Can We Agree on This?

[x]

[fudgie]

yes 

[The Anvil]

Well now I'm starting to wonder... 

[rmrc51]

I Fully agree!!!!!!

[3fan4life]

Awe, SE are you trying to "Kiss and Make Up" ?   

[indybobm]

Yes, that was the plan from the beginning!

[x]

Awe, SE are you trying to "Kiss and Make Up" ?   

3f4l - Just trying to make the point that it's really hard to put people into boxes like "liberal" when there are so many things upon which to be judged.  I am a staunch supporter of gun rights... not that I don't see the need for realistic controls... like ID at gun shows and such... but the main thing is that law abiding persons have the right to own weapons for self protection.
 
If you cannot defend yourself, all other supposed rights become meaningless.   Your right to property, peace, right to speak, security, become meaningless if you cannot back it up... and certainly, the police are not there to do it for you.

[MacDragon]

I do agree with the original post... enough said.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've been adding ammunition to my stock for awhile now " IF " that day ever comes and I sure hope it does'nt .If things get really out of hand I see ammunition as gold and one could use it to barter for food and water and other necessities of life plus you might have to pop a cap on a neighbor who did'nt plan ahead and now wants what you have 

[The Anvil]

I've been adding ammunition to my stock for awhile now " IF " that day ever comes and I sure hope it does'nt .If things get really out of hand I see ammunition as gold and one could use it to barter for food and water and other necessities of life plus you might have to pop a cap on a neighbor who did'nt plan ahead and now wants what you have 

I've been saying all along that while people stockpile ammo and prepare for war against the gubmint hordes it's really going to be each other that we have to worry about if society falls apart.

[BigAl]

 

Yes back to basics.

You have my vote Sir.

Harley Al

[x]

I've been adding ammunition to my stock for awhile now " IF " that day ever comes and I sure hope it does'nt .If things get really out of hand I see ammunition as gold and one could use it to barter for food and water and other necessities of life plus you might have to pop a cap on a neighbor who did'nt plan ahead and now wants what you have 

Look at the millions and millions in the cities... and the "just in time" inventory systems... three days of food at the most.  What would happen in the supply chains were seriously disrupted?  Highly ugly, I think... and yes, the ones with the guns and ammo would prevail.

[3fan4life]

Awe, SE are you trying to "Kiss and Make Up" ?   

3f4l - Just trying to make the point that it's really hard to put people into boxes like "liberal" when there are so many things upon which to be judged.  I am a staunch supporter of gun rights... not that I don't see the need for realistic controls... like ID at gun shows and such... but the main thing is that law abiding persons have the right to own weapons for self protection.
 
If you cannot defend yourself, all other supposed rights become meaningless.   Your right to property, peace, right to speak, security, become meaningless if you cannot back it up... and certainly, the police are not there to do it for you.

SE you have finally made a post that I can take NO exception with.




IT HAS HAPPENED...................

[The Anvil]

If it happens, head straight to Massachusetts and harvest their rampant wild turkeys.

[3fan4life]

I've been adding ammunition to my stock for awhile now " IF " that day ever comes and I sure hope it does'nt .If things get really out of hand I see ammunition as gold and one could use it to barter for food and water and other necessities of life plus you might have to pop a cap on a neighbor who did'nt plan ahead and now wants what you have 

Joe we're in the same "ballpark" here.

I also believe in "stock piling" canned food.

But in the scenario you describe, guns and ammo will probably be necessary to keep it.

[Momz]

I agree 100% with SE on this point.
It seems most agree with the original post.
So with that said, lets not aggravate each other by inflamatory posts and get back to being an M /C forum.

[Stanley Steamer]

You guys should read the Ashe Series by William Johnstone......it's fiction, but I think he pegs it dead on for what might happen if things as we know it came to a screeching halt.......I just finished the last book in the Series....32 of them?.....the first 1/2 dozen describes America in a post Nuclear scenario.....pretty much as I imagine it would happen myself......

http://tcrane.tripod.com/johnstn.html

[The Anvil]

You guys should read the Ashe Series by William Johnstone......it's fiction, but I think he pegs it dead on for what might happen if things as we know it came to a screeching halt.......I just finished the last book in the Series....32 of them?.....the first 1/2 dozen describes America in a post Nuclear scenario.....pretty much as I imagine it would happen myself......

http://tcrane.tripod.com/johnstn.html

And read Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban.

[Karen]

I have been called many things, Sir, but never a wild turkey. Wild, yes. Turkey, yes, but never both at the same time. Come to harvest at your own risk, I am armed, legged, shotgunned, rifled and ammo'd, and will protect and defend all my relatives!

[solo1]

For additional reading, try The Federalist Paper #46 by James Madison.

[The Anvil]

I have been called many things, Sir, but never a wild turkey. Wild, yes. Turkey, yes, but never both at the same time. Come to harvest at your own risk, I am armed, legged, shotgunned, rifled and ammo'd, and will protect and defend all my relatives!

No, no, a Massachusetts resident is a "jive turkey". I'm talking about the real wild turkeys that are overwhelming places like Bedford and Lexington because you can't hunt them. I see dozens of them at a time lining the roads to and from work. Big, beautiful birds that would be made more beautiful by roasting.

[fon1961]

 

[alph]

just remember Ruby Ridge, and Waco Tx.  i'm sure there are a lot of other towns that have had the same things occure, but those are the first two that come to mind.

[Skinhead]

just remember Ruby Ridge, and Waco Tx.  i'm sure there are a lot of other towns that have had the same things occure, but those are the first two that come to mind.

They are the ones that set McVeigh off.

[Sodbuster]

....So with that said, lets not aggravate each other by inflamatory posts and get back to being an M /C forum.

Amen to that 

[Highbinder]

The mouse traps for that scenario have already been set, its called Martial Law, which means the Constitution is suspended, they will be collecting the guns for sure...they did it for Katrina and they'll do it again for a national emergency...the only way to protect yourself from that is don't be there when they come! My feelings are that 80% of the gun owners will turn in their weapons and they will hunt for the other 20%....with the last couple of wars they have got a lot of experience in looking for weapons and if they don't find any don't think they will leave you behind to dig them up later..I've done a lot of research on this topic and the only way to survive is thru some kind of community organizing, a lone wolf doesn't stand a chance.

[hubcapsc]

The mouse traps for that scenario have already been set, its called Martial Law, which means the Constitution is suspended, they will be collecting the guns for sure...they did it for Katrina...

Dang... I didn't even know it... to State and Federal government's credit, they have since passed
laws aimed at preventing out-of-control local officials from doing it again... is the "New Orleans
Police Superintendent" even an elected official, or just some bureaucrat? 

EDIT: sounds like at the time of Katrina, the superintendent was not elected:

On Tuesday, May 21, Mayor Nagin held a press conference to announce that he had chosen 43-year-old Captain Eddie Compass III, a self-described "street cop", to lead the New Orleans Police Department. Compass, a district commander with 23 years of experience, had proven his commitment to the City of New Orleans.

Hurricane Katrina Door to Door Firearms Confiscation	powered by Aeva

Here's what's in the Wiki page... the apparent truth sounds more like Stanley's novel...

Confiscation of firearms

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, National Guard troops, and US Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm. Even National Guard troops, armed with assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.

Angered citizens, backed by the National Rifle Association and other organizations, filed protests over the constitutionality of such an order and the difficulty in tracking seizures, as paperwork was rarely filed during the searches. Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association, defended the right of affected citizens to retain firearms, saying that, "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves." The searches received little news coverage, though reaction from groups such as the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and Gun Owners of America was immediate and heated, and a lawsuit was filed September 22 by the NRA and SAF on behalf of two firearm owners whose firearms were seized. On September 23, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana issued a restraining order to bar further firearms confiscations.

After refusing to admit that it had any seized firearms, the city revealed in mid-March that it did have a cache of some 1000 firearms seized after the hurricane; this disclosure came after the NRA filed a motion in court to hold the city in contempt for failure to comply with the U.S. District Court's earlier order to return all seized firearms. On April 14, 2006, it was announced that the city will begin to return seized firearms, however as of early 2008, many firearms were still in police possession, and the matter was still in court. The matter was finally settled in favor of the NRA in October 2008. Per the agreement, the city was required to relax the strict proof of ownership requirements previously used, and was to release firearms to their owners with an affidavit claiming ownership and a background check to verify that the owner is legally able to possess a firearm.

Louisiana legislator Steve Scalise introduced Louisiana House Bill 760, which would prohibit confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, unless the seizure is pursuant to the investigation of a crime, or if the seizure is necessary to prevent immediate harm to the officer or another individual. On June 8, 2006, HB 760 was signed into law. 21 other states joined Louisiana in enacting similar laws. A federal law prohibiting seizure of lawfully held firearms during an emergency, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, passed in the House with a vote of 322 to 99, and in the Senate by 84-16. The bill was signed into law by President Bush on October 9, 2006.

Another EDIT: check this out, by 2008 national media outlets (USA Today, anyhow) was printing
stuff like this:

Police department spokesman Bob Young said it has stored 552 guns that were confiscated after Katrina, through Dec. 31, 2005. Police have said they only took guns that were stolen or found in abandoned homes.

-Mike

[Flat6Valk]

I support George Washington!

[fudgie]

I think Ind passed a law a yr ago about not giving up arms under martial law during a disaster.

[art]

YES YES

[Highbinder]

You need to read the rules for Martial Law, all state, local, constitutional and bill of rights are void....all the federal government agencies take command, Fema, DHS and all federal regulator agencies FAA, etc. take charge and will be enforced by NorthCom. this use to be good for 6 months without congressional approval, I don't know if this is still the time period.  They have also signed agreements with foreign countries to allow their troops to help maintain law and order or to help out in a national emergency, this was all done without congressional approval.

[art]

If it happens, head straight to Massachusetts and harvest their rampant wild turkeys.

I bet we have more wild turkeys here in Or.Riding it the mountains I've seen more of them than deer

[Chattanooga Mark]

I totally support the original quote. All the founding fathers had that view of government.

Mark

[pBrain]

I only wish it would have made it into the constitution in these exact words.  Also, I wish people would not "interpret" this as they see fit.

3 Simple points here:

• That free people should be sufficiently armed.
• That free people should use those arms to protect themselves from all that attempt to abuse then, INCLUDING THEIR GOVERNMENT.
• Most Importantly.... Free people should be disciplined in the use of these armed.

I am a proponent in employing responsibility when you claim a right.

[hubcapsc]

You need to read the rules for Martial Law, all state, local, constitutional and bill of rights are void....all the federal government agencies take command, Fema, DHS and all federal regulator agencies FAA, etc. take charge and will be enforced by NorthCom. this use to be good for 6 months without congressional approval, I don't know if this is still the time period.  They have also signed agreements with foreign countries to allow their troops to help maintain law and order or to help out in a national emergency, this was all done without congressional approval.

I don't know much about this.

It seems "martial law" is a descriptive term, not a law, where do you read the rules?

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (NDAA) Section 1031

At least two American lawmakers have stated on the record that, in their opinion, Section 1031 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 legalizes or authorizes martial law in the United States.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

During debate within the Senate and before the Act's passage, Senator Mark Udall introduced an amendment to strike subsection D from Title X and "At the end of section 1031, add the following: (f) Extension to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens.--The authority of the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons under this section extends to citizens of the United States and lawful resident aliens of the United States, except to the extent prohibited by the Constitution of the United States." The amendment was rejected by a vote of 60-38

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 lifted many restrictions placed on the military to support civilian administration by the Posse Comitatus Act, however the US Supreme Court ruled in June 2008 that significant portions of the MCA were unconstitutional.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Northern_Command

-Mike 

[Highbinder]

I don't know much about this.

It seems "martial law" is a descriptive term, not a law, where do you read the rules?


The original regulations I read were from the early '70's and I forget the name of the document they were in, it goes to show you how long this has been around...if I'm remembering correctly all of the regulations are covered in the Patriot Act.

[RTaz]

The mouse traps for that scenario have already been set, its called Martial Law, which means the Constitution is suspended, they will be collecting the guns for sure...they did it for Katrina and they'll do it again for a national emergency...the only way to protect yourself from that is don't be there when they come! My feelings are that 80% of the gun owners will turn in their weapons and they will hunt for the other 20%....with the last couple of wars they have got a lot of experience in looking for weapons and if they don't find any don't think they will leave you behind to dig them up later..I've done a lot of research on this topic and the only way to survive is thru some kind of community organizing, a lone wolf doesn't stand a chance.

What Don said...