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The Anvil
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« on: April 18, 2012, 08:58:55 AM » |
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...of being above this kind of thing and thus; better than the enemy. But I'm just finding that my support for the "high road" is eroding. http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/18/world/asia/afghanistan-troops-photos/index.html?hpt=hp_t3One of these dead guys was killed while planting a roadside bomb. I'm supposed to feel shame or outrage over our soldiers gloating? I just can't. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Serk
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 09:02:07 AM » |
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One of these dead guys was killed while planting a roadside bomb. I'm supposed to feel shame or outrage over our soldiers gloating? I just can't.
It occasionally happens... I agree with you completely on that sentiment... |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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f6gal
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Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 09:10:51 AM » |
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It shouldn't even make the news! It's out of context.
If someone is trying to kill you and it backfires, who wouldn't be a little celebratory??
Besides, the pic only depicts Afghans holding the dead guy.
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 09:22:24 AM by f6gal »
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Jack
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VRCC# 3099, 1999 Valk Standard, 2006 Rocket 3
Benton, Arkansas
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 09:20:47 AM » |
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It shouldn't even make the news! It's out of context.
If someone is trying to kill you and it backfires, who wouldn't be a little celebratory??
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"It takes a certain kind of nut to ride a motorcycle, and I am that motorcycle nut," Lyle Grimes, RIP August 2009.   |
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art
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Grants Pass,Or
Grants Pass,Or
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 09:59:28 AM » |
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I agree ,Its all BS.Now the pres of Afganistan wants two BILLION dollars a year from the US .I bet he will get it.
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LandElephant
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 10:03:13 AM » |
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Because it's against the "Geneva Convention" and that makes it a war crime. Doesn't matter that Afghansistan isn't a signatory. The United States is and it sends the wrong message.
I know that you can probably find plenty of examples of other signatory countries doing the same thing. Wrong is wrong. It also falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which governs all US military.
Charlie Morse
Land Elephant
MSGT USMC Ret.
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f6gal
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 10:11:03 AM » |
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Because it's against the "Geneva Convention" and that makes it a war crime. Doesn't matter that Afghansistan isn't a signatory. The United States is and it sends the wrong message.
I know that you can probably find plenty of examples of other signatory countries doing the same thing. Wrong is wrong. It also falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which governs all US military.
Charlie Morse
Land Elephant
MSGT USMC Ret.
What exactly did the American soldiers do that was against the Geneva convention? In the pic I saw the American soldiers weren't even touching the body. It's a war crime to celebrate a victory or your enemies' demise?? |
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ptgb
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 10:22:43 AM » |
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So then it would be OK for cops to pose with the corpse after they are forced to shoot a robber, burglar, etc. ? (If that happened I could imagine what this board would be screaming about the jackbooted thug).
So then it would be OK if Zimmerman snapped a few photos of a dead Trayvon before the cops got there?
So it is was OK back in Vietnam when soldiers would cut the ears off the dead enemy and pin them to their helmets?
The human mind deals with stress in many different ways, even the stress of someone wanting to kill you / you killing someone... but above all else you need to use good judgement and be a professional in all that you do, no matter if it is putting Tab A into Slot B up to and including having to kill someone in the defense of yourself or others.
Sometimes there is no other choice but to have to kill.... but, no one should revel in the death of another.... ever!
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 11:05:38 AM by ptgb »
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 Lower Lakes 1000 - 07/07 & 09/10 * Bun Burner GOLD - 09/10 Lake Superior 1000 - 07/11 * Lake Michigan 1000 - 09/11 * Lake Huron 1000 - 09/11 Saddlesore 2000 - 09/11 * Ohio 1000 - 07/13 |
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Serk
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 10:32:52 AM » |
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I'm not saying what they did wasn't wrong, and shouldn't have been done. I'm saying that I understand why they would do it, and more importantly in the grand scheme of things this really isn't something that's newsworthy...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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LandElephant
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 10:41:04 AM » |
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Did you not watch the video? It is against the "Geneva Convention" for degrading the enemy in a inhuman way. I would rewatch the video.
Also under the UCMJ you have the follow specifications (charges)
1. Failure to obey a lawful order
2. Conduct unbecoming an Officer or NCO
3. And the catch all Article 134 for anything else that the miltary can think of.
Then, what about federal law? What about human rights violations.
As stated earlier the United States of America is a signatory to the "Geneva Convention." Would it get to that point, who knows.
Is this the perception that we want the world to see as what our fighting men stand for? Is this what you want other countries to think about the other almost 1 million American fighting men and women that serve as volenteers.
OBTW, I'm not attacking anyone here. Soldiers are trained to KILL, Follow orders and serve the Constitution of the United States. I personally as a retired American Soldier am disgusted with this type of behavior.
Charlie Morse
Land Elephant
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ptgb
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 10:42:49 AM » |
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I'm not saying what they did wasn't wrong, and shouldn't have been done. I'm saying that I understand why they would do it, and more importantly in the grand scheme of things this really isn't something that's newsworthy...
The OP was about the attitude and gloating of these American soldiers. Not whether it was newsworthy or not... You know, many people complain that the news fans the flames by putting their twist on things... but in this case don't you think they were handed a flamethrower and about 500 gallons of fuel... they didn't need to bring their own. Or was it that they simply shouldn't of reported this because it makes our military look bad... whether that be here or abroad? If it shouldn't have been reported here, then you are trampling the rights that I see many scream about here on a daily basis... If it shouldn't have been reported as to not fan the flames abroad; don't you think these people have eyes and mouths??? They see horrific things (probably much more than is ever reported here) and I am sure they tells others about, and so on and so on... |
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Lower Lakes 1000 - 07/07 & 09/10 * Bun Burner GOLD - 09/10 Lake Superior 1000 - 07/11 * Lake Michigan 1000 - 09/11 * Lake Huron 1000 - 09/11 Saddlesore 2000 - 09/11 * Ohio 1000 - 07/13 |
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Fudd
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MSF RiderCoach
Denham Springs, La.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 10:43:14 AM » |
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Our guys are guilty of smiling?
I don't see them urinating on or hanging the bodies off bridges or dismembering anything.
The quicker we get out of that Hell-hole the better. No matter how many American lives are lost or how many trillions we spend, It will be business as usual over there when we finally leave. They don't want democracy, stop trying to force it on them.
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 Save a horse, ride a Valkyrie |
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f6gal
Administrator
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Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 10:48:45 AM » |
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Did you not watch the video? It is against the "Geneva Convention" for degrading the enemy in a inhuman way. I would rewatch the video.
Also under the UCMJ you have the follow specifications (charges)
1. Failure to obey a lawful order
2. Conduct unbecoming an Officer or NCO
3. And the catch all Article 134 for anything else that the miltary can think of.
Then, what about federal law? What about human rights violations.
As stated earlier the United States of America is a signatory to the "Geneva Convention." Would it get to that point, who knows.
Is this the perception that we want the world to see as what our fighting men stand for? Is this what you want other countries to think about the other almost 1 million American fighting men and women that serve as volenteers.
OBTW, I'm not attacking anyone here. Soldiers are trained to KILL, Follow orders and serve the Constitution of the United States. I personally as a retired American Soldier am disgusted with this type of behavior.
Charlie Morse
Land Elephant
The video showed a still shot with American soldiers in the background; they weren't doing anything inhumane that I saw. |
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ptgb
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 10:54:57 AM » |
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The video showed a still shot with American soldiers in the background; they weren't doing anything inhumane that I saw.
"in·hu·mane ( n hy -m n ). adj. Lacking pity or compassion."Smiling and throwing a "thumbs up" while someone else is holding human body parts does not fit this definition? You can be tough and compassionate as well, they are not mutually exclusive. |
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Lower Lakes 1000 - 07/07 & 09/10 * Bun Burner GOLD - 09/10 Lake Superior 1000 - 07/11 * Lake Michigan 1000 - 09/11 * Lake Huron 1000 - 09/11 Saddlesore 2000 - 09/11 * Ohio 1000 - 07/13 |
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doubletee
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VRCC # 22269
Fort Wayne, IN
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 12:09:12 PM » |
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The quicker we get out of that Hell-hole the better. No matter how many American lives are lost or how many trillions we spend, It will be business as usual over there when we finally leave. They don't want democracy, stop trying to force it on them.
+1 |
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musclehead
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2012, 02:07:24 PM » |
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our guys have got to learn there is administration in power right now that is just looking for opportunities to defame the military and prosecute for minor faux pas.
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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The Anvil
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2012, 02:17:31 PM » |
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I'm not saying what they did wasn't wrong, and shouldn't have been done. I'm saying that I understand why they would do it, and more importantly in the grand scheme of things this really isn't something that's newsworthy... Right on. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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The Anvil
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2012, 02:21:20 PM » |
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our guys have got to learn there is administration in power right now that is just looking for opportunities to defame the military and prosecute for minor faux pas.
I'm sorry but there's just NO evidence of that. NONE. In DEED (if not words) this administration has been better to the troops than the last one. Oh, the last one talked a good game about "supporting our troops". But their idea of "support" was warehousing the wounded in fetid VA hospitals and hiding the flag draped coffins from public view because god forbid the American people see the cost in lives. There are many valid criticisms of the current administration. THIS is not one of them. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2012, 02:47:46 PM » |
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Thanks to CNN we're going to have some revenge killings of our kids and friends who are fighting over there.
In my opinion, we shouldn't be there. My opinion all along has been that the whole country isn't worth the life of one American solder. On 9/12 we should have sterilized the country without ever putting boots on the ground. I've shared a deer camp with several good buds who have been there numerous times and it only confirms my beliefs.
It's a failed civilization nearly devoid of logic and intelligence. They will probably never be sane enough to run their own government. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I'm afraid I'm not. Chances are, no matter how long we stay and try to get them setup for self governance, as soon as we leave they will self destruct.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964  |
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tank_post142
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 02:55:40 PM » |
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so now I am mandated to have 'compassion' for someone trying to kill me? if it were up to me all enemy combatants would be buried in a pig hide. but hell i've only been shot by them twice so I probably don't have a right to an opinion because I'm not elected.
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I got a rock  VRCCDS0246  |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 03:18:11 PM » |
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so now I am mandated to have 'compassion' for someone trying to kill me? if it were up to me all enemy combatants would be buried in a pig hide. but hell i've only been shot by them twice so I probably don't have a right to an opinion because I'm not elected.
Compassion might be the wrong word. "Decorum" might be a better term. But again, this is war. Now we're obsessing over dead bodies. I think the living are more important. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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