Moly Paste or Grease

[Crashgordon74]

O.K. I hope I don't open up a can of worms here. Which is better for the final drive splines Guard Dog 525 or 570??

                                                            Thanks
                                                                Crash  ???

[Brian]

To keep things simple I just to went the dealer and bought the recommened Honda moly paste.

[Crashgordon74]

I've only had the rear tire off once before and I used the 570 at that time. The 525 is something new and I was wondering if it's any better.

                                                             

[xman]

I'm doing my first rear drive service (disclaimer) so no knowledge here. But from what I have found here many have used Bel Ray grease for the finial drive splines and drive shaft splines. Anyone disagree?

Tom

[quexpress]

O.K. I hope I don't open up a can of worms here. Which is better for the final drive splines Guard Dog 525 or 570??

                                                            Thanks
                                                                Crash  ???

Posted by our friend/fellow rider Airetime in 2005 (geez time flies Dave!).

Re: Guard Dog GD 525 versus GD 570 = The Answer is
Emailed Ben and here is the answer.

David, good question.

GD-525 and GD-570 reflect meeting a demand.

Initial demand came from owners of BMW and Moto Guzzi for a moly treatment for the gear oil for the final drive. Later, some Gold Wing owners, as well as BMW owners, asked for a moly paste, because they could not find it readily (even from dealers). Then, recently demand from Valkyrie owners has materialized for a spline lube that stays put.

In all instances, it seems that a moly paste, put on splines of some bikes, dissipate over time. I have pictures and the parts themselves from BMWs that show the wear on splines to the point they had to be replaced. Whether the parts were neglected (not relubricated adequately, or the lubricant disappeared, I do not know.)

The traditional lube for Honda's shaft splines has been a moly paste from Honda. Not having made comparative testing, we cannot make a statement to the effect our paste is better than Honda's. But, I have reasons to believe our moly paste is superior to Honda's.

Leading up to the answer to your question, we are not in a position to tell owners to use GD-525 even though Honda says use a moly paste. Based on what I know about moly lubricants and the application in question, GD-525 will do a better job. Yes, a moly paste has more moly, but there is more to a lubricant than the percentage content of moly. If the lubricant "goes away" some of the benefits of the moly go away, too. GD-525 has two kinds of lubricating solids. In combination they provide protection against wear equally as well as a moly paste with 70% moly--maybe better in that application. The main, observable advantage of GD-525 is its capability to stay put. A moly paste does not have the "tackiness" to stay put.

Apparantly, the Valkyrie design has a unique problem with maintaining a moly paste on the spline where as the other shaft cycles do not.

(GD-525 is an excellent grease for any mechanical moving part on the cycle, except the wheel bearing and chain.)

In summary, what is the difference? GD-525 stays put in the condition when GD-570 will dissipate. But they are both premium lubricants for the spline.

Sincerely,

Ben Mathes
Posted By: Airetime VSSS
Date: 7/3/2005 at 08:14:19

[sandy]

Honda's paste isn't waterproof and if you check it every 8K miles, it's just fine. But most tires last a lot longer than the originals so the paste won't last that long. My splines were switched to Bel Ray at the first tire change. I now have 126K on the bike and at the last tire change I took photos of the splines. Here's the photo at 112K miles. Doing the math, that's 14K on the current Avon Cobra and it's not worn out yet.

[Jess from VA]

Having read on the subject here many times, and having bought the Honda Moly Paste, I put a thin coat of the paste on the freshly cleaned splines, then simply load the whole area with a bunch of  waterproof synthetic grease (like with a spatula).  I suspect the grease is better than the paste, but I already paid for the paste.  Yes, I put so much that I always get some throw-up after reassembly and riding, but cleanup is no problem.  More is better, esp with car tire longevity.

[ptgb]

As usual (with a "which to use" thread) it will eventually become as clear as mud to you.  

Me personally, have changed out the rear about four times so far.

Three of those times used Guard Dog Moly Grease 525 on the driveshaft going into the U-joint and on the driveshaft/pinion cup end. Those same three times I used Guard Dog Moly Paste 570 on the final drive flange/final drive. All worked great, no problems.

That one time I used the Belray only on the driveshaft/ujoint/pinion cup connected areas. I got rust and worn driveshaft/pinion cup after less than 9 months/8000 miles. Can't say it was because of the Belray, as I did drive through the biggest rainstorm I've ever ridden... but I went back to the Guard Dog 525/570 and didn't have a problem this last time.

Also, make sure you are aware of the tightening sequence on the axle/final drive or you are sure to get abnormal wear on the splines.

Good luck and try not to over-think it, as I am prone to do. All the excellent advice here on the VRCC has made me a pretty confident mechanic of my Valks.  

[Ricky-D]

It is not so important as to what grease to use as is to "just do it".

Ignoring service to the rear drive is what cashes them in.

Regular service maintains quality.

***

[Crashgordon74]

Well, thanks for all the feedback. I think I'll go with the 525 grease.

                                                                      Crash

[GotValk]

I've just done mine,I only have 51,000 miles on my bike and the spline looks just like Sandy's,
But I also feel that Ricky-D made the best statement " just do it", My bike has been using a synthetic brake caliper grease with wonderful results!
Also I only got 14,200 out of my Cobra rear tire, (Badly cupped ) I ran 40 - 42 psi in that tire too, last last year I had noticed the dreaded wobble which made me buy new shock bushings but the old ones where fine, the front looked really good ( changed that too nothing like a pair of new shoes).

 just lube it !

[Brian]

Is the Guard Dog products available over the counter at auto parts stores or mail order only?

[ptgb]

Is the Guard Dog products available over the counter at auto parts stores or mail order only?

Mail order only:

http://guarddogmolylubricants.com/

He is really great to work with. Called him to get some moly paste two weeks ago. Mentioned I was trying to get it before the weekend (it was a Tuesday), so I could get my tire change done. Wasn't able to pay until the next day (was tied up at work)... he shipped it before I even paid him.

[F6MoRider]

Having changed my rear tire six times, the u-joint once, and after reading some of the comments here, I'd tend to agree with the "just do it" approach when it comes to lubing the rear end.  Changing the o-rings may have greater potential benefit, along with waterproof lube, than the choice of lubricant as they hold the lube in place.  Rode through two days of solid rain as well from Dallas to Tallahassee and no rust or damage or water in the rear end.

I used the Moly EB brake grease two times and simple brake grease once, had to use what was available, and did so without any degradation what-so-ever.  This last time, I used the Guard Dog 570 on the final drive, and both splines ends (u-joint and the pinion cup) of the shaft.  I did follow the correct procedure for installing the rear, loosen the four nuts, mount the rear, then tighten them, except once.  Still no problems. 

I've got an extra rear wheel assembly, shaft, brake caliper, and swing arm from a trike conversion someone sold me years ago along with the saddlebags.  So I can always pull the spares off the shelf if the 570 fails.

I'll pull it off in three months and check it as I took pics for just this purpose. 

[Brian]

Thanks for the link.They sure are proud of their product. I sure hope the price is well worth it. I do not neglect the rear splines checking them every year at this time. I will plan to order the product here soon.

[Grumpy]

I agree not what you use, but doing it when it is due, personally I use the Honda Moly, picture was last Friday, 72,000 miles. Splines still look new.

[indybobm]

I would like to see pictures of the rear splines right after the wheel is pulled and before it is cleaned up.

[Crashgordon74]

If I remember to I'll post pics after I take mine apart. It'll be 7500 miles and 9 years since this was done! Wow I guess I don't ride much!!!

[Brian]

I was planning to pull my rear wheel this weekend. I will try to take a before and after picture to share with the group. I used the Honda moly paste by itself at the last tire change 3,000 miles ago.I had been through any rain storms in this period.

[98valk]

I use a thin coat of copper anti-sieze first, as honda does for initial install, (prevents galling and corrosion),
 then use TS-70 moly paste.

http://www.tsmoly.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=84

TS-70 is a general purpose moly paste with many uses. It has proven to be an outstanding lubricant for a saltwater environment, above and below the surface: subsea riser, BOP, flange equipment and structural bolts. Other applications are components for press fittings, threads in tapping, boundary lubricating of parts in assembly and make-up, bushings of heavily loaded slow moving bearings, and many more.

[Robert]

Belray