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Author Topic: Nology  (Read 3128 times)
Hedgehog
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« on: May 16, 2012, 03:54:01 AM »

Still working on my ignition / fuel power fade problem...

Decided to replace the wires as I was going to do this anyway - then a complete check and clean up of the ignition system and then the fuel lines / carbs.

Just wondering.... has anyone ever heard of Nology Hot wires? Or Cool Wires?

These are being suggested as replacements for Honda OEM leads by a mechanic...

Anyone ever tried them? ???

Can anyone recommend a supplier of new Honda OEM leads  as they are all out of stock in the UK and I may have to import them from the US.

Thanks

Hedgehog

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Dave King
Proud owner of Honda Valkyrie F6C 1997 Standard
& owner of BigBikeMad.com
Blackduck
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Posts: 642


West Australia


« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 06:00:58 AM »

Have not had anything to do with those leads. The standard leads are plain wire and use a resistor in the plug cap.
I used resistant wound cable , not sure which brand. Removed the resistors from the plug caps and works fine. Would have to check but think I screwed small self tapping screws into the plug end of the cable to make a good connection. ( the original has a soldered disc on the end of the cable) Covered the cable to cap with heat shrink to waterproof that area. Others have used similar but coloured.
Cheers Steve.
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2001 Standard, 78 Goldwing, VRCC 21411
Hedgehog
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 06:46:24 AM »

Thanks Black duck -  is it possible to by complete OEM lead kits? I'd rather go with the original stuff if possible.

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Dave King
Proud owner of Honda Valkyrie F6C 1997 Standard
& owner of BigBikeMad.com
salty1
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Posts: 2359


"Flyka"

Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ


« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 06:58:27 AM »

A plug wire set apparently is available from Direct Line.  

« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 12:16:29 PM by salty1 » Logged

My rides:
1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A

98valk
Member
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Posts: 13661


South Jersey


« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 07:37:48 AM »


"Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures."

www.magnecor.com

http://magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars — only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology "HotWires" produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires).

The perceived effect a brighter spark, conducted by an ignition wire, encased or partially encased in a braided metal sleeve (shield) grounded to the engine, jumping across a huge free-air gap (which bears no relationship to the spark needed to fire the variable air/fuel mixture under pressure in a combustion chamber) is continually being re-discovered and cleverly demonstrated by marketers who convince themselves there's monetary value in such a bright spark, and all sorts of wild, completely un-provable claims are made for this phenomena.

Like many in the past, Nology cleverly demonstrates a brighter free-air spark containing useless flash-over created by the crude "capacitor" (effect) of this style of wire. In reality, the bright spark has no more useful energy to fire a variable compressed air/fuel mixture than the clean spark you would see in a similar demonstration using any good carbon conductor wire. What is happening in such a demonstration is the coil output is being unnecessarily boosted to additionally supply spark energy that is induced (and wasted) into the grounded braided metal sleeve around the ignition wire's jacket. To test the validity of this statement, ask the Nology demonstrator to disconnect the ground strap and observe just how much energy is sparking to ground.

Claims by Nology of their "HotWires" creating sparks that are "300 times more powerful," reaching temperatures of "100,000 to 150,000 degrees F" (more than enough to melt spark plug electrodes), spark durations of "4 billionths of a second" (spark duration is controlled by the ignition system itself) and currents of "1,000 amperes" magically evolving in "capacitors" allegedly "built-in" to the ignition wires are as ridiculous as the data and the depiction of sparks in photographs used in advertising material and the price asked for these wires! Most stock ignition primaries are regulated to 6 amperes and the most powerful race ignition to no more than 40 amperes at 12,000 RPM.

It is common knowledge amongst automotive electrical engineers that it is unwise to use ignition wires fitted with grounded braided metal sleeves fitted over ignition cable jackets on an automobile engine. This type of ignition wires forces its cable jackets to become an unsuitable dielectric for a crude capacitor (effect) between the conductor and the braided metal sleeves. While the wires function normally when first fitted, the cable jackets soon break down as a dielectric, and progressively more spark energy is induced from the conductors (though the cable jackets) into the grounded metal sleeves, causing the ignition coil to unnecessarily output more energy to fire both the spark plug gaps and the additional energy lost via the braided metal sleeves. Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures. It should be noted that it is dangerous to use this style of wires if not grounded to the engine with grounding straps, as the outside of the braided cables will be alive with thousands of volts wanting to ground-out to anything (or anybody) nearby.

Unless you are prepared to accept poorly suppressed ignition wires that fail sooner than any other type of ignition wires and stretch your ignition system to the limit, and have an engine with no electronic management system and/or exhaust emission controls, it's best not to be influenced by the exaggerated claims, and some vested-interest journalists', resellers' and installers' perception an engine has more power after Nology wires are fitted. Often, after replacing deteriorated wires, any new ignition wires make an engine run better.

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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
R J
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DS-0009 ...... # 173

Des Moines, IA


« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 07:50:00 AM »

I don't know about anyone else, but we used some ungodly concocsion of plugs wires and etc in our circle track car.     Was a young punk then and thought we knew it all.

After burning holes in about a dozen pistons, we decided something was wrong.

Went back to a normal plug, normal wires and never lost another piston.

So those claims you run across all the time I don't have time to read them.   Pistons and tear down time is expensive, even if you are doing it yourself.

When you see a demonstration of this type. I walk up, ad ask in loud enough voice, those around can hear, do you people guarantee I don't burn pistons, and if so, do I send my engine to you or will you reimburse me.

Usually, end of demo.

So, I'd say, be cautious, very cautious in your wires and etc.

This is my humble opinion.     

Putting 70+ years of experience behind this post.
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hubcapsc
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upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 08:12:30 AM »

A plug wire set apparently isn't available from Direct Line.  Sad

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp


Look on the coil page. They're about $30 apiece. They're not all the same exact price, since they're not
all the exact same length I guess...



-Mike
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Ricky-D
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South Carolina midlands


« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 08:19:06 AM »

Suppression wires and resistor caps and resistor plugs are necessary to maintain a healthy ignition.

Spark heat is not affected by using wires other that OEM.

It is foolhardy to think improvement can be made with aftermarket junk.

Bite the bullet and get OEM.

***
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
Phil57
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Posts: 385


Jenison MI


« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 08:47:13 AM »

What is the thinking on replacement of the wires. A 13 year old well maintained bike that is running fine. Is this a PM type of thing or only done when there is a issue. We used to replace the wires plugs and cap before EI but the wires are totally different now. Is there a loss of performance in the wire before they "fail"?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 09:58:07 AM by Phil57 » Logged
98valk
Member
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Posts: 13661


South Jersey


« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 09:17:24 AM »

Suppression wires and resistor caps and resistor plugs are necessary to maintain a healthy ignition.

Spark heat is not affected by using wires other that OEM.

It is foolhardy to think improvement can be made with aftermarket junk.

Bite the bullet and get OEM.

***


the stock wires are solid metal core wires not suppression wires, the suppression is provided by the resistor in the end cap.
per http://magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
"Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires are still used in racing on carbureted engines, but can cause all sorts of running problems if used on vehicles with electronic ignition, fuel injection and engine management systems, particularly if vehicle is driven on the street — and damage to some original equipment and modern aftermarket electronic ignition and engine management systems can occur. Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires."

this is why I use moroso which are made almost like the magnecors. if magnecore had cables in yellow I would buy them.
the butt dyno did notice a slight difference, better, in acceleration switching from OEM to the moroso, YBDMV
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 04:15:28 PM by CA » Logged

1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
98valk
Member
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Posts: 13661


South Jersey


« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 11:17:59 AM »

Thanks Black duck -  is it possible to by complete OEM lead kits? I'd rather go with the original stuff if possible.





coils and wires $30 plus shipping

http://stores.ebay.com/PinWall-Cycle-Parts-Inc/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-/_i.html?_nkw=coil&submit=Search&_fsub=5665389&_sid=12458664
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Hedgehog
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Posts: 393



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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 08:36:28 AM »

Thanks everyone for your time in framing useful replies.

I've bitten the bullet (if my wallet had teeth they'd now all be broken) and gone for OEM.

I share the feeling about aftermarket parts with big claims.


Original Honda parts are expensive over here - the wires are about $325 for a set, but its a project bike, so most of the bike's systems will be replaced as I go along anyway. The aim is o produce (virtually) a 'new' Valkyrie by the end. New suspension, brakes, bearings, belts already done. Now its the electrics turn. Any parts that are good are sold, replaced with new, anything that has a fault is binned.

I am of course, quite mad.  crazy2

But its my money and I love the bike. Best I ever had.







« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 02:51:26 AM by Hedgehog » Logged

Dave King
Proud owner of Honda Valkyrie F6C 1997 Standard
& owner of BigBikeMad.com
junior
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Posts: 1427


new hampshire


« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2012, 01:28:58 AM »

i have nology wirs on my valk.  but i had removed the capasitors for the coils. they do work well even in the rain
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