Clutch adjustment

[peter]

Greetings,

I haven't been here in a few years and had to re-register. Is Big BF still around? Hoping some one can tell me how to adjust my clutch. I went for a short ride the other day on my '98 tourer and immediately noticed there was way too much "play" in the clutch lever. I have to pull the lever almost all the way in before it begins to disengage, and it re-engages too early, just a fraction of an inch when you let out the clutch.
Put another way, 3/4s of the clutch lever travel doesn't do anything, only in the final 1/4 of travel does the clutch lever do its job. I checked the fluid level and it's good.

Anybody got any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks much!
Peter   

[Slammer]

Either you have air in the system or bye bye clutch. There is no adjustment on the clutch.

Slammer

[R J]

Dat big boy still a shakin his tail and a workin.

http://www.bigbf.com/

[Challenger]

Brake fluid gets saturated with moisture and has that same effect.  Clean all the gunk out of your clutch reservoir, fill with new fluid and bleed system till fresh fluid comes out at the bleeder. top off reservoir. If it helps you are done, if not, you need clutch work. Worked for me !! Good luck.

[Ricky-D]

Hydraulic systems need constant working to stay in good shape.

Like the previous post a bleeding might just do the job but I fear it's more likely the master cylinder.

Working the lever should do no harm and doing so may show an increase in effectiveness.

Either way, I doubt it's anything serious.

***

[peter]

Thanks, Boys. I'll replace the fluid, bleed the system and take it from there.

Good to hear Big Bill is still doing his thing.

Thanks very much for the rapid replies - it's getting cold here in Maryland (no riding) so I might be able to do this today!

Peter

[Patrick]

You could also check the lever bushing for wear..

[Scott from FL, now in Maine]

+1 on the bushing. They wear out and cause the same symptoms.   

[Valkpilot]

Greetings,

I haven't been here in a few years and had to re-register. Is Big BF still around? Hoping some one can tell me how to adjust my clutch. I went for a short ride the other day on my '98 tourer and immediately noticed there was way too much "play" in the clutch lever. I have to pull the lever almost all the way in before it begins to disengage, and it re-engages too early, just a fraction of an inch when you let out the clutch.
Put another way, 3/4s of the clutch lever travel doesn't do anything, only in the final 1/4 of travel does the clutch lever do its job. I checked the fluid level and it's good.

Anybody got any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks much!
Peter  

I just went through the same scenario on one of my Valks and it was just old fluid.  The PO hadn't changed it in a LONG time.

A truly worn out clutch is rarely reported here.  There are a number of cases where the rivets in the clutch damper plates wear and shear.  That usually shows up as an inability to pull the lever all the way to the grip, along with difficulty shifting or finding neutral.  Since you didn't list that as a symptom, I thing your problem is much less severe, as Ricky-D indicated.

Posts above have listed a number of possibilities, all valid.  In order of likelihood (and more or less ease and expense) here are the possible causes:

• Old fluid and/or air in the line: Bleed and replace.
• Worn lever pivot bushing or worn master cylinder piston bushing: Replace lever and piston bushing.
• Worn master cylinder seals: Rebuild master cylinder.
• Worn slave cylinder seals: Rebuild slave cylinder.
• Clutch plates worn or damper rivets sheared: Replace clutch stack.

I've also experienced the rivet shear problem on my other Valk.  Here's a write up: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20870.0.html

[peter]

I just got back from changing the fluid and bleeding the system (dot 4 synthetic) and it actually got worse! I hooked up a bleeder to the slave valve (per manual) and pumped the master cylinder via the lever and this barely cleared the old fluid out, and then the fluid seemed to stop pumping altogether. I felt very little resistance when pumping the lever, and saw precious little fluid moving through the tube, even when pumping the lever like crazy.  Fittings were tight and no bubbles in the lines.

Doesn't this point to the master cylinder? If so, am I better off finding another one or can they be rebuilt?   

Thanks very much for your help on this, really appreciated.

Peter

[Valkpilot]

I just got back from changing the fluid and bleeding the system (dot 4 synthetic) and it actually got worse! I hooked up a bleeder to the slave valve (per manual) and pumped the master cylinder via the lever and this barely cleared the old fluid out, and then the fluid seemed to stop pumping altogether. I felt very little resistance when pumping the lever, and saw precious little fluid moving through the tube, even when pumping the lever like crazy.  Fittings were tight and no bubbles in the lines.

Doesn't this point to the master cylinder? If so, am I better off finding another one or can they be rebuilt?    

Thanks very much for your help on this, really appreciated.

Peter

Rebuild kits are less than $30.

BUT...it can take a long time to work new fluid all the way through the system, especially if what you're replacing is really old.  The old fluid can actually congeal.  We've pushed what look like gummy worms out of some clutch lines.  

I wouldn't give up yet.   The old pump the lever, hold, release fluid at the bleeder, close bleeder, repeat technique takes a while, but usually works.

[Canuck]

I had a similar issue with the clutch on my 1500 Wing.  Ended up being the slave cylinder.  The Wing was an '88 but only had about 50k on it.  As you can see by the picture, they get a little cruddy!
 


The seal was worn and bleeding off pressure.  Lots of room to get at it on the Valk compared to the Wing.  I had to pull the alternator to remove it.

[BnB Tom]

You could also check the lever bushing for wear..

  Yes.  The symptoms you describe sound suspicously like a bushing.. and they're cheap and easy to install. 

[Tropic traveler]

You could also check the lever bushing for wear..

  Yes.  The symptoms you describe sound suspicously like a bushing.. and they're cheap and easy to install. 

+1, been there done that.
Check your bushing & lever before you start getting deep into the hydraulics.

[gordonv]

Dag has now posted a section for all kinds of manuals.

http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html

If you don't already have, DL the PDF copy of the service manual. I use that and a hard copy, still like paper in my hand when it's time to do the job.

[Patrick]

It sounds to me like you filled your system full of air when you tried to change the fluid.. The bleeder should be closed when the lever is pumped/held.. Then the bleeder is opened and closed.. Then repeat.. Leaving the bleeder open when pumping/working the lever will do nothing but fill the system with air..

[PSUbag]

I had the same symptoms 2 years ago. It was the bushing. Easy fix. Hope you're as lucky.

[sugerbear]

pick up a mighty vac ( or similar) really helps.

[peter]

I'm looking at an exploded view of the lever and cylinder (page 220 in Clymers) and I don't see the bushing you guys are talking about. Do you mean the " push rod end piece" that slips into the lever?

sorry to be such an ignoramous...

Peter

[peter]

....also, I thought I could leave the valve open while pumping the lever so long as there is fluid in the master cylinder.

[GOOSE]

Peter.... the bushing you need is the brass ferule that goes into the clutch lever, and the end of the clutch with pin goes into.....Honda part number:  22885- MBO-006.  you cannot leave the bledder valve open to the air when you bleed the brakes unless you have a speed bleeder.   you have introduced air into the system.  Once you get the air out of the system, and install a new brass bushing, i think you problems will be behind you....i don't know where you are located, but there bis probably another member close by that would be happy to help you with the air bleeding.  these guys are all over the place.

[peter]

Thanks Goose - I'll get the brass "bushing" and give it a try. Still fogged on how air could get into the system, though. I'm using a simple bleeder kit that uses a tube and bottle - one end of the tube goes over the bleeder valve and the other is submerged in fluid inside a small bottle. I can see an occasional small bubble travel up the tube, but other than that, its all fluid going through the tube.

A few more observations: every time I squeeze the lever, a few small bubbles come up through the "hole" in the bottom of the reservoir (doesn't matter if the valve is open or closed); also, I feel absolutely no resistance when pumping the lever, even when full of fluid and the bleeder valve closed. And finally, the rubber boot seems to be stuck in the cylinder - it looks right, but doesn't come out when I tug on it (Clymer's implies it comes out easily).

Arrrrrrg......
 

   

[gordonv]

To bleed the simplest method, you put a hose on the bleed valve to direct the spent oil into a catch containier.

You pump the lever a couple of times (to build up presure), hold it, open the valve (expelling oil/air), close valve, and start all over again.

Air compresses, oil does not. You'll notice over time that there will be less and less compression as the air is removed from the line. At no time release the clutch lever while the valve is open, or air will come into the line from the bottom opened valve.

A speed bleed is either a one way valve that opens with presure (the lever) and closes, stopping air from going back in. Another way is to place the drain hose into brake fluid, so it is suched up rather than air.

The vacum bleeders can be bought for as little as $25, and they such the oil through the line from the open bleeder valve, from the reservoir (make sure you keep it topped up).

[Patrick]

Replace the bushing, bleed the system properly as described and you're problem should be fixed.. Easy, doesn't take long..

[Ricky-D]

It only takes a few small air bubbles to have no lever at all.

Bubbles coming up in the reservoir is a good thing because that is showing the air is bleeding out at that place. There should be no air (bubbles) when finished. The bubbles mean there is air in the top of the hydraulic system including the lines.

***

[Trapez]

The is my 2nd time to replace the clutch bushing. Im not sure now if the push rod was installed back correctly. I need to verify if the rounded/bevel end gos towards the master cylinder or towards the clutch. The Partzilla diagram is of no help but kinda looks like the flat side of the push rod is towards the master cylinder.





The flat end was towards/inside the bushing, it took 5 years to start bushing through the brass bushing, enough to make you thing you got air in the lines

[Trapez]

...Im not sure now if the push rod was installed back correctly. I need to verify if the rounded/bevel end gos towards the master cylinder or towards the clutch...

Never mind, the push rod can only go in one way Flat side inside the bushing

[Chrisj CMA]

I recently rebuilt my master cylinder with the parts highlighted above. Made a huge difference in where the clutch engaged/disengaged in the travel of the handle.