Two problems fixed...which creates a new problem (FIXED?!?!?!)

[Nico]

Some of you may have read my other posts regarding popping issues and gas in cylinder 4. Well I spent the weekend working on these problems. First I tightened the loose header nuts, then I changed the intake O-rings and vacuum caps. To make sure I didn't get the gas filling #4 cylinder, I pulled the carb bank and removed the float bowl, cleaned it out and put everything back together.

I fired the bike up, took it out and it rode really well. At least for a while....As I was riding, all of a sudden, it felt like the bike was bogging down and hesitating like it was out of gas and needed to switch to reserve (which I did). That did not help the problem. the bike started to idle really bad at stoplights and seemed to have no power. Occasionally, it would seem to "catch" for a second but then would bog down again.

I did some searching, looking for info on this problem and there seemed to be suggestions about vacuum lines, petcocks, etc. As stated above, the vacuum caps are new, the vacuum line from #6 to the petcock is new, so they shouldn't be cracked. I also checked them for kinks or obstructions. Neither was the case.

So what should I be looking at now??? Just to let you know, The fuel system is main tank to belly tank to carbs. Also, new K&N filter with foam filter as well.

Any suggestions???

[Dennis Klinefelt]

Check the vent tube on the regular tank to make sure it's not pinched..if it is it will cause the tank to vapor lock...not sure with a belly tank how the whole fuel system works  rock on....

[Thunderbolt]

When you re-install the tank, you can kink the vent tube in the rear if you do not pull it down as you lower the tank.

[John Schmidt]

I don't know why or where I got this idea, but I always thought the belly tank fed the main tank via the fuel pump. The main tank in turn fed the carbs as usual.

[Master Blaster]

I don't know why or where I got this idea, but I always thought the belly tank fed the main tank via the fuel pump. The main tank in turn fed the carbs as usual.

Nope just the opposite, fuel pump feeds the carbs.  Main feeds the belly.

[Ricky-D]

Could be you have not fixed the problem with #4 cylinder/carburetor!  Still flooding the cylinder with gasoline causing the bad idling.

Cleaning is not always the fix for a faulty carburetor. Changing the needle and seat is the best way and replacing the float if it's called for.

[ironbutt1139]

mine does that too.  if i turn the ignition off and then back on it clears up and runs fine.  still dont know if its a bad ignition or fuel pump on belly tank.  possible ground problem but havent found it yet.  hope this helps

[Nico]

Ricky-D

After two rides yesterday where the problem occurred, I pulled the intake from #4 and the cylinder was bone dry (not dry really, just not filled with gas). So, I hope that has been corrected. When I pulled the float bowl, the float actually sat up for a second then fell, so I believe it became "unstuck". Then I cleaned out the bowl and the area around the float with some carb cleaner.

I will be checking the vent hoses again when I get home. I am also wondering about it possibly being starved for air. I wrenched the tank down pretty tight when I re-attached it, so i am wondering if I could be impeding the intake vents at the top of the airbox. Couldn't hurt to loosen it up a few turns and see what happens.

Anyone have any opinions on Ironbutt's thoughts regarding electrical???

[ptgb]

Geeez, I am glad I am not anywhere near your garage  ...

Anyway I would approach it systematically, step by step... fuel system first:

1. Check venting, run it with the filler open
2. Check vent line
3. I know you and I covered it, but make sure the fuel line from fuel pump to Valk's fuel lines is not kinked. For that matter did you check all your fuel feeds after putting the carb bank back on?
4. Check to make sure fuel pump is pumping... disconnect at fuel filter, extend the hose off the naked end of the filter and see if it flows good... then try it without the filter connected see if the flow improves.
5. While you have that disconnected put a new fuel filter on it... WIX 33027
6. Next check the #6 vacuum line again to make sure it is not kinked, but think about it... fuel to the system does not come through the petcock anymore.. it just vents the system... fuel only actually flows through it to get the "reserve" fuel down to the belly tank... so I can't think of a reason that a faulty petcock would cause any problems, except maybe a venting issue, but it should still vent though the factory vent line.

Other than that... and especially if you are going to venture into the electrical realm (which I don't think it is, at this point)... I have no idea.


Good luck 

 

[Nico]

OK, update time....
Ran the bike with the filler cap open. No change.
Re-routed the main tank vent hose. No change.
There doesn't seem to be any kinked lines
I am wondering if there is a problem with the petcock diaphram????

[R J]

Just for sheet and grins, check the ground wire on your pump.  See where it is attached.  Aluminum blocks do not make for a very good ground material.  Take it to the frame.

If this is good, follow the ground cable from the battery and move it to the frame......    Clean the end of it before ya reinstall it however.......

To me it sounds like a GROUND situation............   They can be nasty to chase sometimes.

[Ricky-D]

OK, update time....
Ran the bike with the filler cap open. No change.
Re-routed the main tank vent hose. No change.
There doesn't seem to be any kinked lines
I am wondering if there is a problem with the petcock diaphram????

That would only be, if there is still a problem with the float on #4.

[Tropic traveler]

Maybe I'm just dumb here but is the belly tank add on a new thing or have you been running it for a while?
I am under the impression that floats/needles & seats that are meant to be gravity fed may not like being pump fed & could be a problem??  If an overzealous fuel pump was blowing too much fuel past the floats/needle & seats it could be causing similar syptoms. I don't think it's electrical.
Just making a suggestion.

[T.P.]

  He should know about all of the problems with the belly tanks.

[Nico]

So, I called Roger at R&M yesterday. What a great guy. I told him I bought the tank from my brother and that he probably peed in it and that is what is causing the problem (KIDDING).

I did not know there were TWO fuel filters on the system, so I will be checking/changing the one right off the tank that goes to the fuel pump.

He also said that there is NO NEED for a connection from the #6 carb to the petcock vent, as it doesn't effect the petcock any more. So I will be taking that hose off and capping the intake (he said the petcock end can be left open. (THANKS PTGB for screwing up my install instructions....LOL, Just jerkin' your chain). So I will try that and see if it has any effect. I am wondering if the vacuum from # 6 pulling on the petcock diaphragm could be effecting performance? I will also be checking the electrical ground as suggested as well.

I will update as more info comes in.

[ptgb]

...I am wondering if the vacuum from # 6 pulling on the petcock diaphragm could be effecting performance?...

Nope , that shouldn't have any effect. There was never anything in the directions as to attaching the #6 to the petcock or not... so I did have it hooked up... 7000+ miles of belly tank with vacuum on the petcock (which is a vent @ that point) and it ran fine.

Did you pull the fuel line from the pump to the carb feeds at the fuel filter (I would then attach a length of hose (to the naked end of the filter) to a gas can) and then check the amount of fuel being pumped? While I have no idea what to flow rate should be, whether it look like a strong steady stream or a forced trickle, Roger from R&M should be able to advise you of this.

If the flow rate doesn't match what it should be, then trace backwards... fuel filter #1.... fuel filter #2 (wasn't aware of that one)... pump....

There is also another way to rule out the entire belly tank/pumping system. I would first pump all the fuel out of the tanks as you are going to have a unhooked fuel line (from the belly tank pump) and supply line (top tank to bottom tank) temporarily (just zip-tie them to other lines for now)... figure you can check the fuel flow rate that I talked about above while pumping out the tanks.

Put your Pingel on that you had on it originally... AND cap off the welded in "bung" that supplies fuel from top to bottom (the big line). Then hook the fuel line back up from petcock to carb feeds (without fuel filter)...  this will take the belly tank out of the loop and see how she runs then... if still the same... that would rule out the belly tank and its pumping system as the problem.

*EDIT: you will also have to disconnect power to the belly tank also if you switch the petcock and try without the belly tank... you don't want the pump running with a dry belly tank.

You did so much to the bike over the winter.... I would then double and triple check everything that you did to make sure hoses and caps aren't missing that should be there, and vice-versa... they are hooked up to the right places etc. I have never had the air box off any of mine (all two)... so what's that all about is unknown territory for me.

 I would do all that stuff before running in the electrical direction, even though it may be the case, I would deal with the stuff that was messed with first.

[Nico]

So after much tearing out of hair (which is difficult since I shave my head) and much help and suggestion from other members as to what to look for, I did the following to try to correct the "bogging" problem:

1. Removed, cleaned and re-installed the ground wire from the battery
2. Drained the main tank, pulled ALL the hoses from the belly tank and re-routed them. I did find a partial kink in the line from the main tank to the belly tank (it was near the bottom of the line almost under the clutch housing, so it was hard to see) so the re-route did correct that. Then reinstalled all lines and hoses.

I took the bike out for a test ride before I put all the chrome covers back on (in case I needed to tear it down again), and it seemed to run OK. There were a few moments when the bogging seemed to want to come back, but it stopped. After I took the bike home and put the engine hanger covers back on and buttoned everything up, I decided to take the bike out again to really open her up and make sure she was OK. Well the bogging came back again!!!

Needless to say, I was PISSED!!! So in my frustration, I decided to try an old standby for rough running. I drove over to AutoZone and picked up a bottle of SeaFoam and poured the whole thing into the tank.

Within 1 mile the bike RAN LIKE A RAPED APE. I put her through the paces, upshifting easy and hard, downshifting, reving and holding the RPM's between 3000 & 4000 (where the problem mostly occurred), redlining the RPM's and I even took it onto the local highway and opened her up to about 80 MPH. NOT ONE BOG OR HESITATION Woo Hoo!!!

Obviously, after one ride I have not determined that all is well, but it is a very good sign. I will update again IF the problem happens again, but if you don't hear from me again about this issue, assume I am out riding my baby with a huge grin on my face