fudgie
Member
Posts: 10660
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2012, 10:48:04 AM » |
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Ok, I'm gonna play the other side of the coin.
We have adopted the current flag as our National flag. No changing it. Do you know how many variations of the US flag I've seen with no uproar from anyone? Some with pix of Mt Rushmore, some with olympic rings, armed forces, etc. Same for the CSA flag.
Its not like this is adopted by the US as our National flag. To me its a joke, and wont get upset. Dont get me wrong. I love this country and the flag. I've carried a flag at prob more PGR missions then most on here.
o yea one more thing,, and this is not to be mean or anything like that, but by reading your reply may i assume that you are not a vet? If you are a vet did you see any of your close buddies blown to bits? my blood boils and my heart starts skipping every time i read things about Old Glory and what some do to her... No offense taken. I was just saying that no one raises a fuss about the other variations of the flag but are quick to point out cause it had obama on it. But no, I am not a vet. I do my best to honor those with the PGR and thanking vets. |
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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Romeo
Member
Posts: 1612
J.A.B.O.A.
Romeo, Michigan
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« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2012, 10:50:30 AM » |
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Like someone said earlier, nothing the Owebama gang does surprises me. I will definitely be exercising my right in November. He had his chance.
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solo1
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« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2012, 12:19:54 PM » |
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I see nothing wrong with flying American flags from our history. These flags are only adding to the honor of our present 50 star flag. We are not talking about the same thing. Fellow veterans, correct me if I'm wrong. I flew the Betsy Ross flag and the Gadsden flag on July 4th before I moved to an apartment, and yes, they were also lit at night..  |
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 01:11:40 PM by solo1 »
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The Anvil
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« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2012, 12:33:41 PM » |
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I see nothing wrong with flying American flags from our history. These flags are only adding to the honor of our present 50 star flag. We are not talking about the same thing. Fellow veterans, correct me if I'm wrong. I flew the Betsy Ross flag and the Gadsen flag on July 4th before I moved to an apartment, and yes, they were also lit at night.. The Bennington flag (aka: the spirit of 76 flag) was never an official flag of the US of A. It was a flag that took a lot of liberties with what WAS our official flag at the time. So who makes the distinction of what is and is not appropriate? |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Psychotic Bovine
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« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2012, 12:47:54 PM » |
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I think adding any president's face to our nation's flag is pompous, at the very least. I would be as upset if Reagen, Bush, or Kennedy's face were on the American flag.
The Bennington flag was never meant as a national flag, even the stripes are reversed. Seriously, Anvil, you're smarter than that.
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"I aim to misbehave."
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solo1
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« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2012, 01:01:59 PM » |
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Anvil, The flag you see in the pic is the Gadsden flag, not the Bennington flag. As you said the Bennington flag was not an official flag .I never flew the Bennington flag. Also, as Chris says, the stripe on the Bennington flag were reversed, white to the outside. A big Difference.
The Gadsden flag (Don't tread On Me) was the first flag carried into battle by the United States Marine Corps so that makes it an official flag.
The Betsy Ross flag was an official flag in 1777 after the six pointed stars were changed to five pointed stars. The 13 stars in a circle represented the 13 colonies.
I didn't arbitrarily make the decision to fly the Betsy Ross and the Gadsden flags. History reflects it.
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 01:14:10 PM by solo1 »
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The Anvil
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« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2012, 02:10:52 PM » |
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Anvil, The flag you see in the pic is the Gadsden flag, not the Bennington flag. As you said the Bennington flag was not an official flag .I never flew the Bennington flag. Also, as Chris says, the stripe on the Bennington flag were reversed, white to the outside. A big Difference. I wasn't singling you out in particular Solo. I'm just echoing the point that some people seem to be rather selective in terms of what constitutes "desecration" of the flag.The Gadsden flag (Don't tread On Me) was the first flag carried into battle by the United States Marine Corps so that makes it an official flag. Eh, I guess that depends on what your definition of "official" is. The Gadsden is a battle flag and was never officially adopted as the standard of the United States. But that's not really important because it predates Old Glory. As it relates to Old Glory they're nothing alike. As long as it's flown below you're all good.The Betsy Ross flag was an official flag in 1777 after the six pointed stars were changed to five pointed stars. The 13 stars in a circle represented the 13 colonies. Yeah I know that.  I didn't arbitrarily make the decision to fly the Betsy Ross and the Gadsden flags. History reflects it. But I was referring to the Bennington flag (and I can see how the way it was quoted may be misleading). You see, there are plenty of examples of people altering the flag. Not just Democrats.
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:20:55 PM by The Anvil »
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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fudgie
Member
Posts: 10660
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2012, 02:15:31 PM » |
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Thats what I mean anvil, with that 9-11 flag. Alot of variences out there.
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Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2012, 02:18:21 PM » |
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Thats what I mean anvil, with that 9-11 flag. Alot of variences out there.
That was reportedly taken at Glenn Beck's canine/equine exposition. You know how those people are big Obama supporters! Now, maybe it wasn't but I recall seeing lots of Old Glory's there with slogans and messages written in the white bars. I don't recall anyone complaining about that. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2012, 02:20:32 PM » |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2012, 02:27:48 PM » |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2012, 02:40:46 PM » |
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The Federal law Flag code....... http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdfIt is a law... but has no penalties... it is a guide to displaying the flag...... so technically it is legal by what i read.... CRS-2 In addition to the Flag Code, a separate provision contained in the Federal Criminal Code established criminal penalties for certain treatment of the flag.6 Prior to 1989, this provision provided criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag. In response to the Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson7 (which held that anti-desecration statutes are unconstitutional if aimed at suppressing one type of expression), Congress enacted the Flag Protection Act of 1989 to provide criminal penalties for certain acts which violate the physical integrity of the flag.8 This law imposed a fine and/or up to one year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor, or trampling upon any flag of the United States. In 1990, however, the Supreme Court held that the Flag Protection Act was unconstitutional as applied to a burning of the flag in a public protest.9 All depends how you interpret it... It is definitely in BAD taste........ But I'll bet it's legal..... Unless the state specifically prohibits it.... Brad |
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:42:33 PM by BradValk48237 »
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The Anvil
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« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2012, 02:43:04 PM » |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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solo1
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« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2012, 02:45:15 PM » |
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I'm enclosing one last pic. Our small KWVA chapter for quite a few years voluntarily raised and lowered 50 flags on their flagpoles at the local VA during special events. Each three section 15 foot flagpole had to be assembled and put into a cup in the ground without the flag touching the earth. We did this until our members couldn't do it anymore due to age. This has nothing exactly to do with the subject but indicates our respect for the Flag. Anvil and Fudgie, i respect your opinion but you haven't swayed me in the least. End of discussion.   |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2012, 02:53:42 PM » |
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I'm enclosing one last pic. Our small KWVA chapter for quite a few years voluntarily raised and lowered 50 flags on their flagpoles at the local VA during special events. Each three section 15 foot flagpole had to be assembled and put into a cup in the ground without the flag touching the earth. We did this until our members couldn't do it anymore due to age. This has nothing exactly to do with the subject but indicates our respect for the Flag. Anvil and Fudgie, i respect your opinion but you haven't swayed me in the least. End of discussion. Well Solo, I'm not really trying to "sway" you. However, are you equally as disgusted when it the ultra-patriotic Tea Party doing the defacing? Because if it means as much to you as you say it does then it absolutely should. |
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 03:02:30 PM by The Anvil »
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2012, 03:08:17 PM » |
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This is about proper etiquette and proper respect.
Don't care who you are or why you would do it, but you don't alter the National Flag.
The "Obama" flag is using the Flag for blatant political gain. It is wholly outside of what is proper etiquette and respect. Pick any Political person. regular person, cause or subject you wish. It would be wrong with any of them.
The First Amendment does protect your right to do such things with the Flag.
How does the saying go...?
....May you take comfort in that while you are healing
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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The Anvil
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« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2012, 03:11:25 PM » |
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Pick any Political person. regular person, cause or subject you wish. It would be wrong with any of them. That's all I'm askin.The First Amendment does protect your right to do such things with the Flag. How does the saying go...? ....May you take comfort in that while you are healing I like that.  |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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ricoman
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« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2012, 05:21:44 PM » |
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This is about proper etiquette and proper respect.
Don't care who you are or why you would do it, but you don't alter the National Flag.
The "Obama" flag is using the Flag for blatant political gain. It is wholly outside of what is proper etiquette and respect. Pick any Political person. regular person, cause or subject you wish. It would be wrong with any of them.
The First Amendment does protect your right to do such things with the Flag
the over liberal interpretation of the first ammendment reads it that way. Altering, burning, defacing is WRONG-period. Too many have died to protect the flag and the country it represents, only to have their efforts reduced to being meaningless. A sad state for sure. But that is the way it is, and it won't be getting better. |
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take personal responsibility and keep your word
98 Tourer, black and chrome, added 8/11/10
98 Std, yellow/cream, totaled 8/3/10
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The Anvil
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« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2012, 05:44:18 PM » |
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the over liberal interpretation of the first ammendment reads it that way.
Altering, burning, defacing is WRONG-period.
Too many have died to protect the flag and the country it represents, only to have their efforts reduced to being meaningless.
A sad state for sure. But that is the way it is, and it won't be getting better.
No, there is no "interpretation". "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." No act of sacrifice in the service of one's country is ever "meaningless" regardless of how many flags ignorant people burn. Every name on that black V in Washington died for something. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2012, 06:04:37 PM » |
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Anvil. I have a problem with ANY presentation of the flag other than the correct 13 red and white stripes with white stars in a field of blue. Weather it be 13, 48 or 50 stars. That is the American flag. I think the flags you posted pics of are wrong as well. Weather it be Tea Party flags or 911 its still wrong in my book.
I don't have a problem with someone wanted to make a flag for their cause as long as it is not altering the American flag. PERIOD.........
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G-Man
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« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2012, 06:00:24 AM » |
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I appreciate all of the service that our veterans gave for our country. Unfortunately, I think some have it a little twisted. Our vets fought/fight for our freedom, which includes the freedom of expression. If you stand for freedom, then you have to stand for ones ability to express his or her feelings or values the way they see fit, not the way you see fit.
In the 70's, some folks didn't like wearing the flag on your clothing or on t-shirts. We've even seen kids sent home from school for wearing the flag on a t-shirt just last year. And everyone got into an uproar over it.
We've seen peace signs on the flag, Grateful Dead logos on the flag, etc. Does this really hurt anyone? OK, you don't like it, but should someone make you stop doing something because they don't like it? Many of those opposed to this silly flag have posted on the conservative/right side of issues and wanted gov't out of our lives. Why is this silly issue not included in that? Live and let live and let gov't, and it's oppressive laws keep to themselves. Just my 2 cents.
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Bob E.
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« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2012, 09:25:48 AM » |
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I appreciate all of the service that our veterans gave for our country. Unfortunately, I think some have it a little twisted. Our vets fought/fight for our freedom, which includes the freedom of expression. If you stand for freedom, then you have to stand for ones ability to express his or her feelings or values the way they see fit, not the way you see fit.
In the 70's, some folks didn't like wearing the flag on your clothing or on t-shirts. We've even seen kids sent home from school for wearing the flag on a t-shirt just last year. And everyone got into an uproar over it.
We've seen peace signs on the flag, Grateful Dead logos on the flag, etc. Does this really hurt anyone? OK, you don't like it, but should someone make you stop doing something because they don't like it? Many of those opposed to this silly flag have posted on the conservative/right side of issues and wanted gov't out of our lives. Why is this silly issue not included in that? Live and let live and let gov't, and it's oppressive laws keep to themselves. Just my 2 cents.
Well said! |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2012, 12:40:49 PM » |
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I appreciate all of the service that our veterans gave for our country. Unfortunately, I think some have it a little twisted. Our vets fought/fight for our freedom, which includes the freedom of expression. If you stand for freedom, then you have to stand for ones ability to express his or her feelings or values the way they see fit, not the way you see fit.
In the 70's, some folks didn't like wearing the flag on your clothing or on t-shirts. We've even seen kids sent home from school for wearing the flag on a t-shirt just last year. And everyone got into an uproar over it.
We've seen peace signs on the flag, Grateful Dead logos on the flag, etc. Does this really hurt anyone? OK, you don't like it, but should someone make you stop doing something because they don't like it? Many of those opposed to this silly flag have posted on the conservative/right side of issues and wanted gov't out of our lives. Why is this silly issue not included in that? Live and let live and let gov't, and it's oppressive laws keep to themselves. Just my 2 cents.
Well said. Just one thing comes to mind; freedom of speech does not include reckless behavior that could cause calamity or injury (yelling fire in a crowded theater). Now, burning a flag may not be a physical assault but I can see where it could be argued that it is injurious to some. Mental wounds and the hurt they cause are real. So I guess what I'm saying is that I can see both sides of the argument and each has validity. Sometimes though you have to respect rights of the masses at the expense of individuals. All advocating for the devil aside, I go back and forth on this one. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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