Intermittent Electrical Problem

[3fan4life]

My Interstate is experiencing a problem with its headlight.

The problem is intermittent in the worst way.



My headlight is going out,

When it does the turn signal indicators both light up but the headlight and the turn signals go out.

I cannot duplicate the problem and there appears to be nothing that consistenly causes it to happen.


Time seems to be what makes it go away, the p[roblem lasts for 10-30 secs before it clears up.


I'm hoping that someone here has experienced the same issue and can steer me in the right direction.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Valker]

That is classic symptoms of a bad ground.

[jer0177]

That is classic symptoms of a bad ground.

+1.

According to the wiring diagrams on Rattlebars, it looks like SP62 (on the right side) is going bad:

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage08i.html

When you lose a ground connection, the current feeds back through whatever path it can find to ground - in this case, your turn signal indicators.

I would start by making sure the 9 pin blue connector in the fairing is clean and tight, and see if that resolves the problem.  If it doesn't, troubleshooting intermittent electrical problems is like finding a needle in a haystack because you can't see it when it's not there.

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage11i.html

[R J]

That is classic symptoms of a bad ground.

+1.

According to the wiring diagrams on Rattlebars, it looks like SP62 (on the right side) is going bad:

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage08i.html

When you lose a ground connection, the current feeds back through whatever path it can find to ground - in this case, your turn signal indicators.

I would start by making sure the 9 pin blue connector in the fairing is clean and tight, and see if that resolves the problem.  If it doesn't, troubleshooting intermittent electrical problems is like finding a needle in a haystack because you can't see it when it's not there.

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage11i.html

Well, that is what I get for waiting to look at the wiring diagram.   I look, discover the same thing posted here.      Loose, corroded or fraid ground wire.

Have you been in the fairing looking around or playing?    If so, that is the ST place to start looking.     OR, if you have made an addition or taken something off the bike, is the 1st place to look.     That usually is what causes loose grounds, by moving wires around to get to another wire..

Happy hunting.    You might find it in 5 minutes and then it might take ya 5 months to find it.     I hate chasing these kind of bugs.........

[Robert]

Agree on the ground
  Just run a wire from the frame to the front forks temporary to see if this eliminates the problem. If it does you can either run the offending wire down or just run a acceptable ground.

[YoungPUP]

++1 on the ground.  Don't forget the simple stuff like the Neg. Battery cable.  Gremlins are a bitch to find...

[3fan4life]

Thanks for the input guys.

I replaced the speakers last week so I was inside of the fairing moving wires around.

I'll check the connector this weekend, it sounds like a good place to start.


Electrical DEMONS are a PITA.

[3fan4life]

I think that I found the problem:




This is the plug from the main harness to the headlights and front turn signals.

And of course the damaged part is on the main wiring harness.


Now the question is, what caused this and how do I fix it ?

I have a couple of ideas but I'm wide open to suggestions.

I'm not excited about the idea of replacing the entire main harness.

Does anyone know of a way to get just the connector and splice it in?

The loose green wire in the back ground belongs to the melted pin, it pulled away from the connector while I was trying to get it apart (which wasn't easy).



This is the other half of the connector:



It doesn't look bad but there is a definite color difference in the pin that was part of the melted connector.

[jer0177]

I think that I found the problem:




This is the plug from the main harness to the headlights and front turn signals.

And of course the damaged part is on the main wiring harness.


Now the question is, what caused this and how do I fix it ?

I have a couple of ideas but I'm wide open to suggestions.

I'm not excited about the idea of replacing the entire main harness.

Does anyone know of a way to get just the connector and splice it in?

The loose green wire in the back ground belongs to the melted pin, it pulled away from the connector while I was trying to get it apart (which wasn't easy).



This is the other half of the connector:



It doesn't look bad but there is a definite color difference in the pin that was part of the melted connector.

I guess "Bl" stood for black instead of blue 

I'd say that's the problem. 

My solution?  Wire around the plug for that circuit.  Use something disconnectable - probably a spade connector - and just wire it up outside the 9 pin black connector.

What caused it?  Probably either a loose connection or a little bit of corrosion that caused it to heat up when current was traveling through it.

[gordonv]

The easy/quick/cheap way, like jer0177 suggested, those pins pull out from the wire end. Use a mini screw driver, and press the little barb tab down, so the connector can slid out of the housing.

Make a jumper wire, with a male and female proper connector for the damaged piece, and bypass the housing for the one wire.

Or if the housing is reusable, cut that green wire back a little, add a length of wire to it, and get a new connector that goes into the housing.

Or buy a new housing, and cut the whole thing off, and make a fresh one. vintageconnections.com has the parts.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Radio Shack used to sell a little tool for removing those pins. It is a little tube with a handle on it that slides over the pin and pushes the tab down so pin will pull out the back. Only a couple of dollars and makes it real easy.

[MP]

Radio Shack used to sell a little tool for removing those pins. It is a little tube with a handle on it that slides over the pin and pushes the tab down so pin will pull out the back. Only a couple of dollars and makes it real easy.

+1

works good

[3fan4life]

I made a jumper for the connection.

THE CONNECTION IS STILL GETTING HOT.

The multi meter says that .45 volts are feeding back through it.

I can't see any obvious problems in the wiring or connections.

IF I disconnect both head lights the feedback drops to zero.

With either one of them connected and the other one disconnected the feedback is apx .25 volts.

I disconnected all electrical accessories that I have added to the bike and nothing changed.

I'm out of ideas as to what the problem is or where to look. 

[jer0177]

I made a jumper for the connection.

THE CONNECTION IS STILL GETTING HOT.

The multi meter says that .45 volts are feeding back through it.

I can't see any obvious problems in the wiring or connections.

IF I disconnect both head lights the feedback drops to zero.

With either one of them connected and the other one disconnected the feedback is apx .25 volts.

I disconnected all electrical accessories that I have added to the bike and nothing changed.

I'm out of ideas as to what the problem is or where to look. 

Are you getting resistance to ground (check for resistance between the "main" side of the connection and a good ground - battery negative or something equivalent)?

What gauge wire did you use for your jumper?

[Robert]

jer is on the right track a amp meter between the connection that's getting hot is a better way to check how much power is actually going through that circut. I sometimes use the big spade connectors to alleviate this very problem. The small spade connectors with crimp ends usually only stand say 14 amps max consistent before they heat up. So the bigger ones really do spread the connection surface over a larger area and they stay cool. Heating up a little is ok but more than a little is not, they should always be comfortable to touch. I would also consider soldering the connections on after crimping them and of course like Jer said take them out of the connector and wire them together of course with the spade connectors.

[3fan4life]

I'm not sure of the exact gauge wire that I made the jumper from, it is a slightly heavier gauge than the wire in the factory harness.

I decided to replace the headlight bulbs since the current feedback was only present with the old ones plugged in.

I put them back together with a generous amount of di-electric grease on all the connections.

There is still up to a 1/2 volt of current feeding back through the negative but it is no longer constant.

The spade connection that I made is still getting warm but not as much.

I rode to church and back this evening with no problems but it was only a 30 mile round trip.


I'm going to keep an eye on it and I'll do a resistance check as soon as I can.


Thanks for all the input from everyone it has been helpful.       

[jer0177]

I decided to replace the headlight bulbs since the current feedback was only present with the old ones plugged in.

Were the bulbs in the bike of a higher output than the factory ones?

I ask because electricity doesn't flow like most people imagine - from positive to negative.

Moving electrons are what are measured as "current", and since electrons actually have a negative charge, your current flows from the negative terminal, through the circuit (which should include some sort of switch and fuse), back to the positive terminal.  If the path for the electrons wasn't up to the task (cooked wire/terminal too small to handle the current for the higher output headlights), that's what you'll end up with.  You could augment the ground path with a more significant one if you wanted to continue to run the higher wattage bulbs, but the easiest thing to do is replace the bulbs.

Thanks for all the input from everyone it has been helpful.

These kinds of questions are much more fun than "what is the right tire?" or "what kind of oil?" because there's little room for subjectivity here.