Evans Antifreeze ?

[alph]

Has anyone used it?  i've been doing a LOT of reasurch and i don't know if it's worth it or not.  i just pulled my radiator cap and there was this slime crud all over it.  i've pulled my radiator, and i'm getting it profesionally cleaned right now, so when i put everything back together i'd like to know what you guys think about coolants.

thanks.

al.

[art]

After watching a story on J Lenos garage I am going to change to it in my valk.It seems like it is worth the money.Anything to make the alum. engine parts last longer.

[alph]

yeah, but i've been reading that it doesn't pull heat away from the engine as well as water/antifreeze.  is that true?  just want to know these things......

[98valk]

yeah, but i've been reading that it doesn't pull heat away from the engine as well as water/antifreeze.  is that true?  just want to know these things......

been in the bike for over 10 yrs now.  no hotter than normal.

http://evanscooling.com/how-it-works/water-based-vs-waterless-differentiators/

Non-Aqueous Propylene Glycol (NPG) with additives to protect metal surfaces was chosen as the replacement liquid. Because of the specific heat and specific gravity differences between NPG and EGW coolants, it is theoretically necessary to increase NPG's coolant flow approximately 27% over that for EGW to remove equal amounts of heat from the engine. In actual application however, where current cooling systems produce significant amounts of vapor, less flow increase can provide the same, and even increased, heat rejection. Since there is no water in the system to cause cavitation of pumps, the increased speed is easily achieved. The flow can be further increased to provide even better cooling of the engine. The physics of why NPG cooling allows for higher engine performance can be best understood by looking at how the vapor is managed.

http://evanscooling.com/how-it-works/maintenance/

[Gryphon Rider]

yeah, but i've been reading that it doesn't pull heat away from the engine as well as water/antifreeze.  is that true?  just want to know these things......

Evans propylene glycol coolant has a lower heat transfer coefficient than water or water/ethylene glycol coolant, and thus the engine will typically run hotter than with traditional engine coolants.  In hot summer conditions this will probably make a 10-15°F difference.  This isn't a problem for your engine, however, because of another property where Evans coolant has a huge advantage over traditional coolant: its boiling point (BP).

A higher BP means that at the places in your engine where cooling is most critical, the combustion chambers, the coolant doesn't boil and thus is able to transfer heat away from these points, whereas traditional coolant WILL spot boil at these points and the resulting vapour has a very POOR heat transfer coefficient when & where it is most critical.

The higher BP also means that there is virtually no chance of boiling over and losing your coolant altogether.

I put Evans NPG+ in my bike when it was one year old (2000 model bought new in 2001, Evans installed 2002) and noticed that the fan came on more often in lower ambient temperatures, but I have never had the engine temperature light come on while riding/idling.

[alph]

hey, Amsoil makes this stuff!!  same price as Evans, but i can get NAPA to order it and i won't have to pay shipping!!  plus, i use amsoil oil anyway......

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx

[98valk]

yeah, but i've been reading that it doesn't pull heat away from the engine as well as water/antifreeze.  is that true?  just want to know these things......

Evans propylene glycol coolant has a lower heat transfer coefficient than water or water/ethylene glycol coolant, and thus the engine will typically run hotter than with traditional engine coolants.  In hot summer conditions this will probably make a 10-15°F difference.  This isn't a problem for your engine, however, because of another property where Evans coolant has a huge advantage over traditional coolant: its boiling point (BP).

A higher BP means that at the places in your engine where cooling is most critical, the combustion chambers, the coolant doesn't boil and thus is able to transfer heat away from these points, whereas traditional coolant WILL spot boil at these points and the resulting vapour has a very POOR heat transfer coefficient when & where it is most critical.

The higher BP also means that there is virtually no chance of boiling over and losing your coolant altogether.

I put Evans NPG+ in my bike when it was one year old (2000 model bought new in 2001, Evans installed 2002) and noticed that the fan came on more often in lower ambient temperatures, but I have never had the engine temperature light come on while riding/idling.

evans will not run 10-15 degrees hotter, it will run about the same. my fan never comes on any more than it did before installing evans. it actually is cooling better due to no more nucleate boiling. plain water and/or antifreeze mix with nucleate boiling has zero heat transfer. this is all explained on their website in detail. if the water pump is not working properly and/or the thermostat is not fully opening then evans will run hotter.

[Thespian]

yeah, but i've been reading that it doesn't pull heat away from the engine as well as water/antifreeze.  is that true?  just want to know these things......

been in the bike for over 10 yrs now.  no hotter than normal.

http://evanscooling.com/how-it-works/water-based-vs-waterless-differentiators/

Non-Aqueous Propylene Glycol (NPG) with additives to protect metal surfaces was chosen as the replacement liquid. Because of the specific heat and specific gravity differences between NPG and EGW coolants, it is theoretically necessary to increase NPG's coolant flow approximately 27% over that for EGW to remove equal amounts of heat from the engine. In actual application however, where current cooling systems produce significant amounts of vapor, less flow increase can provide the same, and even increased, heat rejection. Since there is no water in the system to cause cavitation of pumps, the increased speed is easily achieved. The flow can be further increased to provide even better cooling of the engine. The physics of why NPG cooling allows for higher engine performance can be best understood by looking at how the vapor is managed.

http://evanscooling.com/how-it-works/maintenance/

 Did you change out anything when you converted. The website said it may be necessary.

 What about purging the old coolant from the system?

[98valk]

for our bikes they said nothing has to be done. they said one can modify the rad cap but it is not necessary. All I did was replace the fluid.
And I think I researched back then that the Amsoil and the other companies that sell an eco/pet friendly propylene glycol still has a small % of water in it. I think evans addresses this on their site.

[donaldcc]

  Wasn't this beat to death recently on General Board??

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,36690.0.html

[98valk]

looks like it was, missed that one.

http://www.dow.com/heattrans/prod/glycol/


http://www.gadgetjq.com/coolant_replacement.htm


http://www.engineice.com/about_us.html

[Brian]

Why make life difficult? The small amount of anti-freeze these use, why not just change it every year?

[alph]

  Wasn't this beat to death recently on General Board??

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,36690.0.html

yes it was, but someone had to start calling someone else a "cu*t" and other choice words that caused it to be locked by the powers that be.  i wanted to continue a discusion about the products, and question others opions but it got locked.  so hopefully those individuals don't "shop" here.....

[98valk]

Why make life difficult? The small amount of anti-freeze these use, why not just change it every year?

because water is a solvent and is always trying to desolve the aluminum block, radiator and heads.

http://www.edinformatics.com/interactive_molecules/water.htm

all anti-freeze mixes have nuclearate boiling in the heads, the evans and engineice eliminate this. Engineice recommends replacing every yr again due to the water in their product.
evans is one time change. 
both sites have good detail info.
I think the dowfrost which Anvil posted in the other thread is what evans uses. this is not confirmed though.

[Ricky-D]

Has anyone used it?  i've been doing a LOT of reasurch and i don't know if it's worth it or not.  i just pulled my radiator cap and there was this slime crud all over it.  i've pulled my radiator, and i'm getting it profesionally cleaned right now, so when i put everything back together i'd like to know what you guys think about coolants.

thanks.

al.

I think that the deposits are from inattention to the cooling system.

If you are trying to find something to compensate for not tending to the cooling system I think that would be folly.

There is no substitute for periodic maintenance including lifetime claims of many products including the Evans offerings.

Changing the antifreeze every two or three years is very easy and since the volume is small, changing is inexpensive.

There is an old adage about all the apples in one cart.

***

[Robert]

Water is not a solvent but is called the universal solvent because everything pretty much has that as a base. Water is a pretty good conductor of electricy hence electrolysis. Especially if there is low or high ph or salt or if you have dissimilar metals depending on what they are then one can act as a anode and one a cathode. Not to much of a worry in our Valks because the metals are all that pretty much get along. Antifreeze glycol will cause the engine to run hotter than a engine running water, comparatively, is it important probably not unless your in a hot climate like S Fla. The white slime you notice are the antifreeze deposits. Thermostat does regulate the temp of the water but its the ability of the water to carry heat and contact the parts of the engine to wick heat away. Hence 2 bikes both with 180 thermostats running in the temp range one could be hotter if one has a wetting agent in with the solution. Our bikes will never with normal use get hot enough to boil water but there still may be bubbles on the surface of the engine parts. A wetting agent will help to eliminate this hence more contact area hence cooler engine. Evans has a wetting agent and is a bit thicker than antifreeze/water combo. This allows Evans to run pretty much stock temps. I said before I use 5 to 10 percent antifreeze water wetter and water. I have run this mix for the life of the bike and I have no deposits. Dont worry about changes and have a cooler running bike. I did have deposits with the factory coolant when new but now its just shinny metal. For our applications I see no value at all.
  I see Evans shining on cars that run hot or are pushed hard and may want to boil over. For the ordinary pass car I dont see it. Take a survey find out how many miles people have gone without changing their antifreeze and what kind of problems have they had. I think you will find the majority haven't changed it and they have had no problems. Thats the real problem with Evans a soulution but not really a problem to solve at a price higher than what ordinary methods could do just as well.

[98valk]

U.S. Geological Survey states otherwise about water being a solvent

Water is called the "universal solvent" because it dissolves more substances than any other liquid. This means that wherever water goes, either through the ground or through our bodies, it takes along valuable chemicals, minerals, and nutrients.

Pure water, which you won't ever find in the natural environment, does not conduct electricity. Water becomes a conductor once it starts dissolving substances around it.


http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/waterproperties.html

[Robert]

Distilled water is often defined as bottled water that has been produced by a process of distillation and has an electrical conductivity of not more than 10 µS/cm and total dissolved solids of less than 10 mg/litre.[1
Typical conductivity of waters:
Ultra pure water 5.5 · 10-6 S/m
Drinking water 0.005 – 0.05 S/m
Sea water 5 S/m

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/applications/ultrapure/conductivity/water-conductivity.htm#ixzz1jNxyg1gD
To illustrate water's ability to break down other substances, we may consider the simple example of putting a small amount of table salt in a glass of tap water. With dry salt (NaCl) the attraction between the electropositive sodium (Na+) and electronegative chlorine (Cl-) atoms of salt is very strong until it is placed in water. After salt is placed in water, the attraction of the electronegative oxygen of the water molecule for the positively charged sodium ions, and the similar attraction of the electropositive hydrogen ends of the water molecule for the negatively charged chloride ions, is greater than the mutual attraction between the outnumbered Na+ and Cl- ions. In water the ionic bonds of the sodium chloride molecule are broken easily because of the competitive action of the numerous water molecules.  As we can see from this simple example, even the delicate configuration of individual water molecules enables them to break relatively stronger bonds by converging on them. This is why we call water the universal solvent. It is a natural solution that breaks the bonds of larger, more complex molecules. 

[RP#62]

Don't know about that, but I heard that magnesium can be distilled out of seawater.  I do know though that when you get it near sea water, it wants to go home.
-RP

[alph]

alright, here's what i'm going to do.

i talked to Sam Mammolo (from Sams Garage) and he says that if i check and change my antifreeze on a bi-yearly bassis, i shouldn't have anything to worry about, and i do that anyway.  so, for the $10 per gallon for normal antifreeze verses the $40 for Evans, i should'd come out about even after 8 years....... who knows were i'll be in eight years, or if i'll even be able to ride then.......  so i'm sticking to regular antifreeze for now.  plus, i can get it at any auto store in the country if need be.

thanks for all the inputs!  you guys make up your own decisions, it's a free country!!  (for now.....)

[Toolman Tom]

GET IT!  I've had the Evans Coolant for about 4 years and NEVER added to it.  No water needed.  I even run it in my Corvette.  Tom in Atlanta