Question for you handymen/construction people - VERY not Valk related

[Nico]

I am rehabbing a condo and need some advice about finishing some walls I have partially taken down. I have attached a photo of the area I have removed the walls from On the right side (part of the wall removed from floor to ceiling), I planned on attaching a 2x4 to the exposed masonry (all walls are a soft material called Pyrobar with cement over then a skin coat of plaster to finish) and capping the wall with drywall. On the left side, the plan is to attach a 2x4 to the top to make a finished platform to attach a bar height counter to (offset for seating at the counter). Here are my questions:

1. Does this sound like the right way to go?
2. If not, what would you suggest to "finish the end and top of the walls?
3. would it be better to take out what I have left and frame in the areas with 2x4 and drywall? (I am leaning more and more to this option)

Thanks in advance for your input

[junior]

well i am a wood freak, i would incase the ends with 4 quarter pine and make a butcherblock top for the bar and finish it all with poly

[ptgb]

As your brother, I feel that I am qualified to give the best advice...


HIRE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!!!  


To this day i do not understand how your wife allows you around power tools. But alas, have fun with that.


p.s. Happy Birthday

[Sergeant D]

I did something similar.  Question is, how structurally sound is that remaining wall.  I would rip it out and build new 2x4 frame and drywall it.   I would place the 2x4s 12 inch on center to provide the structural integrity needed to prevent someone from leaning on the counter and breaking it off.  What I did is build the frame, had a 3/4 piece of solid core plywood the same sioze as the countertop, and secured it with 4 inch deck screws every 4 inches into the 2x4 frame.  The frame was secured to the floor with 6 inch lags into the slab (yours looks similar) with mason type expansion screws (forget the technical name).  

As far as capping off the walls, 1 by pine would work unless you are putting on a door which doesn't seem likely in your case.  All you really need is something to tack the sheet rock onto.  

Lastly, are you sure that wasn't a load bearing wall.  Doesn't look like it, from the photos, but if it were, I'd use a 4x4 post at the end of the bar, floor to ceiling.  Doesn't really take away from the look and is nice insurance, but you know better than me what you are dealing with.

Best of luck.

[Hook#3287]

Not having seen what was there before.

My first ? is, what is above the kitchen?  Another floor or roof?  And were the walls bearing?

Second, does the knee wall move at all when you shake it?  If it does, it will need additional support to stop that, otherwise, it WILL get worse.  You could take the knee wall out completely and get base cabinets to make an island which would support a counter top no problem, or if you want to use the knee wall, you'll need to support the counter top some how, with brackets or legs, if you have any cantilever of over a foot or so.  I know most granite guys will give you 18" for cantilever, but I consider that  to much for a counter top in that situation.  One that people will be leaning on and possibly sitting on.  (You never know what people will do, so plan on it)

As for the ceiling, you have a couple of choices.  You can attach some spacer to the framing and put a trim piece to that, making the hole  look like a beam, or you can add the correct width drywall and resurface the complete ceiling.  You could try to blend the patch with drywall mud, but, most likely, you'll see the difference.

It's amazing how we do things differently, by region, in this country.  I've never seen a masonary wall like that in the northeast. We would have just framed in with wood and covered it with drywall.

Have fun!  I'd rather be riding too.

[Hook#3287]

Couple of other things to consider.

I would bring the wall on the right out so as to hide the stove from whatever room is to the right of the pic.

Is that a electrical switch hanging there?  If you bring the wall on the right out, you could move that switch over to that wall with a box and a little more wire (easiest) or pull a new wire from the box (way hardest)

[Nico]

what is above the kitchen?  Another floor or roof?  And were the walls bearing? - This is a 5th floor condo. There are units above and below All floors and ceilings are concrete slabs. No interior walls are load bearing (you can see the big honking support beam that goes across the kitchen ceiling.

Second, does the knee wall move at all when you shake it?  If it does, it will need additional support to stop that, otherwise, it WILL get worse.  You could take the knee wall out completely and get base cabinets to make an island which would support a counter top no problem - There is some movement in the knee wall, which is why I am leaning toward taking it all out and framing in 2x4 and drywall. The knee wall is going to be a 42" height wall with cabinets along the interior (kitchen side). At the "exposed" end of the knee wall, I planned to frame in another short wall 36" high by 28" wide to "cap off" the end of the cabinets (as well as perpendicular support for the knee wall)

As for the ceiling, you have a couple of choices.  You can attach some spacer to the framing and put a trim piece to that, making the hole  look like a beam, or you can add the correct width drywall and resurface the complete ceiling. - Ceiling is concrete (the line you see is just the bare concrete. I will only have to skim coat the line to blend it to the rest of the plaster.

As far as capping off the walls, 1 by pine would work unless you are putting on a door which doesn't seem likely in your case. - No door being framed in. And with the Pyrobar bricks being so light and porous, I am really starting to lean toward taking that wall piece down and framing in with 2x4's. Plus this will make the wiring for light switches on that wall much easier (I dread having to try to fish wiring through those brick holes.) The wall itself will be floor to ceiling at 28" deep, again to close off the cabinets. I am also going to frame in a floor to ceiling wall 28" deep where the fridge is shown now. that will close off that space for the fridge as well as visually matching both the whole and half height 28" deep walls.

[Hook#3287]

This is a 5th floor condo. There are units above and below All floors and ceilings are concrete slabs. No interior walls are load bearing (you can see the big honking support beam that goes across the kitchen ceiling.

That explains alot and I did wonder what the large beam in the back was all about.

I live in the country, we don't have many buildings taller then two story houses, so my experience with multiable story condos is about zilch.

Sounds like you got a good plan going.

[Nico]

As your brother, I feel that I am qualified to give the best advice...


HIRE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!!!   2funny - Yeah, you are a riot!!! 


To this day i do not understand how your wife allows you around power tools - You should see all the cool new tools I bought for these projects! Tile wet-saw, pneumatic air hammer (goes through that Pyrobar and cement like crazy), new 8 lb sledge hammer! And you are just as much of an "enabler" yourself, with buying me that Dremel rotary saw for Christmas. You should see how well that thing goes through the walls!!!

But alas, have fun with that.

[junior]

As your brother, I feel that I am qualified to give the best advice...


HIRE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!!!   2funny - Yeah, you are a riot!!! 


To this day i do not understand how your wife allows you around power tools - You should see all the cool new tools I bought for these projects! Tile wet-saw, pneumatic air hammer (goes through that Pyrobar and cement like crazy), new 8 lb sledge hammer! And you are just as much of an "enabler" yourself, with buying me that Dremel rotary saw for Christmas. You should see how well that thing goes through the walls!!!

But alas, have fun with that.

 i have brothers like that................"come here and stick your finger in this light socet and tell me if its live".....................lol

[ptgb]

...And you are just as much of an "enabler" yourself, with buying me that Dremel rotary saw for Christmas. You should see how well that thing goes through the walls!!! ...

For the "record" {crossing fingers behind back} that was mom's idea not mine, thus any missing appendages due to your use/misuse rest strictly on your shoulders... as I would hope you wouldn't want to take legal actions against your ppppoooooorrrrr mother would you?

[Serk]

Totally off topic, but.....

I am SO glad that I don't have any family members that are regulars on this forum!

Okay, maybe not THAT off topic, but just had to say it...

Good luck with your project!

[Nico]

Serk,

Don't know if you know how "little" brothers are. Always copying me!

I get a bike, he gets a bike...

I get a valk, he gets a valk...

I get on the valk forum, he gets on the valk forum....

never fails....

[BF]

I've seen alot of condo construction (I live in Florida....we have lots of condos, and installed the a/c in a bunch of them when I was much younger) and I've never seen that type of block construction on the interior walls before.  Every one I've seen, they use metal studs covered in sheetrock (drywall) for the interior AND exterior walls.  

I'd take down the rest of that block material and rebuild with metal studs.  They're easy to work with.  All you need is a chop saw and a set of tin snips (metal shears).  You'll also need a power shot nailer to shoot the studs into the concret whether you use metal or wood.  You can rent them.  You'll also need a drill and a box of self-taping screws.  

[old2soon]

No suggestions but i duz have a comment. When lived in Illinois and would ask my brother for help/advice and then ask if he thought that would really work his answer was i would not do that to my house or what do i care it ain't mine!!  Brothers at times can be fun.  Hope you get it sorted out.  RIDE SAFE.

[Cattman]

Just a thought. If you remove the knee wall you could bump the kitchen out so  that front of the cabinents are flush with the existing wall towards the fridge. They would hide the area to be patched in on that wall.

[fudgie]

If you remove the knee wall and go with 2x4's it will still be as flinsy as it is now. Once you get the counter top on it will stiffen up. The counter 'should' have plywood that is separate from the top. Fasten this to the wall and then secure the top to it. As for the ceiling, I'd skim coat it and make it part of the ceiling. Same for the ends of the walls. This way it will look like it belongs instead of a remodel.

[BradValk48237]

I agree with others... take down the existing narrow and knee walls... re frame.... you'll be much happier in the long run.... Also with the knee wall, securing it to the existing walls and slab may be a problem to get the stability you want for a counter top..... I would suggest a narrow cabinet base and a wider top.. more counters/bar space and more storage.....maybe room for a couple of stools under an overhang,  nice piece of stone or butcher block..... have also seen neat work from old bowling alley lanes for a top.....

BTW licensed General Contractor here in Michigan......

Brad

[Gryphon Rider]

...any missing appendages due to your use/misuse rest strictly on your shoulders...

I'd rather have them put in an appropriately sized bucket of ice and then put in the ambulance with me with a note explaining what should go where.  The only appendage I'd want carried on my shoulders is my head, and someone please keep it aligned properly!

[Nico]

Thanks for all the input. I put my question and photo on 2 DIY websites and got more replies here then on both those sites. For those of you that are interested, Here are the mock-ups of the finished kitchen design I have come up with.





And BradValk, if you don't mind, would it be OK to pick your brain if needed as the project progresses?

[BradValk48237]

Anytime...    What little there is to pick.... 

like what you've started......

Brad