Starter not turning engine... just spins

[wekieboom]

When I try to start my Valk I can hear the starter spinning and at first some loud clicking.  Now it just spins.  I think I remember reading about someone having this problem before but cant seem to find any related articles when searching. 

Help me! The weather is too nice this time of year for it to be out of commission and push starting isn't  very fun!

[Patrick]

So if you push start it then it runs fine?? Does the starter just spin every time ?? Or does it catch and work once in a while ??  If the starter motor is spinning and turning over the engine it sounds as if the drive gears are broken.. The general reason for that is the dreaded fuel-lock.. If thats the case, you're in for an expensive fix..
Tech questions are best asked on the tech board.. There are fellas over there that are not, or seldom, over here..

[Patrick]

Ooops, sorry,, this is the tech board, isn't it..

[wekieboom]

Yes, push starting = fun driving afterwards...

Crap to fuel lock, I bet this fits the bill.  Replaced the fuel on/off valve with an aftermarket one, and since have left the fuel on once over night... smelled gas the next morning and realized I had left it on.  I forgot about fuel lock as a threat as in the past I hadn't needed to worry about it... 

 

New questions are now: what do I need to do/fix/replace... and who do you disconnect the drive shaft from the engine -already have the engine disconnected from the frame but got stuck trying to unscrew the drive shaft, do I need a special tool?  Does autozone have it or do I need to spend big bucks at Honda to get one?

[Michvalk]

You have to remove the final drive, drive shaft, and the u joint to pull the engine

[John Schmidt]

You don't "unscrew" the driveshaft, it pulls off the back of the engine by way of the u-joint. Do you have a shop manual? If not, you need to invest in one before starting big projects like this.

[2step]

You have to remove the final drive, drive shaft, and the u joint to pull the engine

NO YOU DONT,, Just pull your engine forward, the u-joint will pull right off your input shaft

[Chrisj CMA]

I think you just have  a weak battery!

[Patrick]

While this sounds like the aftermath of a fuel-lock, you didn't mention any previous trouble with starting.. When a cylinder is full of fuel and one hits the starter button,, a loud 'CLANK' is heard.. If one keeps trying to start the monster the starter will peel a couple teeth off the drive gears and the starter motor will then spin without doing anything else..

[wekieboom]

There is more I can tell you about the history although it happened fairly quickly. 
My dad (we share nicely) said he kept trying to start it and would hear the loud clicking (assuming this is the stripping part of which you speak)  afterwards it would still start but would hear the loud clicking a few times during each start. 
We knew something wasn't right so we weren't ignoring the problem but trying to figure it out over the course of a week.  We decided to put it aside for to investigate, but when I tried to start it to take it to my dad's garage (he as the better tools) that's when it just would spin.  I was able to push start it and after a short ride, still starter just spins when pressing start button.

So now after taking things off to look into problem he got stuck at the drive shaft/final drive problem, and I thought I would ask for help regarding that and our overall problem...  Thanks for the info about pulling the shaft, hope that solves our initial problem

[shooter64]

I think what some people are saying is that if the starter is spinning and not engaging the engine (bad starter bendix?) I would not immediately start pulling the engine out. Starter maybe, not the engine.

[Madmike]

agree...pull the starter first and see what is going on and then go from there.. if it made some noise and then started after that then it is likely a different problem

[Grumpy]

I think what some people are saying is that if the starter is spinning and not engaging the engine (bad starter bendix?) I would not immediately start pulling the engine out. Starter maybe, not the engine.

No Bendix on the valkyrie starter, gear reduction internal in the starter, has a one way sprag clutch internal in the rear case.

[Madmike]

maybe the overrunning clutch failed and that caused the noise??

[Valkpilot]

I think you just have  a weak battery!

+1 on this.  Try and jump from a non-running car.

[Hoser]

If you are lucky you just broke a couple teeth off the starter gear.  If not you knocked a chunk off the rear case.  It sounds like a hydrolock to me.  Sorry if I'm right, I hope I'm wrong.    Hoser

[gordonv]

Sorry, I need to jump in here fast. I think you've already screwed yourself, you've started pulling the motor, without a manual, before you know what the problem is? STOP it right now.

Get the manual, buy a paper copy and download a PDF from here,
http://valkyrienorway.com/download.html

I would guess you are already hooped since you've started pulling the motor, but what you should have done first after the starter wouldn't turn the engine, is to try to bump the bike, or more correctly, just try to turn the engine over.

If it starts, then you have either a bad starter gear or the gears in the engine. Should be able to fix with the motor mounted.

If the motor won't turn over, remove the spark plugs, and try to turn the engine over again by bump starting it. If fuel squarts out of a cylinder, then you have had hydro lock. Do a search, there is more than you would ever want to know about it. Same things as the above to fix the gears, but doesn't fix the problem, and it can happen again, so do a search and read.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Patrick]

I think I would have removed the starter and looked for damage..

[Garland]

I think I would have removed the starter and looked for damage..

+1. Pull the starter and look inside the case. You should be able to see if the gears are sheared off.

[shooter64]

Yeah, first step if you suspect hydro lock would be to remove the plugs, see if the starter will spin the motor to flush the fuel out. In the original post you said the starter spins but does not engage the engine. Hopefully, just starter trouble. With hydro lock there is a clunk and the engine is locked.

[signart]

Am I missing something here? What's all this talk about hydro-lock just because a starter fails? The poster already said in at least in two posts, that he was able to push start the bike & it ran fine. Even rode it to his Dad's to begin removal of the engine from the starter.
Take the starter off the engine, don't take the engine off the starter, then post your findings for more advice from the mechanics on board.

[Robert]

Am I missing something here? What's all this talk about hydro-lock just because a starter fails? The poster already said in at least in two posts, that he was able to push start the bike & it ran fine. Even rode it to his Dad's to begin removal of the engine from the starter.
Take the starter off the engine, don't take the engine off the starter, then post your findings for more advice from the mechanics on board.

Where you been? Look at Grumpys post above and look for hydrolock that will answer all your questions.
About the first thing I would have done is pull the start for confirmation of the problem.

[Patrick]

He may not have had a fuel-lock at the time of the starter failure.. Or if he did have a fuel-lock and a starter drive failure depending on where the starter motor happens to stop, it'll still work until a later date when it happens to stop near the damaged teeth.. So the damage could have occurred some time ago..

[shooter64]

Am I missing something here? What's all this talk about hydro-lock just because a starter fails? The poster already said in at least in two posts, that he was able to push start the bike & it ran fine. Even rode it to his Dad's to begin removal of the engine from the starter.
Take the starter off the engine, don't take the engine off the starter, then post your findings for more advice from the mechanics on board.

See post #4 by wikieboom.

[signart]

I understand hydro-lock would cause stripped teeth off a starter drive and worse, but it's not the only cause for the starter to spin without engaging. I'm saying pull the starter for "starters".

[Robert]

I understand hydro-lock would cause stripped teeth off a starter drive and worse, but it's not the only cause for the starter to spin without engaging. I'm saying pull the starter for "starters".

I am not sure you understand that the Valk starter doesn't have a Bendix only has internal gears and they are always engaged with the engine gears. There is a one way sprag that will freewheel so that the starter doesn't turn all the time. When the starter is on the one way sprag locks and turns the engine. This sprag is in the engine and the starter gears are pretty bullet proof. So there is no access to any gears that turn the engine without removing the engine. You are correct in saying pull the starter but its only for confirmation.

[signart]

Good enuff, thanks.

[wekieboom]

the gear is sheared, so now trying to access, now working on getting tools to access (Need to find sockets to remove the lock nuts).  We were able to remove the engine finally... now just gotta get to work.  We did get a service manual as well, Thanks for all the help guys, I think we are on the righteous path of repair now...  Plus good time to get more parts powder coated!

[9Ball]

the gear is sheared, so now trying to access, now working on getting tools to access (Need to find sockets to remove the lock nuts).  We were able to remove the engine finally... now just gotta get to work.  We did get a service manual as well, Thanks for all the help guys, I think we are on the righteous path of repair now...  Plus good time to get more parts powder coated!

Good luck...just make sure you address the underlying problem that caused this issue...carbs and petcock.

[Jeff K]

Really, it takes me all of an hour to pull a motor. Realistically if you had the offending parts you could easily repair it in a single day if you had done a search and read both the manual, and the previous posts. Tie the carbs up, drop the motor down. No big deal. I've dropped motors, split the case, put overdrive gears in, and got the bike back on the road the same day.

[Robert]

Really, it takes me all of an hour to pull a motor. Realistically if you had the offending parts you could easily repair it in a single day if you had done a search and read both the manual, and the previous posts. Tie the carbs up, drop the motor down. No big deal. I've dropped motors, split the case, put overdrive gears in, and got the bike back on the road the same day.

Yea and youve only done it 3000 times and could probably do it in your sleep. 

[Ricky-D]

Overdrive gears in a Valkyrie.

Now, isn't that interesting!

***

[Patrick]

The overdrive 'Mario' gears hit the highway a number of years ago, but, didn't seem to be very popular.. The high horse power guys seemed to like the gears..

[Jeff K]

Overdrive gears in a Valkyrie.

Now, isn't that interesting!

***

They came and went. They got some bad press from the guys that expected no change in the normal power band. I didn't have a problem with them, but to be honest I never put them in any of my bikes. But did do several installs for people. The biggest complaint i had was the clunk into 4th. And it did make 4th and fifth louder. But since you aren't adding another gear just spreading the OD through the same two gears there is a loss of torque in the over drive. And it makes the ratio spread wider in the last two gears. The new fourth was close to the original fifth gear, so you'd have to drop a gear to have the passing power you were used to having originally.
The expectation that 5th would be OD and still have the same torque was kinda silly.
JMHO