Its official no worries about Global warming

[Robert]

The lack of warming for more than a decade—indeed, the smaller-than-predicted warming over the 22 years since the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) began issuing projections—suggests that computer models have greatly exaggerated how much warming additional CO2 can cause. Faced with this embarrassment, those promoting alarm have shifted their drumbeat from warming to weather extremes, to enable anything unusual that happens in our chaotic climate to be ascribed to CO2.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Wheres Al Gore when you need him?

[SANDMAN5]

I'm just curious as to how many billions of dollars
have been wasted on this.

[Thespian]

 sorry, not gonna trust the wsj for my comprehensive scientific analysis.  

[..]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Thespian]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Thespian]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

No better a source. There is allot of cr@p we are pumping into the atmosphere, and if you don't think there is a down side to that, your are living in the Nile Valley.
 

[Serk]

Just like with all religions, the True Believers will never be swayed, and the True Doubters will never be convinced... *Shrug*

[keystone kid]

Never try to convince them, just put them on your ignore and leave it at that.

[Thespian]

Never try to convince them, just put them on your ignore and leave it at that.

  So putting you Head in the sand is your answer?
No one will ever go on my ignore list.

[x]

*Shrug* - The only problem is that if the True Believers are correct, and nothing is done, the consequences will be disastrous.  People seem to be smart enough to hedge their bets when it comes to things like fire insurance on their house, but when it comes to climate change are resistant to anything that might mitigate future consequences.

Don't think things are warming up?  Check out the melting glaciers.  Or the Arctic ice pack that is rapidly disappearing.  Or the Greenland ice sheet.  Or the wholesale destruction of pine forests because winter doesn't get cold enough to kill the pine beetle any more.  Or, how about the disappearing antarctic ice shelf?  Sustained droughts in the US and Europe?  These are not temporary phenomena... they are a harbinger of things to come.

[Karen]

Yeah, it's really terrible that the glaciers that used to cover most of North America melted a few thousand years ago. Must have been all the methane in the evil mastodon's feces that left us this awful continent that we barely manage to survive on. Where IS Al Gore when we need him?

[Thespian]

*Shrug* - The only problem is that if the True Believers are correct, and nothing is done, the consequences will be disastrous.  People seem to be smart enough to hedge their bets when it comes to things like fire insurance on their house, but when it comes to climate change are resistant to anything that might mitigate future consequences.

Don't think things are warming up?  Check out the melting glaciers.  Or the Arctic ice pack that is rapidly disappearing.  Or the Greenland ice sheet.  Or the wholesale destruction of pine forests because winter doesn't get cold enough to kill the pine beetle any more.  Or, how about the disappearing antarctic ice shelf?  Sustained droughts in the US and Europe?  These are not temporary phenomena... they are a harbinger of things to come.

 Stop with all the facts, SE. You'll make the heads hurt.

[F6CTrider]

The earth's climate has been changing for millions of years.  How can we be so self centered to decide what is the right temperature for the planet.  Was it 150 years ago during the "little ice age"? How about last year?  Perhaps 20,000 years ago when ice covered all of Canada and then some?  Lets go back many millions of years when there was no ice and the CO2 content was really high?
Do we panic when April is warmer than March?
Lets get bothered when the sun is brighter at noon than it was at 11:30.

In the 1930's the experts were all warning us about the coming ice age.  Guess what, they were right.  In the next two to twenty million years there will be another ice age (or two) and there will be a few warm stretches also.  The planet will cycle regardless.

Having said that, I am NOT about wasting our resources.  Being green for me has nothing to do with global warming but rather being a good steward of the planet.  We should all strive to do our collective best.  The doom merchants and their "sky is falling" script are just self serving smoke and mirrors.
In my opinion it is all B.S. hype to keep us all bickering about nonsense,  to keep us from seeing the truths that really matter.

[Steve K (IA)]

*Shrug* - The only problem is that if the True Believers are correct, and nothing is done, the consequences will be disastrous.  People seem to be smart enough to hedge their bets when it comes to things like fire insurance on their house, but when it comes to climate change are resistant to anything that might mitigate future consequences.

Don't think things are warming up?  Check out the melting glaciers.  Or the Arctic ice pack that is rapidly disappearing.  Or the Greenland ice sheet.  Or the wholesale destruction of pine forests because winter doesn't get cold enough to kill the pine beetle any more.  Or, how about the disappearing antarctic ice shelf?  Sustained droughts in the US and Europe?  These are not temporary phenomena... they are a harbinger of things to come.

 Stop with all the facts, SE. You'll make the heads hurt.

There a lot of people with their heads up their ass in the sand.   It's Jan. in Iowa and the temps will be 56 deg. tomorrow (Monday)!  And 45 deg. the rest of the week.    Hell, it's supposed to be 20 deg out with wind chills around zero and snow knee deep.  This past summer my grass went dormant in June and never came back before winter due to the extreme heat and no rain.  Walking across my yard I could hear the grass make a crunching sound under my feet.  The farmers are getting real nervous about the lack of moisture in the ground.  The NW corner of the state is classified as drought situation. 
The deniers can believe what they want.  They will never see if they don't pull their heads out of.........

[x]

Yeah, it's really terrible that the glaciers that used to cover most of North America melted a few thousand years ago. Must have been all the methane in the evil mastodon's feces that left us this awful continent that we barely manage to survive on. Where IS Al Gore when we need him?

It is not the glaciers that used to cover North America that is the problem, it is the glaciers that are here now, and are rapidly disappearing.  Glaciers and snow pack are an essential element to ensure that water supplies last year round, and that is rapidly changing.
 
Consider the snow pack in California, for example.  There is less of it, and it melts more rapidly.  Spring floods are worse than they have ever been and then water supplies turn to a trickle in the summer, right in the midst of drought conditions.  No water for agriculture or homes.  California's answer is to tap increasing amounts of Colorado river water, but guess what?  This river is also reliant on snow pack to flow year round, and like California, snow pack in the Colorado Rockies comes later, there is less of it, and it melts faster.
 
As for the glaciers, the rivers in Canada and northwestern United States are the primary source of year round water.  These glaciers are disappearing at a rapid rate.  What happens when they are gone?  Where will the summer water supply come from?  http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html
 
It's not just the US.  Europe faces similar problems, as done South America.  Already in Peru, water shortages have reached critical proportions because the glaciers are very nearly disappeared.  What will the people do without water?  Or consider the Himalayan glaciers... the sole source of water for 1.3 billion people in Bangladesh and India.  What will happen when the water runs out?  I'll venture a guess.  Famine, economic upheaval, and potentially war.  The desertification of Africa is leading to similar problems... famine, pirates, and war.
 
If things continue as they way they are going now, and it sure looks like that is what is going to happen, the US is going to become drier and drier (as well as hotter), and temperate crops and plants will move farther and farther north.  There will be large displacements in agriculture because there is not water.  Forested areas, like the Texas Piney Woods will start to disappear... and as it turns out, turning forest into grassland happens very quickly.
 
Global warming is not uniform.  Temperatures will rise the least at the equator and the most at the poles.  Already shipping companies are looking at year round shipping through the Arctic ocean in just a few more years.  Rain and cloud patterns change, ocean currents change because of the heating at the poles.

Neither is it about "deciding what the right temperature for the planet should be".  It is about acknowledging that climate change is already causing significant displacements in weather patterns and is just about guaranteed to produce social unrest, more poverty, and more military actions, as people and countries most affected by climate change struggle to keep the status quo.  What kind of a world do you plan on leaving for your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids?  Right now, we're about to leave them a hell of a mess.

[The Anvil]

Never try to convince them, just put them on your ignore and leave it at that.

  So putting you Head in the sand is your answer?
No one will ever go on my ignore list.

+1 I'll never understand that approach. It's the equivalent of plugging your ears and saying "lalalalala I can't hear you!!!". Childish.

[Hook#3287]

What he (F6CTRider) said   

[junior]

 The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

[F6CTrider]

I think one of the sadly overlooked truths is that as a closed ecological system, our planet can only support a finite number of people.  In pre techno times our population was limited by food supply and disease.  Sounds familiar.  Technology has enable us for the last few centuries to really push these limits to the extreme.  Only through more tech can we continue to push this direction.
If we abandon technology and return to .....oh lets say 1492 levels of production, polution, etc. then we will have to ask about 80% of the global population...to leave!
BTW, I love the pirate thing!   "Help us Al, the pirates are scary!"  LMFAO
Glaciers will come, go, and return in cycles.  So will humans(well we are likely not to return, If we do we better be smarter!).
We cannot continue to overpopulate, over fish, and over harvest a closed system forever.
As for me, I will continue to plant trees, recycle, grow my food, and strive for a minimal footprint.
And I will encourage others to do the same.
Won't be sending money to Al and won't be sensationalizing the everchanging climate.

[Novavalker]

"It's easy to distort the facts when you start from the premise that global warming is a fact and then one must only gather details to support the premise."

"The money is in catastrophic global warming because it's being pushed by a political agenda that wants power. Power in Washington. Power on the international stage. Power over economic development. Power over international monetary decisions. Power over energy. In short, power over the motor of the world. It's driven by literally thousands of large and small non-governmental organizations (NGOs) sanctioned by the United Nations, and implemented by a horde of bureaucrats, university academics and an ignorant but pliable news media."

Your Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids will thank you for voting in clowns that expand government and run up huge national debts.

If your really concerned about Global warming then set an example. Lower your carbon footprint by selling your Valkyrie.

[x]

"It's easy to distort the facts when you start from the premise that global warming is a fact and then one must only gather details to support the premise."

"The money is in catastrophic global warming because it's being pushed by a political agenda that wants power. Power in Washington. Power on the international stage. Power over economic development. Power over international monetary decisions. Power over energy. In short, power over the motor of the world. It's driven by literally thousands of large and small non-governmental organizations (NGOs) sanctioned by the United Nations, and implemented by a horde of bureaucrats, university academics and an ignorant but pliable news media."

Your Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids will thank you for voting in clowns that expand government and run up huge national debts.

If your really concerned about Global warming then set an example. Lower your carbon footprint by selling your Valkyrie.

Well... with a well reasoned argument like this one... the conspiracy theory... I can well understand why the actual fact situation would not apply.

What was it that junior said?  Oh yes. "The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun."

[..]

Did anyone actually READ the article???


Here are some direct quotes for the lazy.

1.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

2.
Dr Nicola Scafetta, of Duke University in North Carolina, is the author of several papers that argue the Met Office climate models show there should have been ‘steady warming from 2000 until now’.
‘If temperatures continue to stay flat or start to cool again, the divergence between the models and recorded data will eventually become so great that the whole scientific community will question the current theories,’ he said.

3.
Pal Brekke, senior adviser at the Norwegian Space Centre, said some scientists found the importance of water cycles difficult to accept, because doing so means admitting that the oceans – not CO2 – caused much of the global warming between 1970 and 1997.

4.
Meanwhile, since the end of last year, world temperatures have fallen by more than half a degree, as the cold ‘La Nina’ effect has re-emerged in the South Pacific.
‘We’re now well into the second decade of the pause,’ said Benny Peiser, director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. ‘If we don’t see convincing evidence of global warming by 2015, it will start to become clear whether the models are bunk. And, if they are, the implications for some scientists could be very serious.’


Back to my words.

Of course our forum experts may know more than the quailified experts. If so please publish your scientific data.

[G-Man]

I am NOT about wasting our resources.  Being green for me has nothing to do with global warming but rather being a good steward of the planet.  We should all strive to do our collective best.  The doom merchants and their "sky is falling" script are just self serving smoke and mirrors.
In my opinion it is all B.S. hype to keep us all bickering about nonsense,  to keep us from seeing the truths that really matter.

I'm with you 100% on this.

But, not only is it to keep us bickering, they want to use it as a source of wealth redistribution, not only within our country, but to ship money to other countries to help them turn green.  All this on the back the hundreds of e-mails discovered that the sources behind the pro-green rhetoric "fixed" the findings to prove their case, aaaaaand, the polar bear numbers are increasing (right Mr. Gore?).

[x]

Did anyone actually READ the article???


Here are some direct quotes for the lazy.

1.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

2.
Dr Nicola Scafetta, of Duke University in North Carolina, is the author of several papers that argue the Met Office climate models show there should have been ‘steady warming from 2000 until now’.
‘If temperatures continue to stay flat or start to cool again, the divergence between the models and recorded data will eventually become so great that the whole scientific community will question the current theories,’ he said.

3.
Pal Brekke, senior adviser at the Norwegian Space Centre, said some scientists found the importance of water cycles difficult to accept, because doing so means admitting that the oceans – not CO2 – caused much of the global warming between 1970 and 1997.

4.
Meanwhile, since the end of last year, world temperatures have fallen by more than half a degree, as the cold ‘La Nina’ effect has re-emerged in the South Pacific.
‘We’re now well into the second decade of the pause,’ said Benny Peiser, director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. ‘If we don’t see convincing evidence of global warming by 2015, it will start to become clear whether the models are bunk. And, if they are, the implications for some scientists could be very serious.’


Back to my words.

Of course our forum experts may know more than the quailified experts. If so please publish your scientific data.

The "data" flies in the face of reality... rising sea levels, retreating glaciers, open waters in the Arctic, disappearance of the Greenland ice shield, collapsing Antarctic ice shelves, changing weather patterns, and more.  Selective use of data to make a (false) assertion is not a new phenomenon.

If it's getting colder, why is everything melting?

[Daniel Meyer]

The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

Just watched that movie a couple nights ago! 

[x]

I am NOT about wasting our resources.  Being green for me has nothing to do with global warming but rather being a good steward of the planet.  We should all strive to do our collective best.  The doom merchants and their "sky is falling" script are just self serving smoke and mirrors.
In my opinion it is all B.S. hype to keep us all bickering about nonsense,  to keep us from seeing the truths that really matter.

I'm with you 100% on this.

But, not only is it to keep us bickering, they want to use it as a source of wealth redistribution, not only within our country, but to ship money to other countries to help them turn green.  All this on the back the hundreds of e-mails discovered that the sources behind the pro-green rhetoric "fixed" the findings to prove their case, aaaaaand, the polar bear numbers are increasing (right Mr. Gore?).

Ummm.... who is "they"?  Is this the "vast left wing conspiracy?"

[x]

The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

Just watched that movie a couple nights ago! 

He he - Planet of the Apes?

[..]

Did anyone actually READ the article???


Here are some direct quotes for the lazy.

1.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

2.
Dr Nicola Scafetta, of Duke University in North Carolina, is the author of several papers that argue the Met Office climate models show there should have been ‘steady warming from 2000 until now’.
‘If temperatures continue to stay flat or start to cool again, the divergence between the models and recorded data will eventually become so great that the whole scientific community will question the current theories,’ he said.

3.
Pal Brekke, senior adviser at the Norwegian Space Centre, said some scientists found the importance of water cycles difficult to accept, because doing so means admitting that the oceans – not CO2 – caused much of the global warming between 1970 and 1997.

4.
Meanwhile, since the end of last year, world temperatures have fallen by more than half a degree, as the cold ‘La Nina’ effect has re-emerged in the South Pacific.
‘We’re now well into the second decade of the pause,’ said Benny Peiser, director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. ‘If we don’t see convincing evidence of global warming by 2015, it will start to become clear whether the models are bunk. And, if they are, the implications for some scientists could be very serious.’


Back to my words.

Of course our forum experts may know more than the quailified experts. If so please publish your scientific data.

The "data" flies in the face of reality... rising sea levels, retreating glaciers, open waters in the Arctic, disappearance of the Greenland ice shield, collapsing Antarctic ice shelves, changing weather patterns, and more.  Selective use of data to make a (false) assertion is not a new phenomenon.

If it's getting colder, why is everything melting?

Selective use of data to make a (false) assertion is not a new phenomenon.
I agree and some of the scientific community are guilty.

[Alien]

Yeah, it's really terrible that the glaciers that used to cover most of North America melted a few thousand years ago. Must have been all the methane in the evil mastodon's feces that left us this awful continent that we barely manage to survive on. Where IS Al Gore when we need him?

I've never met you, but I like you!

[G-Man]

Yeah, it's really terrible that the glaciers that used to cover most of North America melted a few thousand years ago. Must have been all the methane in the evil mastodon's feces that left us this awful continent that we barely manage to survive on. Where IS Al Gore when we need him?

I've never met you, but I like you!

Then you'll LOVE her when you meet her!!

[czuch]

"LALALALALALALALALALALALALALAAAA"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If everyone dosent get on the bandwagon, I.E. India, China,Brazil, the few self rightious wont make a difference. They may feeeel gooood about thimselves. That will be OK.
We have the "Biosphere" a few miles away. Closed loop, semi failure.

[0leman]

OK I will jump in now.   
Most of the "Climate Skeptic's" will concede that the Earth is warming.   It has indeed warmed up since the last "Ice Age".   The real question is how much it will continue to warm up.  The computer models that are being used only look at the CO2 levels. They were programed by folks trying to show that CO2 could effect the earth's weather.   The earth's climate is a lot more complex than these models.   It is like saying you can estimate what the economy will do by looking at a single stock.

As far as extreme weather, look back to the 30's during the dust bowl.  Was that caused by CO2 levels?  Or was it cause by other factors.  This year, Alaska is getting hammered with snow and cold temps, coldest in 40's years.  The extreme weather will continue as it has always done.

Now as far as stuff we are putting the air.  Yeah, It would be great is we could limit it.  Better for all of us.   Not a greenie but do try to do my part, except when it come to riding my Valk. 

[Canuck]

I'll bet that most of the Global Warming doomesdayers have the Y2K doomesday on thier resumes - they need jobs too - just not real jobs!  Wonder what the next wagon will be?

My belief is we are still coming out of the ice age.  Will it get rough for us? Sure will, but we must adapt.  We don't control it.  I remember when we use to blame the Russians when the weather was bad.  Better stock up on water, food and ammunition ( and beer ).

I recycle, but burn gas going no where on my bike!  That balances out doesn't it??

[Novavalker]

"It's easy to distort the facts when you start from the premise that global warming is a fact and then one must only gather details to support the premise."

"The money is in catastrophic global warming because it's being pushed by a political agenda that wants power. Power in Washington. Power on the international stage. Power over economic development. Power over international monetary decisions. Power over energy. In short, power over the motor of the world. It's driven by literally thousands of large and small non-governmental organizations (NGOs) sanctioned by the United Nations, and implemented by a horde of bureaucrats, university academics and an ignorant but pliable news media."

Your Kids, Grandkids and Great Grandkids will thank you for voting in clowns that expand government and run up huge national debts.

If your really concerned about Global warming then set an example. Lower your carbon footprint by selling your Valkyrie.

Well... with a well reasoned argument like this one... the conspiracy theory... I can well understand why the actual fact situation would not apply.

What was it that junior said?  Oh yes. "The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun."

There is no mention of a conspiracy theory in my post. That's your interpretation. The Global Warming movement has become a cash cow for Al Gore, Dr David Suzuki and countless others.

Howard C. Hayden, emeritus professor of physics from the University of Connecticut said:

 "Big money is behind the global-warming propaganda."

Hayden pointed out that global warming is taking place throughout the solar system, underscoring the fact that natural causes and not human beings are driving climate change, which has occurred throughout history.

"Yes, the polar ice caps are shrinking . . . on Mars," he said, "On Mars, the ice caps are melting and small hills are disappearing," adding that warming trends were also being observed on Jupiter, Saturn and Triton.

Citing the fact that human activity is responsible for just 3 per cent of carbon-dioxide emissions on earth, Hayden said that carbon levels in the atmosphere have been rising and falling for 400,000 years.

"We are at the lowest levels in the last 300,000 years," he said. "During the Jurassic period, we had very high levels of carbon dioxide."

"About 97 percent of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere comes from natural sources, not humans," Hayden concluded, adding that global warming is being pushed not by grass roots advocacy groups, but by giant corporations who stand to gain from selling concepts such as carbon tracking and carbon trading.

I think Patrick Moore has a balanced approach to this issue.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4503674/

[razor]

if co2 is the culprit, and that is what they claim, then let's think about it logically.

according to the data, carbon dioxide levels have risen from about 200ppm to 300ppm, and that's creating the problem.  now, that's an increase of 100 parts per million, or an increase of .01% in the atmosphere. That's one hundredth of one percent!

First, it doesn't make logical sense that anything that only makes up about .03% of the atmosphere could affect the temperature of the entire planet.  makes even less sense that .01% would affect it at all.

Also, if we were able to reduce our co2 output by 10%, which would take a really big effort, how would we possibly affect the overall amount of co2 in the atmosphere, if you agree that man hasn't even been responsible for all of the increase.

It is foolish to think that we can affect the temperature with our carbon dioxide output or adjustments to our output.

[Daniel Meyer]

The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

Just watched that movie a couple nights ago! 

He he - Planet of the Apes?

Nope, Armageddon.

Another fav quote from it:
Dr. Banks: (going through the roughnecks' medical reports) Fail. Fail. Depressively fail! One toxicology analysis revealed ketamin, that is a very powerful sedative!
Harry: Sedatives are used all the time, doctor.
Dr. Banks: Well this one's used on horses.
Harry: Some of these guys are pretty big.

[The Anvil]

if co2 is the culprit, and that is what they claim, then let's think about it logically.

according to the data, carbon dioxide levels have risen from about 200ppm to 300ppm, and that's creating the problem.  now, that's an increase of 100 parts per million, or an increase of .01% in the atmosphere. That's one hundredth of one percent!

First, it doesn't make logical sense that anything that only makes up about .03% of the atmosphere could affect the temperature of the entire planet.  makes even less sense that .01% would affect it at all.

Also, if we were able to reduce our co2 output by 10%, which would take a really big effort, how would we possibly affect the overall amount of co2 in the atmosphere, if you agree that man hasn't even been responsible for all of the increase.

It is foolish to think that we can affect the temperature with our carbon dioxide output or adjustments to our output.

I've made my feelings regarding "global warming" well known so I'm not on that bandwagon. But it's well within the realm of possibility that +/- 100ppm could affect a delicate ecosystem.

Likely? I dunno. As mentioned before the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of this being a natural cycle. But don't dismiss the possibility out of hand. There's still a lot we don't know for sure since our ability to measure these things accurately has only been a recent development.


Wanna hear something funny? I've heard nature experts describe termite mounds as "natural formations" even though they're not shaped by the elements. The rationale being that termites are a part of nature. Then WTF are WE??? 

[musclehead]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

No better a source. There is allot of cr@p we are pumping into the atmosphere, and if you don't think there is a down side to that, your are living in the Nile Valley.
 

volcanoes have been pumping a lot more crap then we can even imagine into the atmosphere for longer then we can imagine.  and we're the bad guys? ban volcanoes I say!

[junior]

dam dam them volcanoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hows that? 

[musclehead]

*Shrug* - The only problem is that if the True Believers are correct, and nothing is done, the consequences will be disastrous.  People seem to be smart enough to hedge their bets when it comes to things like fire insurance on their house, but when it comes to climate change are resistant to anything that might mitigate future consequences.

Don't think things are warming up?  Check out the melting glaciers.  Or the Arctic ice pack that is rapidly disappearing.  Or the Greenland ice sheet.  Or the wholesale destruction of pine forests because winter doesn't get cold enough to kill the pine beetle any more.  Or, how about the disappearing antarctic ice shelf?  Sustained droughts in the US and Europe?  These are not temporary phenomena... they are a harbinger of things to come.

don't just say it Mr. SE prove it. what pine forests? which ice pack? the north poles?

we have just had two highly respected hurricane predictors from Colorado look at their 20+ years of predictions and resign acknowledging they have missed the mark in their predictions. the point is if they can't predict whats going to happen in a month or two how can they predict with ANY accuracy what the temperature is going to do in 20 years?

last year OKC at this time was under 2' of snow this year it's like spring time. both are examples of WEATHER, not climate.