undecided what to do with problem

[Dozer]

The bike sat most of the winter with gas in the tank. As a result, the carbs are gunked up. Dumped out the old gas and drained the bowls. I ran three tanks of gas with techron and seafoam through it. Bike runs better but still has a slow speed sputter.
I pulled the tank, air filter and box and checked for cracked hoses. Only one I found was on a drain bowl. So now I am at the point of what to do next. Put it back together and run it some more hoping the chems will finish the job or just go ahead and pull the carbs off now, clean them and replace the slow jets.
Before I took it all apart I ran it at high idle and sprayed starter fluid around everything. When I shot it toward the middle of the engine where I cant see, I got a 3-400 rpm rise. Other than a hose, is there any place for the fluid to get into the intake?
Its a 2000 Std with 36000 mi no mods except cut piggies. Which direction should I go?

[RTaz]

I think I would check out the intake o-rings and see if the clamps are tight on the intakes also you might see it the petcock is opening all the way under vacuum.

[Pete]

If the bike was running ok when parked and the gas only evaporated in the carbs one time. (not repeatedly)

Then pour Berrymans B12 or Techron directly thru each carb repeatedly until it stops discoloring.

Flush the gas tank and refill and give it a try.

Otherwise, pull and clean the carbs and replace the head to manifold o-rings.

[Chiefy]

Is there any chance you shot the fluid near the air intake on the air box?  That would explain the rpms going up.  If you're sure you didn't, then find and fix the vacuum leak and leave the carbs alone.

OTOH, if you DID accidentally get the fluid into the box, then at this point I would do the carbs.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Dozer, I'm just east of your in Huffman and {Dennis} keepinon is in New Caney if you need help. Denise has a lot of knowledge of goldwings and valks and I have been able to do all my work on mine for the last 9 years. I would enjoy meeting you whether we work on your bike or not. Dennis works in Humble off of wilson road so we all might get together.

[Dozer]

This is actually my sons bike and the 2nd time in 3 years this has happened. The first time cost him $1200 at the dealers. I have the time to work on it and maybe save him a few bucks. Personally, I ride a V Twin...yam Road Star. I have been wrenching my own for many years. I know that Valks, like any other brand, has "special needs and quirks". So I am relying on y'all for help and advice.
So, to go on, I suppose its possible I got some fluid into the airbox but I thought that whole area was pretty much sealed. Before I started this thing I made sure all of the clamps on the intake tubes, top and bottom, were tight. I snugged the intake manifold screws a little more and tried to make sure there were no obvious places to leak. I sprayed fluid on each area with no results except for that area under the tank that I couldnt see. I gotta tell ya though...its a dirty nasty mess under the air box

[Dozer]

When this all began, the bike wouldnt start at all. I found that the vacuum diaphram in the petcock was leaking. This is also the second time. The first failure, gas came out of the nipple on the petcock. I put a new coverset in and it started but ran poorly...no idel, no accel. Each successive treatment of seafoam and two tanks of gas with full bottles of techron helped a lot. The bike runs strong on accel and above 50 MPH. Its a joy to ride. Below that, it has a constant sputter and idle is erratic. The sputter seems to pretty much go away with the choke is partly applied. I put roughly 150-200 miles on it since this started hoping that the chems would fix it. They helped, but not 100%. Thats when I started checking for leaks. I guess I'll try some B12 and pour it through the carbs as Pete suggested and try it again. From what I read here though if its the low speed jets, they may not clean up unless by hand.

[Dozer]

Mr Bubbles....Man, I greatly appreciate your offer ....and offering Dennis's help too. Does he know you volunteered him?

I live 3 blocks or so from Wilson Rd...just off of Isaacks and close to Lakeland Elementry school. I just happen to be on standby/ "vacation" till the 26th.
I work at the airport and I am the director of maintenance for a corporate flight dept. The aircraft is in europe till the 27th.
I would be delighted to meet you both...probably anywhere or time. Just let me know when...and many thanks again.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

No Dennis doesn't know I volunteered his help but I know Dennis well enough to know he be glad to help. I'm fixing to be off a couple of days myself so maybe we can get together. Dennis works for American Friction right on wilson road. He drives a yellow tourer or a sort of purple  valk trike. If you see him in town flag him down.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Also Dozer post over on the Texas board several very helpful people over there and local.

[Dozer]

Many thanks for the info Mr B. I didnt think about the Tx board. This is where I usually come first. Its been a great help on ocassions.

I'll keep an eye open for Dennis's bike(s) American Friction? Sounds like a name Iran can relate to!

[Old Geezer Richard]

Hey Dozer , I have used all the different brands of fuel cleaner and I have been impressed with Gumout High Mileage fuel cleaner .... I use it in my lawn mower , power washer and my cars ... good stuff , just my .02 cents ...  Thanks the Geezer

[Ricky-D]

If the bike has not been de-smogged, there are any number of vacuum hoses under the air cleaner box that are not easily observed. 

And this could, more than likely, be the main problem and also the reason the motor idled up when you sprayed the fluid.

I'd suggest that a de-smog is in the best interests for a smoother running motor.

***

[Dozer]

Ricky D...no, the bike has not been desmogged. After I got the airbox off I figured I was half way there with respect to pulling the carbs. So Thats what I did this morning. It was a LOT easier than it looked. After I got the carb assy off and outta there, I saw the smog equip and additional hoses. You may have a good point about leaks there. That was the general area I couldnt see when I sprayed the fluid. I am getting ready to call redeye, being that he is highly recommended, and order the carb o ring and hose kit & probably a desmog kit as well.
So what is the general consensus regarding a full desmog vs a "stealth" desmog. Is stealth just as good as the whole 9 yards, just plug it and forget it? I guess I'll also have to get some low speed jets from someone too. I just wanna do this job once and be done.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Dozer O rings and hose can be obtain locally and de-smog can be done with the parts you already have and some JB weld if you don't want to wait on parts coming online. I got my O rings at True Value Hareware and hose from auto supply store. I working tonight will try and contact you this weekend some time. It looks like the bad weather will be gone and the roads dry by the time I get up arround noon.

[Chiefy]

Dozer,
I bought the "shiny" desmog kit from redeye.  When it's all done it looks like it came that way from the factory.  Not looking to start a problem with the guys that use JB Weld and freeze plugs, because that works fine too.

The stealth kit should be pretty much un-noticeable if you're concerned about smog inspections.  The places you plug are a little up-stream, so I suppose there is a small chance of a vacuum leak down the road, but I would think probably not.  If you take all the scheisse out of there, as when you use freeze plugs, or a kit, you get a lot of room back under the tank.  Makes it easier to work under there later.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

No problem but the way I do it all tubes are removed and the the finished look is like it never happened. Yes he can do it anyway he decides I was just trying to help him if he didn't want to wait.

[Chiefy]

No problem but the way I do it all tubes are removed and the the finished look is like it never happened. Yes he can do it anyway he decides I was just trying to help him if he didn't want to wait.

Was just covering my bases.  Desmog sometimes gets a little touchy around here.

[Red Diamond]

No problem but the way I do it all tubes are removed and the the finished look is like it never happened. Yes he can do it anyway he decides I was just trying to help him if he didn't want to wait.

Sure would like to join y'all to learn about the desmog Mr B, leaving for Shreveport Sunday morning. Been thinking about the desmog, but have hesitated to do it.
Would also like to meet Dennis and Dozer. Have fun.

[Dozer]

Ya'll sleep till noon?? LOL...me too! Its 1500 hr and I am still in a sleep mode! I was gonna ride over to La for a beer and burger today but couldnt get my butt engaged...so I am chillin in my cave instead.
About the desmog. I like the shiney mod but I have concern about how to go back to stock should the state or feds do something stupid...like require emission tests on bikes. I read that a well tuned valk will pass with no emission equip however, its still against the law to tamper with it. I really dont much care about that but I would like to go back to OEM IF I need to. Reading the instructions about total desmog, there is a tube that needs tro be cut, hacked, bent, filled or otherwise removed. If its that of a problem to remove, how in the world would one get the tube back in in order to go back to OEM?
The stealth system doesnt remove the junk...just plugs the lines. So there is still a mess of crap under the carb set. Is there a blend of both mods that would work? I havent ordered o rings yet but being that I am doing all the carbs and low speed jets, I'll have to wait on parts anyway. So Id like to get them from redeye...however, I really have a problem with pay pal.

[Dozer]

I am getting my order ready for Rich...question: do I really need carb bowl gaskets? Are they reusable or are they typically stretched out of shape when the carbs are taken apart or "glued" in?

[Patrick]

As far as the desmog,, Just plugging some lines can easily be seen by some inspector if you ever need a 'sniff' test.. Removing everything is difficult to notice unless you're very familiar with what you're looking at.. Besides, the 'quickie' desmog is just asking for trouble IMHO as almost everyone has eventually had problems with it.. 

[Patrick]

Ooops, forgot.. The bowl gaskets are usually reusable[ I've not had to replace one],, but,, STUFF happens..

[Dozer]

Ooops, forgot.. The bowl gaskets are usually reusable[ I've not had to replace one],, but,, STUFF happens..

Good deal...that will save me $25 or so. I am inclined to do a complete desmog but its my sons bike. I'll check with him when he gets back in counrty and see what he wants to do. Regarding slow jets...try to clean them  or replace? I am certain they are stock 35's. He has been the sole owner and bought it new. I sure wish he'd ride it more though...

Thanks for the info Patrick

[Bone]

Dozer I've read on here a couple of guys replaced the slow jets. They tried to clean theirs reinstalling with no change. Bought new ones and problem solved. Up to you cleaning may work.

[Dozer]

Dozer I've read on here a couple of guys replaced the slow jets. They tried to clean theirs reinstalling with no change. Bought new ones and problem solved. Up to you cleaning may work.

Yeah, I saw some of those posts...I guess I could spend that $25 on jets instead of carb bowl gaskets. Id hate to do this job twice. I have seen them for sale at numerous prices...one on the local stealers here gets $11.00 each while another gets $4.00 (internet)

[Patrick]

Some fellas do replace the jets,, I clean 'em.. Some fellas have stated they thoroughly  cleaned the carburetors and jets only to have to do it again.. I guess I don't understand that, but, I've been at it for 50years..
As for being too rich at idle,, 2.25 turns from lightly seated works about right for 35 jets.. Why yours is too rich, I'm not sure, except to say that these monsters will bring tears to your eyes if you hang around behind them too long.. These carburetors come set at about 1.75 turns,, but,, if someone starts playing with them then all bets are off..  I've tried setting them the ' right ' way and have the burnt fingers to prove it,, but,, 2.25 still works the best.. That said, it certainly wouldn't hurt to set them back to 1.75 and see how you like it..

[Dozer]

I wondered about cleaning them too. Seems that with a good soak in carb cleaner or ultasound sound cleaner, that varnish would be dissolved. I never had to replace a jet in any carb unless it was damaged with a screwdriver or pick or something. But then maybe a valk carb is different...My experience with a Valk is still growing. Everything seemed to be running just fine before it sat so long.

[Hook#3287]

I wondered about cleaning them too.

Unless you want to do it twice, replace them, with 38's.  You may be able to clean them, but the reason they are trashed is the crapy gas and sitting to long.  I cleaned mine the first time and when that didn't solve my crapy running problem, I changed just about everything else I could think of, including plugs, intake and exhaust gaskets, etc, etc,.  Many hours of frustrating work and hoping I found the problem.  I didn't.    Until I CHANGED the 35's to the 38's.  Just my experience and opinion.

The desmog I did, on all three bikes, which I got the directions somewhere on this site from, I just capped the chrome tubes with rubber hoses that I plugged the end with JBWeld and clamped on.  I plugged the air box hose hole with JBWeld.  I zipped tied two of the chrome pipes together on both sides to keep them from moving around.  I capped the intake ports with rubber hose with screws/bolts in the ends.  I saved all the parts and if I have to reverse, I can.

I haven't noticed any real difference in gas mileage or performance, but I desmoged the two used ones before I rode them.  I won't have to worry about rubber hoses cracking and giving me the popping that drove me  on the bike I bought new.

[Dozer]

Hook,  so I guess what you are saying is that the 38's are less prone to gunking up than the 35's due to the hole size? Makes sense. Man it seems like everyone has had a different experience with these things...theres no "black or white". What worked for one didnt work for another. I hate when that happens.

So when you left the plugged tubes on the smog system how much of a PITA was it to get the carb bank back on? Were those tubes somewhat in the way?

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Dozer they are really low to the block. Once intake runners are out of the way don't think they'll be in the way.

[Hook#3287]

Dozer they are really low to the block. Once intake runners are out of the way don't think they'll be in the way.

MrBubbles is right, the pipes are to low to be in the way.

so I guess what you are saying is that the 38's are less prone to gunking up than the 35's due to the hole size?

That's the way I understand it to work, but I'm no engineer or pro mechanic, just a guy that loves working on my own stuff.

That is what happened to me, your results may be different.

[Patrick]

Yep, the 38s do have a bigger hole drilled thru them and should be less prone to varnishing.. The pilot setting for them appears to be 1.5 or 1.75 turns.. Setting the pilots is easy, I cut a slot in them while they are out so I can get at them with a screwdriver.. I also stick a little dab [technical term] of never-sieze on the threads..

[Dozer]

Yep, the 38s do have a bigger hole drilled thru them and should be less prone to varnishing.. The pilot setting for them appears to be 1.5 or 1.75 turns.. Setting the pilots is easy, I cut a slot in them while they are out so I can get at them with a screwdriver.. I also stick a little dab [technical term] of never-sieze on the threads..

Cutting a slot in the screw head! Duh, why didnt I think of that? Thats a good idea..so is never seize. I am finding a lot of corrosion problems on this bike and holding my breath everytime T loosen a screw or bolt for fear it will snap off. Everything is going back together with anti siez of some kind or a lube

[Dozer]

Dozer they are really low to the block. Once intake runners are out of the way don't think they'll be in the way.

After getting the runner off, I remember doing a little wiggling to get the bank out. The pair valves and vacuum lines were a slight obsticle. If they are gone it would be a snap to slide the assy back in. I should know by friday if my son wants the full desmog or what....

[Dozer]

Okay folks...I am just about ready to start separating the carbs. I recieved most all of my parts  from Red Eye and HLD. However, I am still short 3 slow jets from HLD, but I can still get started.  I am headed to the parts store in a few minutes to get carb dip to soak these things after I get them apart. Is there a clear preference between Gunk and Berrymans carb & parts dip cleaner? I see that Gunk has a parts pan with their kit. They are both about the same price...$28-$30 for a gallon.

 I'll follow the honda manual as I proceed. before I start, is there anything inside of those carbs that can be melted by the cleaner? I guess what I am looking for is/are "hidden tips" that the book doesnt mention as this is my first time to work on these carbs. Any preference on soak time? I read that some folks let them soak over night and some only a few hours. Is this cleaner gonna etch or erode the metal if it sits too long?

Thanks
D

[Ricky-D]

I

just wanna do this job once and be done.

"Pie in the sky" if you're gonna park the bike during the winter with gas in the tank and carburetors.

***

[Dozer]

I

just wanna do this job once and be done.

"Pie in the sky" if you're gonna park the bike during the winter with gas in the tank and carburetors.

***

Hopefully my son will start riding it again and I wont have to worry about it....and I can go back to my Road Star

[Dozer]

I have a question. I pulled #1 carb apart and the bottom of the float bowl looked like a thin layer of mud. The slow jst was more than 3/4 plugged up. I blew it out with my compressor and could see a lot of light through it. I am still gona replace it BUT real issue is the pilot needle...its ia mystery.

First, redeyes D pilot adjuster tool fit too snug to get it into the pilot hole. After I buffed the edges a bit it fit better and I was able to turn the needle. It was three turns out from seated. When I took the needle out there was a hole drilled in the center of the "D head". On the needle side, near the base there was another hole. These two were connected and filled with black silicone. I checked the other pilot needles and #3 is the same way. The other 4 are solid (no drilled holes)

This carb cleaning process was accomplished once before a few years ago by a local dealer. Is this plugged hole normal or do you think it was drilled out and reused? I am considering replacing those two needles...maybe all 6.

Also noticed this thread is getting long. Should I start a new thread?

[sugerbear]

I

just wanna do this job once and be done.

"Pie in the sky" if you're gonna park the bike during the winter with gas in the tank and carburetors.

***

you must have some really crappy gas in your area. mine sits over the winter not started, tank full of gas(with ethanol) no stabil etc. never had a jet clog, never had a problem starting (except that one time when i THOUGHT i had gas but didn't  ).
could gas be that different state to state?
and it's completely stock.