Needles

[Mase]

I have a box full of needles which I do not know the brand.  They are a mix of FactoryPro, Viking, others.

Anyone have a link(s) where I can look to see which ones are which?

[98valk]

I have all three types.

factory pro I believe have a FP on them, they are in the bike right now.

The Dynojet and Viking needles are identical and they are richer than the FPs, which translates into a smaller diameter tip.

The cobra needles are re-badged Dynojets.


Hope that helps.

[R J]

I have all three types.

factory pro I believe have a FP on them, they are in the bike right now.

The Dynojet and Viking needles are identical and they are richer than the FPs, which translates into a smaller diameter tip.

The cobra needles are re-badged Dynojets.


Hope that helps.

Are you saying that Dynojets/Vikings/Cobras are all the same?

If not exact, awful damn close.

[98valk]

I have all three types.

factory pro I believe have a FP on them, they are in the bike right now.

The Dynojet and Viking needles are identical and they are richer than the FPs, which translates into a smaller diameter tip.

The cobra needles are re-badged Dynojets.


Hope that helps.

Are you saying that Dynojets/Vikings/Cobras are all the same?

In my opinion yes. the DJs and Vikings measure the same or close enough like RJ said

[98valk]

do u run the front carbs with a richer needle position? even works for oem needles with a washer, provides a much smoother ride.

[98valk]

No.  I run all of the jets the same and the needles are all set the same.  The last dyno runs I did showed a loss of power when I had them set the FP way.

same here for jets. I noticed a nice difference with the needles richer for the front two carbs.
I have a modified air box and glass pack exhaust.

[Ricky-D]

No.  I run all of the jets the same and the needles are all set the same.  The last dyno runs I did showed a loss of power when I had them set the FP way.

Although I run stock, I never did understand the FP suggestion. It seemed to me to be contrary and I kinda figured some kind of voodoo science was involved including dyno results which can always be managed.

Doing it the FP way probably would be easily compensated for by the motor since the remaining four cylinders would mitigate the affect.

To assuage my stalkers I want to say this is only my opinion and the singular fact I make is that I run stock.  I doubt my stalkers will read this far anyways.

***

[R J]

I'll toss in another option.

97 needles are different from all the rest.

I run vikings, but all are set the same.

whne we finished MGM at Viking it put out 106 hp and 102 or 103 torque on the dyno.

Then 6 months later I ran it a Puddy Town, no changes except 1 was California and this one was in KY.    91 hp & 95 torque.   I think that is what it is,  Can't read it too good.

[98valk]

No.  I run all of the jets the same and the needles are all set the same.  The last dyno runs I did showed a loss of power when I had them set the FP way.

Although I run stock, I never did understand the FP suggestion. It seemed to me to be contrary and I kinda figured some kind of voodoo science was involved including dyno results which can always be managed.

Doing it the FP way probably would be easily compensated for by the motor since the remaining four cylinders would mitigate the affect.

To assuage my stalkers I want to say this is only my opinion and the singular fact I make is that I run stock.  I doubt my stalkers will read this far anyways.

***

the front carbs run leaner in the needle circuit due to them getting the fuel from the middle carb bowls. They do not have a direct feed from the tank like the other carbs do. Their MJ recos would have to be a result of the airflow in a stock airbox. this is their test bike in a dyno room not from track/hwy testing. when my bike was still stock, I noticed a difference by shimming only the front needles. once modded I also try the needles all the same and different for the front carbs. the front needles raised is better, plug reading is more consistant now also.

[Ricky-D]

This is not a criticism of anything you have written regarding your experience.

I only want to give you my reasoning on the subject of raising the needles on the front cylinder carburetors.

My first point is that the needles do not come into play at WOT (wide open throttle) which is the throttle position that dyno runs are made.

Raising the needles are only affecting the mid-range (understanding the idle circuits are still in play).

Under the circumstances, in the mid-range, as a for instance:

At 60 miles per hour, with a Valkyrie that is getting 30 miles to the gallon the 6 cylinder motor is consuming about 4.3 ounces of gasoline per mile/per minute.

That computes to less than an ounce of gasoline per cylinder per minute.

A shot glass is one ounce.  For factory Pro to state there is a fuel starvation problem requiring a needle change to the front two cylinders when the carburetors are metering less than an ounce of gasoline per minute is smoke in my estimation.

To say that the front carburetors are seeing an unusually lean mixture compared to the remaining four cylinders is to say that Honda did a terrible design job on the whole carburetor system to such a point that correction to the way fuel is delivered to the carburetors can only be achieved by an unusual and unique adjustment to two carburetors only.  That is rubbish!

______________________

If you were to experiment by loosening the float bowl screw on any carburetor and collect the gasoline that is flowing out you would find that the gasoline is flowing at a rate many times more that one ounce a minute. And that would be from any carburetor, including either one of the front carburetors.

As I previously said: This is in no way a criticism of what you have posted.

I just want to get the facts of the matter straight out and put to rest, the fallacy perpetuated upon Valkyrie riders and their bikes, by Factory Pro.

***

[98valk]

This is not a criticism of anything you have written regarding your experience.

I only want to give you my reasoning on the subject of raising the needles on the front cylinder carburetors.

My first point is that the needles do not come into play at WOT (wide open throttle) which is the throttle position that dyno runs are made.

Raising the needles are only affecting the mid-range (understanding the idle circuits are still in play).

Under the circumstances, in the mid-range, as a for instance:

At 60 miles per hour, with a Valkyrie that is getting 30 miles to the gallon the 6 cylinder motor is consuming about 4.3 ounces of gasoline per mile/per minute.

That computes to less than an ounce of gasoline per cylinder per minute.

A shot glass is one ounce.  For factory Pro to state there is a fuel starvation problem requiring a needle change to the front two cylinders when the carburetors are metering less than an ounce of gasoline per minute is smoke in my estimation.

To say that the front carburetors are seeing an unusually lean mixture compared to the remaining four cylinders is to say that Honda did a terrible design job on the whole carburetor system to such a point that correction to the way fuel is delivered to the carburetors can only be achieved by an unusual and unique adjustment to two carburetors only.  That is rubbish!

______________________

If you were to experiment by loosening the float bowl screw on any carburetor and collect the gasoline that is flowing out you would find that the gasoline is flowing at a rate many times more that one ounce a minute. And that would be from any carburetor, including either one of the front carburetors.

As I previously said: This is in no way a criticism of what you have posted.

I just want to get the facts of the matter straight out and put to rest, the fallacy perpetuated upon Valkyrie riders and their bikes, by Factory Pro.

doing 60 mph u should only be in the pilot jet circuit, if in the needle circuit, the pilot jets are the wrong size and/or not adjusted correctly. needles/mid range are during acceleration through the gears, this is not redline each shift.

easy to check plugs and ride before and after a test of raising the front needles only. my experience there is a slight difference, mainly there was a slight added vibration during 3-4k rpm acceleration, is smoother after needles raised.
this is my bike, and my sensitivity to small changes, others results might be the same or different.

[Blackduck]

+1 with RJ on the 97 needles, they have the same profile as later needles but are just a little thinner
All the rest are similar for about the first third after that they are way thinner than stock.
Depends on the engine and mods how they react.
I currently run 97's, FP are way too rich for my set up
I once started a thread to see what needles are used in other countries but did not have much feed back.
There are more than 2 types of needles listed in the manual I have and it does not cover all countries.
It's the old story of run what your bike is happy with.
Steve