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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 01:57:24 PM » |
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That's a sad commentary on the local governments values. Hopefully he will get some legal help from the NRA. I'm hoping he is a member but I'm pretty sure they/we help non-members too.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964  |
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16940
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 01:59:22 PM » |
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Makes ya wanta pack up and move to NH Huh?
NOT
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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HayHauler
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 02:06:11 PM » |
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Happened here in Houston last week. A man saw a thief running with a ladies purse and his neighbor screaming for help. He chased the guy with his 50 cal handgun, fired a round into the ground. The perp stopped and gave up. The man was held until the police arrived and was arrested. No charges were filed against the home owner. God Bless Texas. Hay  Jimmyt |
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musclehead
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 02:46:41 PM » |
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Happened here in Houston last week. A man saw a thief running with a ladies purse and his neighbor screaming for help. He chased the guy with his 50 cal handgun, fired a round into the ground. The perp stopped and gave up. The man was held until the police arrived and was arrested. No charges were filed against the home owner. God Bless Texas. Hay Jimmyt crime don't pay too much in Texas, or at least in theory it shouldn't. |
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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Titan
Member
Posts: 819
BikeLess
Lexington, SC
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 02:48:07 PM » |
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Happened here in Houston last week. A man saw a thief running with a ladies purse and his neighbor screaming for help. He chased the guy with his 50 cal handgun, fired a round into the ground. The perp stopped and gave up. The man was held until the police arrived and was arrested. No charges were filed against the home owner. God Bless Texas. Hay Jimmyt Who got arrested? The bad guy or the man who fired the gun to stop the bad guy? |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 03:55:53 PM » |
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Read it this morning. The ground shooter may not be prosecuted. DA is looking at it. I said it before..... if you don't have just cause to use lethal force (meaning an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm to you or others), then shooting at all is ill advised. A guy climbing out a window, with no visible weapon in his hand, is not showing a lethal threat. If you are certain you have a perp and not a daughter's boyfriend (or some such), drawing and pointing and ordering to get down is probably good. Shooting into the ground is ill advised (in the concrete city or suburban area for sure, but even in the country dirt, you are taking a chance). |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 04:53:20 PM by Jess from VA »
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Titan
Member
Posts: 819
BikeLess
Lexington, SC
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 04:33:00 PM » |
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I think you're right, Jess. I know there's more to this story that we don't know but I suspect the warning shot is what got the guy into the mess he's in. One part of this story that I have a problem with however, without knowing all the details, is why they had a right to seize all his guns.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 04:44:07 PM » |
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I think you're right, Jess. I know there's more to this story that we don't know but I suspect the warning shot is what got the guy into the mess he's in. One part of this story that I have a problem with however, without knowing all the details, is why they had a right to seize all his guns.
The warning shot is why he was arrested. I have no idea how the firearm roundup was legal. Bet they didn't have a warrant to enter his house on scene, bet they coerced him into giving consent (not a beating, saying his cooperation would be appreciated, after he is already cufffed, and maybe Mirandized). I bet the likely illegal confiscation (the firearms in the house, not he pistol in his hand) helps the prosecutor decide to let him go. Remember this, when shooting into the ground or air, it is only your word that this was a warning shot, for all they know you were trying to hit him. (so don't do it) |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 04:50:49 PM by Jess from VA »
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sugerbear
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 05:04:33 PM » |
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wanna take bets, he doesn't get his guns back?
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ptgb
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 05:44:18 PM » |
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I think you're right, Jess. I know there's more to this story that we don't know....
I have found that 9 times out of 10, that's it. There is more to it than is reported. As far as guns being taken, in many cases if they are looking at it as a menacing or terroristic threats case (or whatever other name a state uses for a "threats" case), guns will be taken for safe-keeping. If no charges the guns go back. If charges, and then person is found/pleads guilty... part of the plea bargain/sentencing may be surrendering the weapon(s) for destruction. I have an evidence room with many guns that are held like that. Most go back, some go in the blast furnace. Not saying whether I agree with it or not...  Discuss... |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 05:45:54 PM by ptgb »
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 Lower Lakes 1000 - 07/07 & 09/10 * Bun Burner GOLD - 09/10 Lake Superior 1000 - 07/11 * Lake Michigan 1000 - 09/11 * Lake Huron 1000 - 09/11 Saddlesore 2000 - 09/11 * Ohio 1000 - 07/13 |
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CajunRider
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 05:55:12 PM » |
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There's only ONE way to make a robber realize you're serious about the gun pointed at him...
"Center Mass".
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Sent from my Apple IIe
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 7028
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 06:14:32 PM » |
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Our government is doing EVERYTHING in its power to convince us that we are not to DEFEND ourselves in any way shape or form.
They want you conditioned to call 911 for everything.
This helps them to CONTROL the "fine Americans".
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1 Corinthians 1:18  |
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Gear Jammer
Member
Posts: 3074
Yeah,,,,,It's a HEMI
Magnolia, Texas
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 06:26:11 PM » |
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In Texas, the "warning'' shot is the one that puts a hole in the guy...  |
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 "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. |
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Trynt
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 10:14:40 AM » |
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Read it this morning. The ground shooter may not be prosecuted. DA is looking at it. I said it before..... if you don't have just cause to use lethal force (meaning an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm to you or others), then shooting at all is ill advised. A guy climbing out a window, with no visible weapon in his hand, is not showing a lethal threat. If you are certain you have a perp and not a daughter's boyfriend (or some such), drawing and pointing and ordering to get down is probably good. Shooting into the ground is ill advised (in the concrete city or suburban area for sure, but even in the country dirt, you are taking a chance). Currently MN laws are the same. Simply pointing a firearm at someone without just cause for lethal force can result in felony assault charges. "Displaying" a gun can lead to brandishing charges. You actually fire the weapon, you've got a serious problem. Whether or not you are actually charged would depend upon the local prosecutor and the circumstances. In MN you can not use lethal force to protect property. |
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Serk
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 11:37:16 AM » |
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Anyone notice that our resident gun toting NH based pundit hasn't been seen much lately?
Hmmm...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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HayHauler
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 12:34:20 PM » |
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DIGGER
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 01:25:46 PM » |
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Put me on the jury.......JUST PUT ME ON THE JURY!!!!!!
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hubcapsc
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Posts: 16824
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 01:50:44 PM » |
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The warning shot is why he was arrested.
I took a handgun safety course last night, it wasn't a CWP course, but some questions of that ilk came up. I'm not quoting the instructor or anything, and he wasn't speaking as a lawyer anyhow, but he said something about "warning shots" are not one of the approved uses of fire arms... -Mike |
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HayHauler
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 02:17:59 PM » |
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The warning shot is why he was arrested.
I took a handgun safety course last night, it wasn't a CWP course, but some questions of that ilk came up. I'm not quoting the instructor or anything, and he wasn't speaking as a lawyer anyhow, but he said something about "warning shots" are not one of the approved uses of fire arms... -Mike Roger That! Hay Jimmyt |
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x
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 04:14:48 PM » |
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Our government is doing EVERYTHING in its power to convince us that we are not to DEFEND ourselves in any way shape or form.
They want you conditioned to call 911 for everything.
This helps them to CONTROL the "fine Americans".
Hunh? Another conspiracy? |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 04:48:09 PM » |
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In MN you can not use lethal force to protect property.
Using lethal force to protect property alone is legal nowhere, except maybe TX.
Now if that property is a USAF missile silo or Area 51 (Groom Lake), or the White House, or a Broken Arrow, or about any 'posted' G enclave I wouldn't test that theory with a trespass.
Posted here generally includes fairly clear language like... "deadly force is authorized." Not like you can get from your local zoning authority.
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 04:53:00 PM by Jess from VA »
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vicrider
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 06:44:05 PM » |
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That is one of the reasons our ammo costs so much...Every bullet comes with a lawyer attached. Sad but true. IF you have a LEGAL right to carry a gun you may only use to protect your life, your families life, or that of another person in mortal danger, and you best know before you draw that the person in "mortal danger" is not the perp. In OK we have the "make my day" law which gives you quite a bit of latitude in a home invasion. You do not have to prove you are in mortal danger, nor do you ever have to retreat on your own property from a perceived threat. I have a legal CCW license but seldom carry it around our small town because I'm often going into gov't buildings and post office so it just stays out of sight. I keep it readily open and available in drives to any major city, and on me when I leave vehicle unless I'm going into a "No Gun" area. When living in MN I did not bother to get the license because not many other states acknowledged it. Now in OK I have legal right to carry when traveling in most of the non-fascist states thruout the south and north. It's mainly IL and the coasts that don't allow a person to defend himself. Here's a good site to check on which states share reciprocity with your home state for carry (legal). http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html |
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T-Bird
Member
Posts: 2487
A friend is one who takes me for what I am.
Cleveland, Tennessee
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 06:59:44 PM » |
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Last year we had a city councilman who saw a a guy stealing an old push mower from his neighbor and started shooting at him. The guy took off in his truck with the councilman in pursuit. A few miles down the road with an empty magazine the councilman then wrecks his vehicle into the thiefs truck and they both crash into a downtown building with people standing nearby. Luckily nobody was injured and the thief went to jail and the councilman was portrayed a hero in the local news.  (bullits were found the next day lodged in the walls of a local funeral home!!!!) All this over a $50.00 push mower  |
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:58:55 PM by T-Bird »
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 07:35:57 PM » |
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Last year we had a city councilman who saw a a guy stealing an old push mower from his neighbor and started shooting at him. The guy took off in his truck with the councilman in pursuit. A few miles down the road with an empty magazine the councilman then wrecks his vehicle into the thiefs car and they both crash into a downtown building with people standing nearby. Luckily nobody was injured and the thief went to jail and the councilman was portrayed a hero in the local news. (bullits were found the next day lodged in the walls of a local funeral home!!!!) All this over a $50.00 push mower Bonehead behavior like that would get the Councilman a term of years in a penitentiary in many jurisdictions in the US (and he deserved at least 90 days and a big fine anywhere!). Felonious assault w firearm, felonious driving, reckless endangerment to others with firearm, felony reckless property damage to building (if big $ damages). |
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 03:44:27 AM » |
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The guy would probably be subject to arrest in Texas. They teach this in the CCW classes. Here are a few citations from Texas law.
About using threats of deadly force.
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Using deadly force to protect a person or third person.
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
But for property, the threat of deadly force or the use of deadly force is only legal at night time. Therefore, the guy who shot into the ground would be indictable by a Texas grand jury, if he did so during daylight hours and only to protect property. In other words, you can't shoot someone in the daytime for stealing your welder or car, but you can do so at night.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
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DIGGER
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 04:46:02 AM » |
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The warning shot is why he was arrested.
I took a handgun safety course last night, it wasn't a CWP course, but some questions of that ilk came up. I'm not quoting the instructor or anything, and he wasn't speaking as a lawyer anyhow, but he said something about "warning shots" are not one of the approved uses of fire arms... -Mike Problem is, that the thief probably wouldn't have stopped had the guy not shot into the ground.......he got another thief off the street.....probably just for the night..........he's a hero in my book |
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Cliff
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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2012, 09:34:07 AM » |
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:54:54 AM by Cliff »
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VRCC # 29680
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2012, 02:39:47 PM » |
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Every so often, justice is done.
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The Anvil
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2012, 01:02:56 PM » |
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Everybody can just relax now. Never should have been filed in the first place but life isn't always fair.
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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