Anti-Lock Brakes

[blackvalk]

Has anyone heard or tried this TCB product.

Read the Testimonials and tell me what you think, especially if you have first hand experience.

http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com/

[John U.]

I've just read all about it but I have no personal experience. In case we get responses from those with personal experience, maybe they can provide some insight.

As I understand it, this system introduces a compressible component into the brake system, just as air would. I understand that there is no air to brake fluid contact but the diaphragm and air space result in basically the same thing.

So my question is: though this system may result in an inability to lock up a brake due to reduced force transmitted to the brake pads, I can't see how this would result in shorter stopping distances unless the brakes were purposely locked up with the stock brake system being compared.

Also, it seems that this is a one size fits all product. Since the force necesary to lock up a brake depends on the road condition, tires, weight of the bike, type of brake pads, front or rear wheel, up hill, down hill or flat, ambient temparature and probably a dozen things I've haven't thought of, how can the same unit with the same diaphragm strength provide just the right amount of"give" for all applications?

The proof of course is where the rubber meets the road, maybe someone can help me see how this can work.

[Valkahuna]

Bill,

If you get any info on this, let me know. I can't say that makes any sense though.   ??? I've always tried to replace the rubber brake lines on my bikes with stainless woven ones. The reason this is done is to improve braking performance by eliminating the "sponginess" that occurs from the brake lines expanding from the pressure exerted inside them.

This device now purposely adds a "bladder like" device that will actually introduce sponginess into the system. This is really counter to what any expert will tell you. Even their write up on their product seems to tout the fact that braking effectiveness is reduced, thus stopping your brakes from locking up. It really is false and dangerous advertising, and is the total opposite of what ABS does. ABS allows maximum braking, until the sensor on the wheel detects impending lock-up. Then, the pressure on the brakes is modulated very quickly, to maintain this "just before lock up" condition. When the wheel does skid, this is sensed, and the brake is released again to prevent lock-up.

This device you ask about seems to just diminish braking performance to where there is not enough pressure to lock up the wheel. Sounds scary, if you think about it!

Thanks,

Pete

[blackvalk]

Wow,

Both your responses are exactly what I was thinking. I would like to hear from someone that actually has this product

Also, I would really love to have "Motorcycle Consumer News" do a test on this product. They have been notified about this.

Bill

[Chrisj CMA]

I have never seen this before, but it seems to me its only going to increase stopping distance(brake performance)in a brake system that DOESNT already have floating calipers and pads.  I understand I think, that the cushion effect would come into play at the higher braking force pressures (like a blow out plug) to help avoid lock-up.....so my wee brain says if you install this on a Valkyrie you gain the anti lock but nothing else should be different

[Valkahuna]

Chris,

I guess I'd have to hear from someone that actually has this, I don't see how floating calipers or pads would stop this device from diminishing braking performance.

Hey, I could be wrong, but even though I'm not from Missouri, someone would have to show me.

[Chrisj CMA]

the way I read it this would do nothing to our brakes until you squeezed hard enough to engage the thinggy that does the anit lock.  Since few squeeze that hard ever....most people that would install this on a valk wouldnt even know its there is my estimation.....but Im like you been wrong before and will be wrong again "film at 11"

[Valkahuna]

You are prolly right. If you did squeeze that hard, you'd lock them up. I guess that is the part I don't get  anyways. You are supposed to have a sense of feel or touch, that stops you from locking them up. I guess that is what separates one rider from the next. 

Where ABS comes in, is when you have to really yank of the brakes (or stomp on the pedal if it's your cage, and don't have time to modulate the brakes. I guess then this thingy could maybe stop the brakes from locking. But to compare it to ABS is a stretch I think. 

[rayjay]

This looks like the old "SAF-T-BRAKER" (sp?) from the 60's and 70's. An air bladder that softened the pressure rise in a braking system. This was the latest gadget when I was learning how bad of a racer I was in SCCA and AAMRR competition. For motorcycles this was when the changeover from 4LS (4 leading shoe) to disc brakes was happening and we were still learning about matching master cylinder piston and caliper piston sizes for effective braking, especially after adding a second disc and caliper. Some people swore by them, and some people swore at them. I tried them and didn't like them as they increased lever travel and (to me) decreased feel.

Just for giggles, here is the original patent:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3162017.pdf

[Valkahuna]

Thanks for posting.  I had forgtten the "Safety Braker", but your post brought it back. I was going through General Motors Training center in 1966, and my Dad (he was a service Manager at a Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW dealership in Chicago, and then a Chevy Dealer in greater Cincinnati) actually were pit crew for a BMW  1800 TISA being campaigned in a SCCA Sedan racing class.

We didn't think much of the device then either.