Pinyin cup

[fubar606]

Ok bin reading about the pinyin cup and seeing some pretty scary pics. tell me why if there is oil in the pumpkin WHY is the pinyin cup getting rusty and dried out and ate up . when i put mine back togather it said to lightly grese the pinyin and the oil from the pumpkin will keep it lubed,  or have i bin led ascue

[98valk]

and the oil from the pumpkin will keep it lubed, 

and where does it say that?

correct moly paste should be used for the pinion cup splines

[Valker]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

[98valk]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

that is not written in any manual. splines have sliding motion and require grease or paste depending on application. the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

goldwing owners know the gear oil is not the lube for the splines
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/132471.html

[CASABROKER]

If the weep holes are plugged there be no oil .

[Hoser]

Sometimes if you put too much grease on the splines, the two passages that the oil comes through and lubes the gears gets clogged and does not lube the pinion.  If that happens and the grease on the splines leaks out you get the rust and wear.  It should be just a small amount of grease applied during service, then it won't clog the passages. My opinon and I'll stick with it.  Hoser

[Valker]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

Not too much oil, and Honda put oil passages in the pinion cup for.....wait for it..... passing oil. Those splines have VERY little movement, so I'm not sure why you think they slide other than upon assembly/disassembly. The cup and driveshaft simply rotate.

[98valk]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

Not too much oil, and Honda put oil passages in the pinion cup for.....wait for it..... passing oil. Those splines have VERY little movement, so I'm not sure why you think they slide other than upon assembly/disassembly. The cup and driveshaft simply rotate.

the holes are for passing of air pressure build-up during operation so the rear drive seals don't blow out, not for passing oil. basic engineering gear box design.

[Valker]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

Not too much oil, and Honda put oil passages in the pinion cup for.....wait for it..... passing oil. Those splines have VERY little movement, so I'm not sure why you think they slide other than upon assembly/disassembly. The cup and driveshaft simply rotate.

the holes are for passing of air pressure build-up during operation so the rear drive seals don't blow out, not for passing oil. basic engineering gear box design.

Um....er...I thought that is what the vent on the top of the final drive was for.

[Hoser]

For whatever reason, the passages, or weep holes should not be plugged up. I tend to go along with Valker on the venting.  Hoser

[larswlvs]

I don't want to get in the middle of anything but from everything I've read or heard  I have to agree with Valker on this.

[MP]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

that is not written in any manual. splines have sliding motion and require grease or paste depending on application. the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

goldwing owners know the gear oil is not the lube for the splines
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/132471.html

I went to that site.  You have the WRONG place.  The OP is talking about the PINION CUP splines, which are on the driveshaft, and are lubed thru the two holes with gear lube.  You show, and are talking about, the final drive gears and the wheel flange gears.  Which DO NEED grease, and are NOT lubed with gear oil.  Two completely different places in the driveline.

MP

[Disco]

Ever take your pumpkin off the bike and spill final drive oil out the pinion cup?  I have. 

Ever drain a pumpkin and wonder how in the world the oil got so dirty?  I have.  Then I realized it was not dirty.  It was mixed with the moly from the pinion cup. 

Those holes are there on purpose.  More discussion, detail, and a pearl of prescience from Daniel Meyer here:  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,36114.0.html

[lee]

Just some of my thoughts on the subject:

1.  Because of the way the holes in the cup are positioned, the only way to be sure they are clear is to remove the cup
     and clean them out.

2.  I have noticed a difference in the size of the flange on the nut that holds the cup on the pinion.  Varies from one pumpkin to another.
     (the bigger flanges cover more of the holes, amounts to less lub).  I think the older nuts have the smaller flange.

3.  As Daniel M. says: If you look at the end of the drive shaft when you pull it out of the cup you will see crap that has been cnetrifuged out
     and collects in the end of the shaft.  Where does this crap come from?
  
4.  I think the moly paste and moly grease breaks down when water gets in the cup.  I know there is a seal and it should keep all the water out
     but S**T happens.  So the crap that collects in the end of the shaft is what's left of moly paste and or moly grease.

5.  Think about it: the only way rust can appear in the cup is if WATER gets in.  There is no weep hole in the swing arm for water to get out
     once in gets in.  If the boot is on the front of the swing arm correctly,  then there is only one place water can get in.  The flange where the
     4 bolts hold the pumpkin on the swing arm.  Someone once posted that they use a gasket or silicone to seal this joint.  It mite not be a bad idea.

 6.  Never use pressure washer around this area.  If you get caught in a couple of hard rains during the riding season,  don't wait 10,000 miles to
      check the rear end.

[hubcapsc]

the holes are for passing of air pressure build-up during operation so the rear drive seals don't blow out, not for passing oil. basic engineering gear box design.

I think the holes are for passing oil, here is a patent for the basic engineering design:

Lubrication mechanism in final drive and differential units

Abstract

In a final drive and differential unit comprising a ring gear integral with
a differential gear unit rotatably mounted within a carrier, and a drive
pinion shaft supported by a pair of axially spaced bearings within a
cylindrical support structure of the carrier, the shaft extends outwardly
through an oil seal member mounted within an outer end portion of the
support structure and is provided at its inner end with a drive pinion in
mesh with the ring gear. The support structure is formed at one side
thereof with an enlarged portion formed therein with an oil supply passage
opening at its one end into the carrier at the same side as the ring gear
and is formed at the other side thereof with another enlarged portion formed
therein with an oil return passage opening at its opposite ends into the
carrier and into a first annular space between the oil seal member and the
bearing. The support structure is formed in its side wall with first and
second lateral holes respectively for communication between the oil supply
passage and a second annular space between the bearings and for communication
between the oil supply passage and the first annular space. The lowermost
edge of the second lateral hole is positioned below the lowermost edge of
the first lateral hole to ensure the flow of lubricating oil into the first
annular space passing across the second lateral hole.

Inventors:    Hori; Hiroshi (Toyota, JP), Taniyama; Kiyoshi (Toyota, JP)
Assignee:    Toyota Jidosha Kabushiki Kaisha (JP)
Appl. No.:    06/682,144
Filed:    December 17, 1984

It was mixed with the moly from the pinion cup.

I put moly60 in my pinion cup one of the first times I had it off. I think it
was very wrong, I think it plugged up the holes, and I think it caused this, which
I saw the very next tire:



Anywho, the book sez to just put a teeny amount of grease (not moly) in there.

-Mike

[wild6]

I purchased my Valk with 17k miles on it and didn't look at the shaft until 68k.  I found dried moly in the cup, so I cleaned the shaft and cup and then did what the manual says ('Pack 2 g  of molybdenum disulfide grease into the pinion joint spline'), and off I went to InZane X.

While there, I found out about the holes from Mr. Meyer at one of the Tech Sessions and knew that my pinion was toast.  Sure enough when I got home @ 78k (took a short-cut) they were a rusted mess.  I nursed them along until the new parts came.

Changed the shaft & cup @ 80k and lubricated the same way.  Checked @ 85k and everything was wet with oil as it should be.

Next time I checked was @ 101k (15k later) and they looked the same as the previous check.
Pics here: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,40072.msg378273.html#msg378273

I'm convinced that the oil circulates when the holes aren't clogged with dirt (or excess packed grease).

[Jeff K]

He's right about the final drive lube is supposed to lube that pinion cup. I'm not sure why it is inadequately done on the Valk, but my son's 2006 Shadow 1100 pinion cup is always WELL lubed with final drive oil whenever we pull it off. It looks PERFECT at 98,000 miles having NEVER had lubricant other than the final drive oil which comes into the cup.

that is not written in any manual. splines have sliding motion and require grease or paste depending on application. the shadow most likely has too much oil in it. just because people on the web post that they pull the drive shaft out and see oil doesn't mean that is correct to oil in there.

goldwing owners know the gear oil is not the lube for the splines
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/132471.html

I went to that site.  You have the WRONG place.  The OP is talking about the PINION CUP splines, which are on the driveshaft, and are lubed thru the two holes with gear lube.  You show, and are talking about, the final drive gears and the wheel flange gears.  Which DO NEED grease, and are NOT lubed with gear oil.  Two completely different places in the driveline.

MP

Nope, the OP in that Goldwing thread is talking about his pinion cup. Someone mistakenly posted pics of his final drive splines. They acknowledged their mistake further in the thread.

 

[longrider]

Everyone has their own take on spline/pinion cup lube.    I'm on my second valk  first one had 188k on it.   My formula is 1/2 good wheel bearing grease mixed with belray moly.   I have generally been replacing tires twice a year and every time all has been well on both.  The resulting mixture is not so thick and will not dry out and does not clog the oil holes.

warren

[art]

I have had the same thing with my shaft an pinion.About 5000 miles ago I checked my pinion and found it wet with oil plus wheel bearing grease.and someone said I was wrong an it was just the grease breaking down.I thought he was wrong.I pulled the rear end shaft and pinion and found the same thing again.Oil mixed with the grease.THE REAR DRIVE OIL DOES LUBE THE PINION.It is not for venting that is what the vent is for on top of the pumpkin.