Unintended Consequences - Meds

[Bigwolf]

Several years ago my doctors got crazy about my cholesterol level and prescribed Zocor to lower the cholesterol.  I quikly became very depressed and angry while my cholesterol level dropped only a few points.  My doctors insisted that it was not the medicine causing my anger and depression but I began to get better only after I stopped taking the Zocor.  Some of my friends have had the same kind of experience.

I wonder if some of the PMS happening on these forums is aggravated by some prescription med.

I also have trouble with other highly prescribed meds.  If I take aspirin for more than a few days in a row, I get exhausted to the point of being unable to do much of anything.  Yes, the docs also told me that was not the aspirin but I have rechecked this several times.  I even tried a baby aspirin every other day with the same results.   

Last year my doctors had me taking an antacid for an ulcer.  After a few months of this, a regular blood test showed my thyroid was low and there were some other new problems so the doc wanted to start me on synthroid and a host of other meds.  I decided to research the antacid just to be sure.  You guessed it!  The antacid was the root cause of all these new problems.  I stopped using the antacid and all is back to norm for me.  My doc acted shocked and said "but that only happens in less than 1% of the population".  Well it happened to me!  And I had to be the one to catch it!      What am I paying these doctors for?  I think that one percent is wrong.  I know a lot of people that have not realized the negative side effects of the prescription drugs they are taking so they never report it and then it never gets considered or added to the percentages.   

I did not intend to get on a rant here but have recently been arguing with doctors again over their lack of knowlege and I have been watching the irritability of several members here.  The thought came to me that some of the irritability in these forums could be the result of more than just "parked motorcycle syndrome".

Food for thought,
BigWolf

[Alien]

Could be.  I get moody every time I mix cornflakes and PCP.

[Flat6Valk]

Im on 4 meds for my heart and I wonder what is making me drag my ass around.  I have an appointment coming up soon.  I think I will hog tie my doc till he tells me what all the side effects are. Im not angry tho............yet!

[Doc809]

Go ahead and get angry flat6.  You can bet your backside that 4 heart meds make you feel like crap.  If your doctor won't talk to you about the meds and their side effects, then find a new doctor. There is one on every corner.  You don't have to put up with one who won't talk to you!!  A doctor mixing two drugs that should not have been mixed caused my son's death.  That's what motivated me to get into healthcare on the medicine side.  Now I probably talk too much (go figure) to my patients but I make darn sure they know what I am doing and what they are doing and never force anything on to an individual.  It is not my place to dictate to them.  It is my place to educate them and help them make good choices.  Sorry, I think that is the way medicine was once practiced!

[olddog1946]

I could certainly see that meds could be a possible cause of the heart burn rampant in here..I personally can't believe how many drugs are prescribed for anything and everything. My wife is addicted to pain killers and has been for the last 11 years. Hence, I don't even like to take an aspirin let alone anything prescribed by a "Doctor"...
So be warned, If I am Grumpy and abrupt it IS because I am grumpy and abrupt...period.

[ptgb]

The minute the doctor wanted to put me on blood pressure, cholesterol, and diabetic meds over a two year period (at age 39), it woke me up to the possible road ahead.

This "take a pill" for everything mentality; I truly feel hurts many.

I decided to deal with it the hard way... eat right and work out... lost 85 pounds. All that ailed me went away.

I have seen many (even family members) who have delved into the take a pill mentality... got one on 18 different prescriptions and isn't even 50 years old yet. All for what? They are constantly feeling like crap and are going to doctor's appointments to get this or that straightened out.

Might be wrong to say, but I don't have much faith in doctors, I think many do more harm then good.

[DenverDave]

If your doctor won't talk to you about the meds and their side effects, then find a new doctor. There is one on every corner.  You don't have to put up with one who won't talk to you!!  A doctor mixing two drugs that should not have been mixed caused my son's death.  That's what motivated me to get into healthcare on the medicine side.  Now I probably talk too much (go figure) to my patients but I make darn sure they know what I am doing and what they are doing and never force anything on to an individual.  It is not my place to dictate to them.  It is my place to educate them and help them make good choices.  Sorry, I think that is the way medicine was once practiced!

+1

[bassman]

I can relate too.....

New doctor last year.....old doctor of 25+ years retired.  First thing the "new" doctor did was change
my meds.  Put me on Tekturna for high blood pressure.  Within two days of starting the Tekturna I
developed a constant terrible cough - 24/7 for about 7 weeks.  Worst cough I've ever experienced.
During the 7 weeks I went back to my new doctor 3 times, urgent care twice, had a lung x-ray, CAT
Scan, pulmonary tests and a visit to an ENT.  No one could find anything wrong with me.  I asked EACH of the doctors and medical personnel about the Tekturna and was told the med was "highly unlikely" the cause of my cough.  I had researched the med online and read that a "persistent cough" was a possible side effect in 1% or  less of the population.  I ended up taking myself off Tekturna and the cough disappeared in less than 48 hours.  Told my "new" doctor what I did and he was "very surprised" but glad the cough stopped.
 
Next he put me on some type of water pill to supplement another med.  Next thing I knew I had a rash covering the upper half of my body.  Trip to the derm and the "new" doctor and was told the side effects only impacts 1% or less of the population.....yadda yadda yadda.........
 
I'm in the process of replacing my "new" doctor with another "new" doctor..........very hard finding a good doctor..... 

[sugerbear]

If your doctor won't talk to you about the meds and their side effects, then find a new doctor. There is one on every corner.  You don't have to put up with one who won't talk to you!!  A doctor mixing two drugs that should not have been mixed caused my son's death.  That's what motivated me to get into healthcare on the medicine side.  Now I probably talk too much (go figure) to my patients but I make darn sure they know what I am doing and what they are doing and never force anything on to an individual.  It is not my place to dictate to them.  It is my place to educate them and help them make good choices.  Sorry, I think that is the way medicine was once practiced!

+1


+2

rhumatology doc nearly killed me. had me on immunity suppressant, took me so low i caught a really bad pneumonia and almost died (was told by another doc "4 days more and we couldn't have stopped it")

found another rhumatologist, he took me off, put me on another, does blood test every 3 months chest x-ray too.  slowly going downhill but better than kicking off.

interview the doc just like hiring an employee. if your questions aren't answered the way you like, find another.

[alph]

i'd stop going to the doctor if he gives you stuff that makes you feel like crap.  my wife and i get a kick out of the medication comercials on TV, and the 20 seconds of sped up speach about the multiple "symtoms" of taking the pills!!

[Grumpy]

The doctors can screw up and do, when I had a stroke 5 months ago,they prescribed Ticlopidine. Dam stuff made me sick as a dog, joints hurt so bad, after two days I could barely walk, did not sleep for two days due to the pain, called the doc and he stated it was the best med, told him to stick it in the neither regions. Went to my old family Doc, he put me on Plavix, no problems since. Some just don't want to accept what the patient says, I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I've got this I pad resting on a nearly useless leg due to an infection caused by having a plate and screws removed. The plate and screws were installed in 2008 and I wonder now as I have many times why I didn't refuse getting them installed in the first place. By the way, I lost my dad and one son to medical misadventures.

[sugerbear]

The doctors can screw up and do, when I had a stroke 5 months ago,they prescribed Ticlopidine. Dam stuff made me sick as a dog, joints hurt so bad, after two days I could barely walk, did not sleep for two days due to the pain, called the doc and he stated it was the best med, told him to stick it in the neither regions. Went to my old family Doc, he put me on Plavix, no problems since. Some just don't want to accept what the patient says, I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

having a few years working in a dr's office, i can say with without a doubt. they DO get kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. i've seen pharmacy reports stating how much a drug the dr has prescribed. the drug rep then "thanks" the dr by giving them m,any things(just not money).  trips, electronics, you name it(or rather the dr does) and it's his.

not just one time/one dr..  as a peon, i got to talk to other "peons" who see the same thing, day in day out.

case in point. having trouble sleeping? ask you dr for "desyrel" it's an anti-depressant.

works great to help you sleep, not habit forming and cheap. he's "never heard of it" but here is the latest sleep aid. they won't offer it because they don't get a kickback for it.

and no "trazadone" doesn't work as well.

[Bigwolf]

Grumpy, I could not take ticlopidine either.  I immediately broke out with an all over itchy red rash.  The Plavix scares me too.  I took it for a while but began to forget where I was and what I was doing there.  After taking it for a few weeks, I had a blackout at work and had already been feeling muscle tingling and exhaustion just like with aspirin so I stopped taking it.  My confusion dissapeared and my short term memory came back.  My brother also tried Plavix at the request of his doctor and he also became confused and dissoriented while taking plavix.  Be careful with Plavix.  Also, be aware of the lawsuits against Plavix:  http://www.youhavealawyer.com/plavix/fda-warning/

PTGB,

Might be wrong to say, but I don't have much faith in doctors, I think many do more harm then good.

+1    I believe there are a few good doctors today but they are in the minority.  The take a pill and party on mentality is part of the problem IMHO.

Doc809, you sound like a doc I would enjoy knowing.

In defense of todays doctors, I think they also get lied to and missled by the drug companies.   They are human and therefore do make mistakes. 

What angers me is the drug companies pushing drugs they know are causing more harm and doctors that are prescrbing drugs to patients just to increase their own wealth.  It just shows money is king!  Another thing that makes me angry is doctors that refuse to listen and are too dumb to understand much of human biology.  I keep running into the latter and I cannot help but wonder where they got a license to practice.

Speaking of "practice", I would rather they practice on someone else.  I want them to know what they are doing when they come to help me.

Bigwolf

[Jess from VA]

The internet is a wonderful library.  There are many sites where you can research your prescribed or proposed meds.  Yes, some of the medical information is too complex to follow, but if you keep reading and looking at different sites, you can find out about everything that's ever been written about each med, contraindications, med mixes, etc.  So if you are on a constant supply of one or more meds, take some time and do some reading.  Your doctor does not know all this stuff, and you are only 15-20 minutes of his day.  

Just for instance, many of us daily take the small children's aspirin (enteric coated) as a precaution for heart attack (thou the evidence shows it is best at preventing a 2d heart attack, not necessarily the 1st).  However, there is some newer info suggesting this practice could adversely affect your eyesight/eyes.  My doc (a good one) had never heard of it, so I emailed him the articles.  I'm still taking it, because of a family history of heart disease, and my eyes, such as they are, seem to be doing OK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2044690/Over-65s-daily-aspirin-twice-likely-suffer-age-related-sight-loss.html

Research your own meds............ dammit!

[MacDragon]

having a few years working in a dr's office, i can say with without a doubt. they DO get kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. i've seen pharmacy reports stating how much a drug the dr has prescribed. the drug rep then "thanks" the dr by giving them m,any things(just not money).  trips, electronics, you name it(or rather the dr does) and it's his.

not just one time/one dr..  as a peon, i got to talk to other "peons" who see the same thing, day in day out.

case in point. having trouble sleeping? ask you dr for "desyrel" it's an anti-depressant.

works great to help you sleep, not habit forming and cheap. he's "never heard of it" but here is the latest sleep aid. they won't offer it because they don't get a kickback for it.

and no "trazadone" doesn't work as well.

This is not the first time I've heard this... Doctors WANT you on scrpts... that's one of the ways they get paid.... Keep you medicated.

[G-Man]

I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

NO THEY DO NOT!

[G-Man]

The doctors can screw up and do, when I had a stroke 5 months ago,they prescribed Ticlopidine. Dam stuff made me sick as a dog, joints hurt so bad, after two days I could barely walk, did not sleep for two days due to the pain, called the doc and he stated it was the best med, told him to stick it in the neither regions. Went to my old family Doc, he put me on Plavix, no problems since. Some just don't want to accept what the patient says, I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

having a few years working in a dr's office, i can say with without a doubt. they DO get kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. i've seen pharmacy reports stating how much a drug the dr has prescribed. the drug rep then "thanks" the dr by giving them m,any things(just not money).  trips, electronics, you name it(or rather the dr does) and it's his.

not just one time/one dr..  as a peon, i got to talk to other "peons" who see the same thing, day in day out.

case in point. having trouble sleeping? ask you dr for "desyrel" it's an anti-depressant.

works great to help you sleep, not habit forming and cheap. he's "never heard of it" but here is the latest sleep aid. they won't offer it because they don't get a kickback for it.

and no "trazadone" doesn't work as well.

Wow, as a Doctor and an employee of a drug company in the drug safety dept, I am absolutely appalled at these replies.  Drug companies aren't even allowed to give out pens any longer. 

[..]

Im on 4 meds for my heart and I wonder what is making me drag my ass around.  I have an appointment coming up soon.  I think I will hog tie my doc till he tells me what all the side effects are. Im not angry tho............yet!

Just Google search the med and side effects.

You'll find more than your doc will know.

[bigguy]

I'd have recently "left the building" with out docs and drugs. A big thanks to both from me.

[G-Man]

Drug companies spend billions to get information out to patients and doctors and pharmacists and nurses.  Billions!  And the FDA makes it harder and more expensive every other day.  It's the FDA that makes them tell you of all those side effects in the commercials.  There is a package insert within every prescription that tells you everything you need to know about the drug.  There are websites for every drug on the market and on those wbsites there is info for patients and doctors.  They even list side effects in magazine ads now.

Yes, doctors should lnow the meds they prescribe.  They should know if they may react with one of your other meds.  But they don't make a penny on you taking that drug.

As far as the take a pill mentallity.....this is not the doctors mantra, this is the patient's mantra.  The doc says, your blood pressure is kind of high and you're over weight.  Go home, lose some weight and exercise.  Next vist, you're 10 pound heavier and now hypertensive.  Doc puts you on a pill.  Next visit you gained 10 more pounds.  What should the doc do?  Take you off the med?  Why is it the docs responsibility or why is it his fault that you have to take the med?  And this is what goes on in offices all over the country thousands of time a day.  

Meds react differently in everyone's bodies.  You are taking a chemical and puting inside where other chemical reactions are taking place.  This new chemical is altering the reactions that are presently going on.  This is why they find a certain side effect in less than 1% of patients.  But what this also means is that more that 99% of patients DON'T experience this particular side effect.

[Grumpy]

Grumpy, I could not take ticlopidine either.  I immediately broke out with an all over itchy red rash.  The Plavix scares me too.  I took it for a while but began to forget where I was and what I was doing there.  After taking it for a few weeks, I had a blackout at work and had already been feeling muscle tingling and exhaustion just like with aspirin so I stopped taking it.  My confusion dissapeared and my short term memory came back.  My brother also tried Plavix at the request of his doctor and he also became confused and dissoriented while taking plavix.  Be careful with Plavix.  Also, be aware of the lawsuits against Plavix:  http://www.youhavealawyer.com/plavix/fda-warning/

PTGB,

Might be wrong to say, but I don't have much faith in doctors, I think many do more harm then good.

+1    I believe there are a few good doctors today but they are in the minority.  The take a pill and party on mentality is part of the problem IMHO.

Doc809, you sound like a doc I would enjoy knowing.

In defense of todays doctors, I think they also get lied to and missled by the drug companies.   They are human and therefore do make mistakes. 

What angers me is the drug companies pushing drugs they know are causing more harm and doctors that are prescrbing drugs to patients just to increase their own wealth.  It just shows money is king!  Another thing that makes me angry is doctors that refuse to listen and are too dumb to understand much of human biology.  I keep running into the latter and I cannot help but wonder where they got a license to practice.

Speaking of "practice", I would rather they practice on someone else.  I want them to know what they are doing when they come to help me.

Bigwolf

Thank fully no ill effects from the Plavix, Doc weaned me off of it last month, just aspirin now.

[The Anvil]

The doctors can screw up and do, when I had a stroke 5 months ago,they prescribed Ticlopidine. Dam stuff made me sick as a dog, joints hurt so bad, after two days I could barely walk, did not sleep for two days due to the pain, called the doc and he stated it was the best med, told him to stick it in the neither regions. Went to my old family Doc, he put me on Plavix, no problems since. Some just don't want to accept what the patient says, I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

having a few years working in a dr's office, i can say with without a doubt. they DO get kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. i've seen pharmacy reports stating how much a drug the dr has prescribed. the drug rep then "thanks" the dr by giving them m,any things(just not money).  trips, electronics, you name it(or rather the dr does) and it's his.

not just one time/one dr..  as a peon, i got to talk to other "peons" who see the same thing, day in day out.

case in point. having trouble sleeping? ask you dr for "desyrel" it's an anti-depressant.

works great to help you sleep, not habit forming and cheap. he's "never heard of it" but here is the latest sleep aid. they won't offer it because they don't get a kickback for it.

and no "trazadone" doesn't work as well.

Wow, as a Doctor and an employee of a drug company in the drug safety dept, I am absolutely appalled at these replies.  Drug companies aren't even allowed to give out pens any longer. 

You're right. My wife Dawn (a pharmacist) used to get pens and all kinds of cool free swag. No longer. But I think there WAS a time when there was some shady stuff going on.

I've heard that Advil makes people irritable and defensive. 

[YoungPUP]

Wifes a nurse, used to get all sorts of neat free crap including meals etc. from the drug companies, Feds outlawed it a few years ago.Now  No pens, no scratch paper pads nothing...

[6pak2go]

As quoted from Jess from VA, "Research your own meds............ dammit!"

Go to a site called "drugs.com" and you will find information an anything you take, an interaction with other drugs, pill identifier, along with lots of good trading.  I take nothing without going to the site and checking stuff out.  Thenyou will be more informed if/when you need to talk to your Dr.

[Hoser]

"I've heard that Advil makes people irritable and defensive."

No, I think it's Anvil that does that.            Hoser

[The Anvil]

"I've heard that Advil makes people irritable and defensive."

No, I think it's Anvil that does that.            Hoser

 

[Doc809]

GMan!  You have just become my hero!  So much false information out there concerning all the "perks" we get for prescribing.  Let me reinforce what you said - NOT A D@MN THING!!  Not a writing pen, a pad of paper, etc.  As soon as patients take responsibility for their own behavior, you will see a huge change in the healthcare system!  Not gonna happen.

[sugerbear]

The doctors can screw up and do, when I had a stroke 5 months ago,they prescribed Ticlopidine. Dam stuff made me sick as a dog, joints hurt so bad, after two days I could barely walk, did not sleep for two days due to the pain, called the doc and he stated it was the best med, told him to stick it in the neither regions. Went to my old family Doc, he put me on Plavix, no problems since. Some just don't want to accept what the patient says, I think the drug company's pay them to push certain drugs.

having a few years working in a dr's office, i can say with without a doubt. they DO get kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. i've seen pharmacy reports stating how much a drug the dr has prescribed. the drug rep then "thanks" the dr by giving them m,any things(just not money).  trips, electronics, you name it(or rather the dr does) and it's his.

not just one time/one dr..  as a peon, i got to talk to other "peons" who see the same thing, day in day out.

case in point. having trouble sleeping? ask you dr for "desyrel" it's an anti-depressant.

works great to help you sleep, not habit forming and cheap. he's "never heard of it" but here is the latest sleep aid. they won't offer it because they don't get a kickback for it.

and no "trazadone" doesn't work as well.

Wow, as a Doctor and an employee of a drug company in the drug safety dept, I am absolutely appalled at these replies.  Drug companies aren't even allowed to give out pens any longer.  

G-man, i'm glad your there to make sure the drugs are safe.
it's the other side of the business i'm talking about.  drug reps.  the women come in dressed in their "business attire" meaning tight and high with as much as possible hanging out(every rep i've met has been a woman). they bring lunch for the office. the dr and i worked together so we ate at the same time. while eating the rep would bring out the stats
and say well dr ***** you've prescribed x amount of our drug, and to thank you "i" would like to thank you by giving you this cannon 14 megepixle camera you said you needed to continue your research into "whatever".

i heard and saw that. that is fact.

now maybe the rep was paying for it out of her pocket i don't know. but it LOOKS like the dr was being paid to prescribe a drug.

other tech's told about trips to miami, hawaii, las vegas, to attend a seminar on a drug, all expenses paid, including enternainment.

sorry but i stand by what i said.

i'm not saying you in particular, or doc809 either. just what i've seen and heard from reliable sources.
no drug company is going to admit that it goes on, and the dr that receives isn't going to admit it either.

just to clarify i was an x-ray tech, working in a pain management office.
our office dealt with a LOT of drugs. the dr prefered i help with the procedures.
injections, r.f. procedures, etc. and it was a few years ago(about 9 i think)

things may have changed  or just went underground.

again nothing personal

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

GMan!  You have just become my hero!  So much false information out there concerning all the "perks" we get for prescribing.  Let me reinforce what you said - NOT A D@MN THING!!  Not a writing pen, a pad of paper, etc.  As soon as patients take responsibility for their own behavior, you will see a huge change in the healthcare system!  Not gonna happen.

I was one of the many who thought doctors were pressured or paid to write prescriptions too.

Thanks for straightening me out on it. I'll have a better attitude when I go in tomorrow to get the "wound vac" attached to my leg. I'm hoping it works.

[RainMaker]

My wife used to be a drug rep for J&J and all that freebie stuff did take place.  Lunches, trips, pens - you name it.  But the laws changed and now the drug companies use the airwaves to influence patients to ask for particular drugs.

We always add "uncontrollable flatulence" to the contraindication list.

[ptgb]

things may have changed or just went underground.

No offense to the doc's on here; the Feds may have outlawed it, but similarly...

I'm sure...

- All truck drivers only drive 14 hours a day and take proper time off, as required by the gov't.

- All power plants aren't dumping hazardous compounds out of their smokestacks in excess, as required by the gov't.

- All welfare receipts/disability claimants have met the requirements as to have the need for benefits, as required by the gov't.

- All businesses are following workplace safety standards to the letter, as required by the gov't.

I could go on...

While many follow the rules, that many more don't, on a regular basis. The medical industry is just that; an industry. There are the hucksters and charlatans in it, just like all others.

Unfortunate, but a fact of life.

[Willow]

- All power plants aren't dumping hazardous compounds out of their smokestacks in excess, as required by the gov't.

To put your mind at ease, electric power plants are closely monitored by the feds (using our tax dollars).  When they fail the required parameters their fines are measured in the millions of dollars and they are required to fix the issues.
 
Sometimes our cynicism serves us well.  Oftimes it doesn't. 

On the original topic, I may have a perspective differing from some.  I pay the doctor, or at least my insurance pays the doctor on my behalf.  That sets the relationship for me.  Some people get doctor's orders.  I get doctor's recommendations.  The ultimate responsibility for what drug to take or not take is on my shoulders.  I do prefer to trust my doctors' advice, but I don't receive it without question.

I'm taking more medicine than I would like to take, but I'm convinced that the consequences of not taking those medicines would be significant.

I do strongly agree that we need to take personal responsibility for our health care decisions.