How do you stop a street from being built in a city??

[Tx Bohemian]

Our city has plans to widen the street in front of my house. To make it a bypass from one major hwy to another. Which means there will be big trucks and much more traffic. This has been a plan for at least 30 yrs. 
Within the last 30 yrs the city has grown tremendously in this area. And now this street goes through quite a few neighborhoods and more neighborhoods planned.
There was a loop built in the last few years that joins these two hwys and this is only about 1 mile away from this "bypass".
So to me this is a waste of taxpayer money, plus I'm biased cause I live on this street.

Has anyone had any kind of dealings like this or knows what the first step would be to get this plan off the books.
Maybe someone here that is affiliated with street building in a city.

Supposily years ago the people on this street all signed a petition and got the city not to build it back then not sure if that would work now or not.

[Oss]

try to find an endangered species (BESIDES YOURSELF) like a salamander or
bird that ONLY lives on your street and nowhere else in the universe.

Maybe there is a historical building on the block

write a letter to the editor of the local paper detailing the waste

any chance there is OIL under your house (ala Jake Clampett)

otherwise IMHO you are screwed
maybe Solo1 has an idea he has served a city counsel if I recall

[LandElephant]

Bury two rocks and some charcoal and call it an indian burial ground.  Has stopped an 825 Million Dollar Solar field in California.

Sorry for being tongue and cheek there.  As OSS says research endanger species (animal or plant)  It it mets the habitate they might have to stop it.

Land Elephant

[musclehead]

find a couple of arrow heads and place them in an "archeologically sensative" area (your street)

hypotherize about a small newt that lives locally  (on your street)

other then that lawsuits?  the more the better! besides the loser doesn't have to pay 

[solo1]

As Oss says, you are probably screwed!  If it was in long term planning for thirty years, it would be very hard to stop it. A petition would do little good .  A city has to expand otherwise it'll die.  With expansion, comes more traffic, traffic brings changes in the infrastructure.  I can appreciate your problem but having been a councilman for 14 years and a Board of Works member for twenty, I know that you're fighting an uphill battle.  A long shot would be to submit a plan for a different traffic route that would save the city money.

If the city needs right of way, make sure that you're compensated for it fairly.

By the way,  the environmental thing doesn't work unless you get BIG government involved with a lot of lying .   Most of us here don'y like the FEDS getting involved.  It's unbelievable how much Federal regulations cost the local governments.  Local tax dollars gone to waste!!!!!!!!

Another by the way.  Lawsuits cost are simply passed on to the local Joe taxpayer, even less bang for the bucks.  Small  local government is our friend, big government and lawyers are not. (sorry Oss)

[Jess from VA]

My question is... does the property the city plans to widen in front of your house belong solely to you, or does the city/county own an existing easement which is documented in the real estate records/deeds?  This is a question relevant to all of your neighbors as well.  

If the city already owns a frontage easement to all affected homes on the street, you probably have little recourse.  But if the city does not have an existing easement, and plans to take your (and neighbors) property by imminent domain**, you and your neighbors could hire an attorney (collectively to defray expense), to file suit to interfere, delay, tie-up, and perhaps ultimately stop the route down your street (generally, this is done by claiming the value of property to be seized is worth substantially more than is being offered, and this claim also would contemplate the anticipated drop in value of a home with frontage on a major truck route).  Of course, there's power in numbers.

I have a friend who owns a (huge) commercial nursery business in a busy, expensive area of town who fought a road widening plan by local govt.  He turned down a half mil offer, and three years later got 3.XX mil.  He lost the property, but he made enough to never work again (though that was not his plan).  A 50 year old family business that started in the boonies, and the city grew to surround it.

A few phone calls could help you better understand your situation (though going in person will usually work better).  Calling the City office responsible for the project and speaking to someone who knows what they are talking about would be helpful.  Do not tell this person you are adamantly opposed to the project or you will probably get a complete stonewall; instead be polite and nice and just ask all your questions about the plan, how it works, the timetable, yada, yada.  Save any confrontational questions for the end of the conversation; like 'what if I don't agree, or wish to contest this action, or want to alter the plan, what are my options?'  If you know any certified real estate people in town, a call to that person could also prove informative.  


**  http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Imminent+Domain  

 

[solo1]

As long as I've been involved in our city, we have never taken private land by Eminent Domain.
We are presently involved in widening a secondary road and have bought all the necessary private land that we need for new right of way. We also pay compensation for temporary right of way. We compensate for the land and the improvements fairly and have had no complaints or lawsuits.  Of course, i'm speaking only for our city which, in my opinion, is fiscally responsible.

I speak from experience in saying that smaller towns and cities are  NOT an enemy of the residents, they're just trying to provide services with reduced tax income,  despite state and Federal interference.

In my tenure as a councilman trying to do right by my constituents, I had been called many, many names that I won't repeat here.  I couldn't believe the anger on the part of some property owners  who not only stuffed all elected officials in the same bag as the Feds, but also did their best to screw the very local government that was providing them with services. 

[Bob E.]

I'm a civil engineer and design roads and bridges in PA.  But I don't know the rules in TX, so it is hard to say.  But your question is hard to answer without more info.

What type of road do you live on?  2-lane?  
Is it urban or more rural?
Does your driveway enter this roadway? Or does your driveway enter a side-street that accesses this main road?
What is the speed limit?
How many cars/trucks per day?
What type of widening are they planning? Making a 2-lane into a 4-lane? Putting in turning lanes?
What is the terrain like?  Is it flat or hilly?
If they are widening, do they need to acquire some property from you for their right-of-way?

Basically your options are few.  The best would be to voice your opposition to the local municipality.  Organize ALL (or nearly all) of the residents along this street to oppose it.  They should have a public hearing for the project if they haven't already.  Show up and bring your neighbors.  You can argue safety aspects as far as entering/exiting your driveways into a busy multi-lane road, especially if the speed limit is high or if the sight distance is short.  Are they restricting your access?  If they are widening, will you still be able to turn left out of your driveway?  You can argue noise impacts from the added traffic.  You can argue loss of property value due to the above.  If they need property from you, this gives you some leverage.  You might not stop it, but at least you will get some level of compensation.

Trying to attack it as "not needed" or a "waste of money" is an uphill battle.  It is almost guaranteed that they have some traffic study that is based on federal guidelines, projected future traffic volumes and growth, etc. that will show that it is in fact warranted.  You would have to attack that study and disprove its findings, which would likely require hiring a traffic engineer to perform an independent study.  This could run $5000 to $10,000 or more depending on the number of intersections, length of road, etc. only to find out that the study is valid.  Alot of the criteria is somewhat subjective because it is predicting the future, but is generally based on hard numbers.  So as long as they are following the guidelines, they would be covered.  So you would have to argue that it is out of date if the project was planned 30 years ago...but I'm sure they have current traffic data and updated projections. Does your municipality have a "master plan"?  Does the project support that master plan?  If not, you could argue that point.

Figure out ahead of time what your actual objections are, and let them be known.  Be honest with yourself because stopping the project is nearly impossible.  So figure out what you can live with and see if you can get some or all of it.  Generally, I've found the DOT's to be relatively responsive to concerns, especially if they are shared by the entire community.  So while you probably won't stop the project, you might be able to force some changes to make it better for you.

[solo1]

Well said, Bob!

[Jess Tolbirt]

i have a friend here that just went through the same thing...he had one acre of a front yard he now has about 50 feet from his house to the street. the govt stoled his land right out from under him because he wouldnt sell...

[alph]

buy a for sale sign and move.  that's about all you can do.  do it before your value drops too much.

[JimmyG]

Another thing to find out is, if this is a city plan or state planned Hwy.  If it is State planned, you are out of luck in our state. Same thing happened here on a long planned Hwy for over 30 years. Bottom line is who was in power then, who is in power now. Logic does not enter into the equation. If the Governor has big enough cahones, he could swing some weight on it, but other than that, I'd say it's gonna happen if it is state.

[Tx Bohemian]

WOW! Thanks for the info guys!
A little more on my road in these questions:

I'm a civil engineer and design roads and bridges in PA.  But I don't know the rules in TX, so it is hard to say.  But your question is hard to answer without more info.

What type of road do you live on?  2-lane? Basically a city street

Is it urban or more rural? Urban. Up untill a couple of years ago it was the last city street in this section. There was a grass airstrip I could see out my front door. but that closed and there is a neighborhood going up there now which was taken in by the city.

Does your driveway enter this roadway? Yes Or does your driveway enter a side-street that accesses this main road? No, but the new neighborhood does

What is the speed limit? 30 leagaly but it is one of the few straight and smooth roads in this city and people fly down it at least twice the limit


How many cars/trucks per day?  Not sure


What type of widening are they planning? Making a 2-lane into a 4-lane? Yes, I think      Putting in turning lanes? No

What is the terrain like?  Is it flat or hilly? flat


If they are widening, do they need to acquire some property from you for their right-of-way? No

Again, thanks for all the info. I've got quite a bit to do.

[Stormrider65]

Remember when Jerry's world was built in Arlington a couple of years ago?  I think they called it "Imminent Domain".
The power to take private property for public use by a state, municipality, or private person or corporation authorized to exercise functions of public character, following the payment of just compensation to the owner of that property.

Federal, state, and local governments may take private property through their power of eminent domain or may regulate it by exercising their Police Power. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires the government to provide just compensation to the owner of the private property to be taken. A variety of property rights are subject to eminent domain, such as air, water, and land rights. The government takes private property through condemnation proceedings. Throughout these proceedings, the property owner has the right of due process.

Eminent domain is a challenging area for the courts, which have struggled with the question of whether the regulation of property, rather than its acquisition, is a taking requiring just compensation. In addition, private property owners have begun to initiate actions against the government in a kind of proceeding called inverse condemnation.

I think that you might be screwed.  No, I am not a lawyer or anything associated with that.  But after seeing what happened in Arlington, and talking with a few people, it doesn't look good.  Like everyone else, if you can find oil, indian burial ground, endangered species, or something the local nature lovers can fight to preserve. you may not have no choice.  

Walt
 

[x]

I doubt you have much recourse.  If it was planned for 30 years then it isn't like they just snuck up on you.  Second, if you check the parcel maps, you'll probably find that the street easement already extends into your property, meaning that although the street is narrower now, that lawn in front of you next to the street doesn't really belong to you, it is part of the street easement.
 
Although my street in Houston will never be widened, if you look at the parcel maps, you can see that the street easement extends a good 15 feet in from the curb.  I think you'll find this to be common practice in Texas.  The land you own and can control doesn't actually run all the way to the curb.
 
There was a similar fight in Houston years ago when Chimney Rock north of Westheimer was widened... two extra lanes of traffic... the neighborhood fought hard but was doomed... on the books for 30 years, easements in place all that time... everyone who bought could see this on a parcel map.

[Bob E.]

WOW! Thanks for the info guys!
A little more on my road in these questions:

I'm a civil engineer and design roads and bridges in PA.  But I don't know the rules in TX, so it is hard to say.  But your question is hard to answer without more info.

What type of road do you live on?  2-lane? Basically a city street

Is it urban or more rural? Urban. Up untill a couple of years ago it was the last city street in this section. There was a grass airstrip I could see out my front door. but that closed and there is a neighborhood going up there now which was taken in by the city.

Does your driveway enter this roadway? Yes Or does your driveway enter a side-street that accesses this main road? No, but the new neighborhood does

What is the speed limit? 30 leagaly but it is one of the few straight and smooth roads in this city and people fly down it at least twice the limit


How many cars/trucks per day?  Not sure


What type of widening are they planning? Making a 2-lane into a 4-lane? Yes, I think      Putting in turning lanes? No

What is the terrain like?  Is it flat or hilly? flat


If they are widening, do they need to acquire some property from you for their right-of-way? No

Again, thanks for all the info. I've got quite a bit to do.

It seems to me, without actually looking at the plans, that you would have an arguement regarding safety.  A 30mph limit is pretty slow, but if traffic is regularly exceeding this by a large amount, you could argue that it creates a safety issue entering and exiting your driveway, especially when turning left or if your driveway is one that you need to back out onto the street.  You could take some video of the speeding cars, or even take some video while driving showing your speedometer at 30mph and getting passed or pacing even faster to keep up with traffic, although recording yourself breaking the speed limit probably isn't smart.  And show this to the local officials.  If nothing else, you might get the local municipality to do a speed study to get the official speed. 

Now, none of this will kill the project.  However, they may make some improvements.  The resolution for them would likely be some added enforcement to get speeds down and installing some "traffic calming" measures like stop signs or traffic signals every couple blocks.  They may even lower the limit farther to 25mph, which is pretty much the lowest any roads are posted.  These measures also have the added benefit of actually reducing the traffic because people see it as a pain in the ass to go that route because of all of the stops.  Or perhaps they even build a center turning lane to help with the left turns.  So either way, your true concerns are addressed.  Also, if it truely is dangerous to turn left out of your driveway...which having multiple lanes often does...you could make some fuss about your access being negatively affected, which impacts your property value, which you could try and get some compensation for.  But that may require some legal action at your cost, so there is some risk there.  On the other hand, depending on zoning, etc. this "improvement" to the street could actually positively impact your property value...especially if some developer decides he wants to snag up a few parcels to put a strip mall, fast food, or even a gas station in the area.  I've actually seen this happen after some of our projects have been built.

Regarding eminent domain, it doesn't look like it will apply in your case.  But it is my experience that they will try to avoid this at nearly all costs.  They will try to work with the property owner to get an amicable settlement and will often pay a bit above fair market value if you press them.  And there are a couple reasons for this.  First, eminent domain is just politically bad press for public agencies.  Second, the process of eminent domain can drag out and delay a project for quite some time while it foes through the courts.  And finally, the legal process is costly.  They would rather pay the premium to the property owner and not be perceived as the big bad govt taking from the public...it will cost them the same either way.  So it is a last resort to deal with folks who are just refusing to deal at any price.  Also, they use it as some leverage because they can say, we'll pay you $XX dollars now, or we could take it through eminent domain and you'll likely get less...and still have to give up the property.