Indiana purchase permits

[KW]

Does anyone know what it takes for an Indian resident to obtain a handgun from a private "sale"? I’m having trouble figuring it out on the internet, though I’m sure it’s there somewhere. I’m giving my son a pistol for Christmas. I had to register it in my name in Michigan. I’m assuming my son, who lives in Fort Wayne, will have to obtain a purchase permit in order to register/transfer the gun in HIS name? In Michigan you have 10 days to send in the form, which the gun store completed for me. There’s nothing to it ‘up here’ if you’re a CPL holder. What’s the process in Indiana? Thanks for any help.

[Serk]

I did some preliminary searching but didn't find anything definitive, but I know in Texas, there's no paperwork required for a person to person transfer. You give him the gun and say Merry Christmas, nothing more.

I thought most states were like that?

[fudgie]

There is no paperwork for private sale 'in' Indiana. Nor do we have to register it. We transfered Kits gun out of my name into hers but only took 5 min and $10 at the shop.
I looked at, and was going to, purchase a gun in South Dakota this year during rally time. The gun was $100+ cheaper there then here. Since I lived out of State they had to mail the gun to a FFL dealer and finish paperwork then back in Ind.

I assume your son has a Ind LTCH?

[Serk]

Ahha, found some more info for you:

Indiana Statute requires that the person you sell a handgun to in a face-to-face transaction must be 18 years old and an Indiana resident. Furthermore, you may not sell a gun to a person prohibited from owning one. Since you have no way of performing a background check, you may prefer to have an FFL broker the trade for you and perform a NICS check. Otherwise, many people ask to see a driver's license to verify residency and age, and an LTCH to make at least a token effort to verify if the buyer is a "proper person". If the buyer resides in another state, the sale must go through an FFL. The FFL will have full details about the requirements and procedures. You should also plan to write out a receipt for the sale. Have two copies, one for you and one for the buyer. He may need it to get out of the building with his new purchase, and you may need it for your records.

From here - http://ingunowners.com/forums/general_firearms_discussion/16185-ingunowners_faqs_sticky.html#post630600

So, if you wanted to be fully legal eagle, you'd need to find an FFL (Try gun stores or pawn shops) near the recipient that would agree to handle the transfer, then give possession of the firearm to that FFL, and they would handle the paperwork to legally transfer it to the recipient. Most charge $20-$50 for this service.

[fudgie]

Cool serk. 

There are a few gun shops in the Fort that should be able to handle it. If not, a guy in Huntington can do it.

[KW]

Yeah. . . . a friend at the Sheriff Department said pretty much the same thing, (have to go through a FFL in Ind.) but I just assumed she was wrong! HAHA! Here in my County they no longer even have to SEE the gun if you're a CPL holder. I'm not sure if that's a 'county by county' or State thing? My son DOES NOT have a CCW or LTCH. . . (Interesting that every State seems to call it something different, eh? Michigan started off calling it a CCW, but did away with the 'weapon' word when numnuts started carrying everything Rambo knifes to nunchucks. Idiots!) I'll just tell him to find a FFL in the 'Fort' and call it good. I was hoping to advoid that so he doesn't have to lay out any money on a Christmas gift. Maybe I'll keep it and run it down there and meet him at the FFL to complete the transaction? I also want to try and find out how many days he has to register it? (10 business days in Michigan) Anyone know? Thanks again!

PS - Ya'll got to love the State of Texas!    

[MarkT]

Hmm.  I'd be inclined to avoid registering it.  The less the govt knows, the better - when it comes time to come confiscate your guns.  Trust me, that day is coming.  Sooner or later.  If the chump in the white house gets his way - or his gun-grabbing pals. If the GOP doesn't find somebody who can beat him - man that lame duck will have a 4-year gun grabbing spree. I love it when I can get a gun the govt knows nothing about.  Not that I have any, of course.  But that's just me...

[fudgie]

He is screwed if he does not have a LTCH-Lisc to carry handgun.   They will need that to do the FFL thing at the dealer. He needs a LTCH to carry a gun in Ind, open carry or concealed carried. He does not need one in his home. After he gets a Lisc, mail him some money and he 'can do what he wants'   with it. It will avoid the FFL thing.
He does not need to register it in Ind. If he wants to, then no amount of time. I bought one at the show and its not registered. Gun shop I asked said not to reg it also, like MarkT said.
Dont discount Ind. Indiana has some of the best gun laws in the Country. Of all the States I been to, Ind is the best. Very, very little limits on where to carry.

[junior]

He is screwed if he does not have a LTCH-Lisc to carry handgun.   They will need that to do the FFL thing at the dealer. He needs a LTCH to carry a gun in Ind, open carry or concealed carried. He does not need one in his home. After he gets a Lisc, mail him some money and he 'can do what he wants'   with it. It will avoid the FFL thing.
He does not need to register it in Ind. If he wants to, then no amount of time. I bought one at the show and its not registered. Gun shop I asked said not to reg it also, like MarkT said.
Dont discount Ind. Indiana has some of the best gun laws in the Country. Of all the States I been to, Ind is the best. Very, very little limits on where to carry.

how does that work in wal-mart?.........lol

[fudgie]

He is screwed if he does not have a LTCH-Lisc to carry handgun.   They will need that to do the FFL thing at the dealer. He needs a LTCH to carry a gun in Ind, open carry or concealed carried. He does not need one in his home. After he gets a Lisc, mail him some money and he 'can do what he wants'   with it. It will avoid the FFL thing.
He does not need to register it in Ind. If he wants to, then no amount of time. I bought one at the show and its not registered. Gun shop I asked said not to reg it also, like MarkT said.
Dont discount Ind. Indiana has some of the best gun laws in the Country. Of all the States I been to, Ind is the best. Very, very little limits on where to carry.

how does that work in wal-mart?.........lol

Funny guy arn't ya!  For the record, I had it concealed. Seems when I oc its never a issue. 

[Hoser]

I did some preliminary searching but didn't find anything definitive, but I know in Texas, there's no paperwork required for a person to person transfer. You give him the gun and say Merry Christmas, nothing more.

I thought most states were like that?

Kansas is the same.  Private owner to private owner sale, no restrictions. No registration except the yellow sheet if from FFL dealer.  Dealer is required to keep the paperwork on hand.  I have never bought a firearm from anyone but a private owner, even my duty gun when I was a cop.  Just don't get caught with a stolen gun.  Hoser  

[KW]

The pistol is already registered in my name here in Michigan. So, he’ll have to transfer ownership at some point. In principal I agree with not registering guns and having/owning weapons 'off the grid', but when you buy a firearm from a FFL there’s ‘paper’ on it from that point forward. If I had failed to send in the two copies of the registration required, it would have been a federal violation.

So, if I understand what’s being posted; if my son obtains his CPL he can just mail in the registration?  Michigan use to have a “transfer of firearm” card you could send in and report that you no longer possessed a firearm. No such thing anymore that I know of.

Anyway, good information here. Thanks. I agree about Indiana having some outstanding assurances & protections of our Rights (and that’s what these laws do. They shouldn’t be necessary, but sadly they are.) When I found out from my son that Indiana offers a lifetime CPL, I was impressed!

[9Ball]

when did you buy the gun?  If it was during a time when your son could have been living with you, then he can always say it was given to him while he lived in Michigan.  This would avoid an out of state transfer through an FFL and only require the in-state form.

Just saying...

[Jess from VA]

when did you buy the gun?  If it was during a time when your son could have been living with you, then he can always say it was given to him while he lived in Michigan.  This would avoid an out of state transfer through an FFL and only require the in-state form.

Just saying...

     The only possible issue might be explaining why he took so long to file Indiana paperwork if he's had this pistol in his possession these last X years.  It might not be an issue at all, but it might.... checking IN laws on in-state registration requirements would answer the question.

Not registering is always a choice, but if the gun is used in self defense or lost/stolen and you want to report it for insurance purposes could result in problems.

[fudgie]

KW, if he/you want it done right, then dont do anything till he gets his LTCH. In order to transfer it it, he will need his lisc. You go to a dealer, say you want to transfer this gun into your sons name, fill out paperwork, they will run both of your Lisc, pay $10, and your done. 15 min tops.

There is 2 gunshops you may want to call and get a better answer. The one in ft wayne that I can think of is H&H firearms-or its new name, freedom firearms. Another is Buds Fishing Hole here in Huntington, 15 min drive from the Ft.

[Serk]

I'm really confused... I thought only a few backwards states had actual gun registrations, and the vast majority had no such thing??  When you say "registration" are you referring to filling out the yellow form at the gun dealer (Federal, and that yellow form stays with the dealer), or is this some separate action you need to take to actually register your guns with the state??

[Jess from VA]

A preliminary search of IN gun laws says NO State gun registration, only federal forms for purchase from dealer, or a transfer from out-of-state.

If that's the case, Mr Horton's idea seems reasonable, and my earlier comments on state registration are in error. 

[KW]

@Serk; (FYI) In Michigan the dealer fills out a little 3 x 5, multi-layered (4 copies) “form.” One copy stays with the issuing FFL, one copy UNDER LAW, is required to stay with “gun” for 30 days after purchase and the last two copies are given to the purchaser to submit to their local authority (County or City LE) in 10 business days from purchase. That’s the law. This is assuming the ‘purchaser’ HAS a Michigan CPL. If not, it’s a whole different process requiring the purchasers to obtain a ‘purchase permit’ from their local 'arresting authority' and go through a background check.  I always thought this was a federal requirement for pistols. It isn’t? Stupid me. Seems like this is something I should know, but honestly, I didn’t. . .   

@Fudgie; My son has lived in the ‘Fort’ for 5 years now, so I think what I’m going to do is tell him to leave the gun is Dad’s safe and GO GET HIS STINKING CARRY PERMIT!

Thanks for the help guys. I was having a brain fart over this stuff.

Just another ‘FYI’ and a quick side note; NEVER ask advice on any legal issue from a LEO.  They will ALWAYS tell you to “go 5 mph under the speed limit just to be safe!” HAHAHA!

[Serk]

Wow... No, that's definitely not federal... Sorry, wasn't trying to make you feel stupid, I didn't know Michigan did that, I thought only states like New York, California, New Jersey, etc, did that sort of silliness...

For federal requirements (And most states, as far as I know?) you fill out the form 4473, then if you don't have a CCW/CHL/whatever that waives the requirement the FFL calls the NICS (FBI national instant criminal check system) and if you're green lighted, you take your gun home with you that day, nothing more.

The background check requirements of many states CHLs are thus that presenting one waives the need for the call to the NICS as well.

The form 4473 stays with the FFL (There are some limited circumstance the ATF can get their hands on them, but in general they stay with the FFL.) The way it works is, say the police recover a S&W SN ABC123 in a crime. They go to S&W and ask who they sold SN ABC123 to. S&W gives the police the name/address of the distributor, the police then go to the distributor, ask who THEY sold SN# ABC123 to, they give them the name of the FFL, they go to the FFL and the FFL in that LIMITED situation for that single SN# give the police your information.

At least, that's how it's supposed to work...

[KW]

Just to clarify; the “purchase permit” for a non-holding CPL buyer can be obtained prior to purchasing the gun. I think they’re “good” for 10 days? I’ve never purchases a handgun when I didn’t have some type of carry-permit, so I’m not real sure. The background check for a non-CPL buyer is performed at the gun store, so in either case, CPL holder or not, the purchase CAN be made the same day. It’s just a lot easier – no background check – if you have a CPL.

I purchased a long gun earlier this year. A little semi-auto. I was SHOCKED that they filled out a federal form. When did that happen? Granted; it’s been many, many, many years since I purchased a long gun. The last one (2 actually) I just paid for it and walked out.  Private sales of long guns (not sure about pistols) can be 'exchanged' without any paperwork. Pistols may very well fall under the same guidelines, but if it’s registered in YOUR name it would be foolish NOT to send in something showing you no longer have possession of the gun.

The funny thing about Michigan is; we’ve always – at last as long as I can remember – have had ‘open-carry’ even when it was nearly impossible to get a CCW.

[fudgie]

The funny thing about Michigan is; we’ve always – at last as long as I can remember – have had ‘open-carry’ even when it was nearly impossible to get a CCW.[/color]

Most States do. I think 43 or more States have open carry laws. I think its actually common law. Alot of the  States allow you to Open Carry without a permit. I can open carry in Ohio legally even tho they do not honor my LTCH. Got my Utah as a back up lol.
I remember being young in the mid 80's and seeing a guy come into Radio Shack with a 6 gun hung low on his hip. Thought that was the coolest thing. And I didnt freak out. 
Seems a little backwords to me that you need a permit to CC instead of oc. Seems like it would be the other way around.  ???

[KW]

Last I knew, Florida was still fighting for it. . . . . It may have changed?

(FYI - This is ORANGE not yellow! HAHAHA!)

[fudgie]

Last I knew, Florida was still fighting for it. . . . . It may have changed?

(FYI - This is ORANGE not yellow! HAHAHA!)

Your right. FL and TX are still fighting for it. FL will win before TX will.