a 97 STD between #3 and #5 carbs without taking the carbs off the bike. This thing was gushing gas at start up and would drip steadily when warm. I just removed the tie-rod nuts and was able to separate the carbs enough to get the tube out, Replaced the o-rings, reinstalled tube and re-tightened the tie rods. I do not know if you can change any of the other rails that way as I have not done it. It has not leaked a drop in three years now.

[Brian]

A few tanks of gas with Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in stopped the fuel rail leak on my 97, till I could take it down to replace them. I did them all figuring that if one was leaking they all might start. I no longer run ethanol gas if at all possible and if I do I use a treatment additive.

[cajundood]

I guess I've ridden it for so long with it leaking that I am getting used to it, but I know it's still a clear & present danger that needs to be corrected.
Not really keen about getting my balls blown off! 

I found a complete expanded break-down of the carb six-pack that i located online. I have printed it out. Guess I need to give it another go this coming February. February being about the only month that I cannot do much riding down here in the tropics...

[jimmmr]

So.........I went back out about five hours later........and about that many Brews later, to check this out.......

I turned the gas on,  and NOT one drop of gas came out,  that I could see!!!  It just POURED out before, Like the gas line was not even hooked up!!!  So I NEED to ask, ANYBODY!!!!

  Even a Rep from Honda themselves.......WTF!!!  How can this occur?  I have never heard or even seen of such a thing......

THANK YOU SALTY!!!!!!!!!  

 If I had never found your post, I would likely have half the Bike apart already, for nothing!!     What a fricken' weird characteristic, of these bikes!!!!

 ??? ??? ???

Edited to add.......turned the gas back on, no fuel running everywhere, and after over 5 hours sitting.........purred at 500 rpm at idle.........what a BEAUTIFUL machine!!!!     

Same thing happened to me this week. With two Valks I realized I hadn't ridden on the Interstate for about 5-6 weeks. The other one I had Big Bill Ferguson rebuild the carbs last fall and have been riding that one more. When I started the other one up, it poured gas from one carb on each side. I thought Uh-Oh now I have to get a carb rebuild on this one too. After watching Big Bill do them last fall, I was planning to try and do this set myself. Was cruising the web, boning up on the latest carb rebuild info and ran into a couple of posts like this one. After reading this one, I went out to the garage and thought I'd try starting it after it sat for a day, and sure enough. It stayed dry, tight and not a drop of fuel. Took it for a short run and it was still dry and tight when I got back. Will keep an eye on it, but boy did that save me alot of work.
Jimmmr from Southern NM.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I store mine dry (empty bowls) every winter and have done so for years. This with drain screws left open. Avoids hydrolock.

The only time I've ever had one of these bikes leak at the fuel rails was when Blondie's new (to her) Tourer was on its third or fourth season of our ownership. This bike (a '99) had 3600 miles on the odometer when we bought it in 2008. Needless to say, it wasn't ridden much - and who knows how it was stored when stationary.

Disassembling those carbs was fun - the bike is a CA model and spent 3.3K of its existence on the coast, then it (along with its owner) were transferred to NJ. More coastline...saltwater air. When I got the bike into the mix, I replaced several of the chrome parts which were in need of immediate attention - but the carbs (and their hidden oxidation issues) were lying in wait. 

So far, so good. Disassembly of the bank also gives one the opportunity to inspect everything and replace questionable parts. It's daunting if you have never done one but now that I have a number of them under my belt (helping fellow VRCCers) it seems to go faster each time.

[2KVISRiderDan]

Hey Rugguy, I'm doing my carbs now due to leaking fuel rails/joints. It was a real pain removing the air box & intake boots. That is more than just a tight fit. I could sure use any tips/tricks you have for installing them. Any help would be appreciated to avoid damaging them upon installation.

[Tfrank59]

Now THAT begs the question!  How many times can these things shrink and expand, before they won't anymore??    

I'll ride almost anything, anywhere...but my answer here...Not even once. Tear it down and change the rail o-rings. Fuel leaks are bad news and not to be tolerated...even a little bit...on any machine...but particularly with the "BOOM" part right between your legs.

They may have sealed up, but they would not have leaked if they were good...and that machine heats up and cools off every time your run it.

Change 'em.

  maybe I'm just lucky but I haven't done anything to my fuel rails or carburetors, 34k now and I have never even smelled let alone seen any fuel leaking. I'm with Daniel -- fuel leaks cannot be tolerated. One thing I do is I ride year round, which is probably the best preventive measure for this sort of thing and other maladies

[BobB]

I remove the fuel tank and drain the carbs when the Valk is stored away for the winter.  The main reason for doing this is that it is stored in my basement workshop, and my spouse will not tolerate the smell of gas in the house.  Go figure. 

I have had leaks from the fuel rails several times when first starting the '98 Tourer in the spring.  The leaking has lasted ten to fifteen minutes while the bike is idling and from there on does not leak for the entire riding season.  Yesterday, I moved the Valk to the garage and more gas was spewing out of the rails than I remember.  It also took over forty minutes of idling before the leaking finally stopped.  I assume the o-rings in the rails are due for replacement next winter.  Is anyone else experiencing this with these twenty year old bikes? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don’t think the age is so much the factor. My 99 I/S gets ridden most every day and doesn’t ever leak. My 01 Standard gets ridden little anymore and leaks each time. It’s just time to replace them.

[cookiedough]

this thread reminds me of 2 days ago firing up 1st time after 4 LONG winter months sitting in garage on 1997 honda magna petcock off gas fully treated for winter use in November.  Ran fine firing up NO leaks, let idle with choke 2-3 minutes, took around the block is all LUCKILY and came back idling a few seconds running in garage when I saw a 3 foot expansion of gas under engine.  Shut bike off ASAP and engine area was smoking literally but not on fire was afraid it was going to explode of raw gas dripping on front exhaust pipes/engine. 

I cleaned up raw gas on engine/exhaust and shut off petock again NO more leaking.  Turned petcock back on NO leaking still and no gas dripping.  So,  I am hoping NO MORE leaks of raw gas when next time firing it up.  but yes,  I think is 1 of the 4 carbs dripping gas down from what I saw at 7:30 p.m. with flashlight getting dark.

Will see I guess, but time to do something about it for I was afraid the bike would explode from HOT exhaust and gas combo, not a good thing to have.  I am hoping the seals on carbs will seal up but have my doubt for how long who knows, but sounds like is a possibility might seal still and be free from gas drippings??

I think since previous owner never shut petcock off the past 20 years,  if all goes well,  I will just leave petcock left ON for winter storage on 1997 honda magna vs. me shutting it OFF this first winters storage.

[da prez]

  This fuel leak situation is like putting a bandage where you need stitches. It will split open and become a gusher. If you are not able to do the carbs properly , then send them out.  I have never sent a set to a dealer. Bikes I have worked on (some , not all) that have been worked on by dealers have been less than what I would call good work.

                                            da prez

[pais]

    My fuel rails were leaking 3yrs ago, in the Spring, when I got her out for the first time. Rails never stopped leaking even after warming up. I ordered the RedEye kit and did a carb cleaning and replaced all the O-rings. That was Spring of 2015. Two weeks ago I rolled her from storage. Turned on the gas and choke. She fired up but, gas was leaking from the rails.......again! Only this time O-rings musta warmed, swelled and stopped leaking. Didn't think I'd have this issue again.

[terryoswald]

Well, I just put my bike back together after cleaning the carburators.  But, I never removed the carbs from the framework that they sit in and/or are connected to.   Never bothered the fuel rails at all.  But, now they leak like a firehose.   I'm off to tear the entire assembly down again and will be replacing the o-rings and double checking everything.   

[rug_burn]

     O-rings don't last forever, no matter what they're made of.  After 20 years or so nitrile o-rings get rock-hard with age, and you just gotta break down and replace them.  
    And while you're at it,  you may want to replace the metric o-ring between the intake tubes and the heads with an inch-based unit with a .103 cross section, 1.125 ID, which is a 2-122 Parker or AS568 -122 size, made from Nitrile rubber, 70 durometer hardness.   You could squeeze in -123 which has a 1.187 ID in a pinch if you couldn't get a -122.  That one Viton compound is good, too, but hard to find, and as much as these o-rings get replaced, Nitrile, the standard for any petroleum based fuel, oil or grease, is fine.    I use The O-ring Store online, Lewiston, ID,  www.theoringstore.com.

    The original oem part has a .094" cross section, and 29mm ID, which is 1.142".  The -122 ring is thicker and puts more rubber in the o-ring space, and will not leak, no matter what, after being tightened down.  It actually overfills the o-ring space just a little,  but for a static seal that's good.  You don't want that to leak, ever.

     The O-ring Store also has the little o-rings for the vapor and fuel rails, too, at about 12 and 20 cents each, sizes  N1.30 x 008, and N1.78 x 007.94, both 70 durometer.  Shipping $6.00 so get some extras.    O-rings are not expensive items, although Honda seems to think so.
    For what it's worth.

[Valker]

Is there a video anywhere that shows how to replace the fuel rail o-rings and others without messing with the carbs?

[rug_burn]

you can not mess with the carbs individually, but you still have to re-sync them after you break them all apart.

[98valk]

tighten up the bolts that run thru each bank. they can get loose and then leak.

Buna-n aka nitrile is the material of the oem o-rings. they don't dry out, crack etc., unless exposed to sun light and ambient air mainly the ozone for years. Where the seal is actually happening is not exposed to the air/ozone.
My bike is a '98 left over I bought new in '00. slight leak one time the thru rods nuts were a little loose. 1/4 turn and haven't leaked again now at 65k miles.

[Timbo1]

    O-rings don't last forever, no matter what they're made of.  After 20 years or so they get rock-hard with age, and you just gotta break down and replace them.  
    And while you're at it,  you may want to replace the metric o-ring between the intake tubes and the heads with an inch-based unit with a .103 cross section, 1.125 ID, which is a 2-122 Parker or AS568 -122 size, made from Nitrile rubber, 70 durometer hardness.   You could squeeze in -123 which has a 1.187 ID in a pinch if you couldn't get a -122.  That one Viton compound is good, too, but hard to find, and as much as these o-rings get replaced, Nitrile, the standard for any petroleum based fuel, oil or grease, is fine.    I use The O-ring Store online, Lewiston, ID,  www.theoringstore.com.

    The original oem part has a .094" cross section, and 29mm ID, which is 1.142".  The -122 ring is thicker and puts more rubber in the o-ring space, and will not leak, no matter what, after being tightened down.  It actually overfills the o-ring space just a little,  but for a static seal that's good.  You don't want that to leak, ever.

     The O-ring Store also has the little o-rings for the vapor and fuel rails, too, at about 12 and 20 cents each, sizes  N1.30 x 008, and N1.78 x 007.94, both 70 durometer.  Shipping $6.00 so get some extras.    O-rings are not expensive items, although Honda seems to think so.
    For what it's worth.

Great tip on the Oringstore.  I ordered from them and was very pleased with their service.  I actually ordered wrong part#, sent them a message asking if I could add 8 pcs on to my order and they added the correct parts on as a sample at no charge.  Very impressive customer service imo.

I'm wanting to order some more orings for the carb Air cut off but don't know what size they are.  Do you happen to know what inside diameter and cross section the oring is for the brass nipple on the air cut off?

Thanks in advance

[rug_burn]

 You're talking about the 'choke' control?   
   No, I never had that apart, which is to say that's something I'm gonna have to do in the future. 
    Honda is pretty good about telling you the o-ring size on list with those part fiche drawings.  Have you checked that?

[recman25]

I've also figured out that the "TEE" for the fuel rail is leaking. Is there a way to take it out of the fuel rail without disassembling the carbs? I'm  hoping that one end of the TEE is shorter so that I could push it to one end and remove it that way. What do you think? Obviously I realize the gas tank, airbox,etc has to come off in order to get access.

[Ricky-D]

It's plastic, you can cut it and get it out.

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