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Author Topic: Steering Fixation  (Read 2036 times)
Mountainman
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1997 Standard and 1996 Wing

Ottsville, Pa


« on: May 31, 2012, 05:40:36 AM »

  I would like some information on " Steering Fixation '. I am looking through David Hough's " Profcient Motorcycling " Books and can not find where it say's you steer where you look. I remember I read it somewhere and I am trying to find it. If you can refer me to where I can find it I would be most appreciative for some one quite close to me was on the BRP monday and totaled his "Wing" and was in U.T.s intensive care unit for a little while.

  He came upon a curve and went into the grass and went up on the drive again ( hitting a snake edge, abt 4" ) then a tank slapper flipped him and the Bike several times. The bike is trash and he has a lot of rash but with broken ribe and shoulder blade is surivable.  But the Cop's gave him a ticket for speed infraction even though he was well below the speed limit. A court date is in the future and printed information will help keep his driving record clean and Insurance costs down.

  So If you can help with Information where to get the material, I would be most appreciative.
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F6BANGER
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Albuquerque NM


« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 05:57:25 AM »

look up target fixation

here is a perfect example

Target Fixationpowered by Aeva
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 05:59:11 AM by F6BANGER » Logged
Jess from VA
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 06:01:58 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation

Target Fixationpowered by Aeva


http://www.oncourse4wd.com/roadcraft/target_fixation.asp

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0612_controlling_panic/index.html

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solo1
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New Haven, Indiana


« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 06:19:19 AM »

Hough doesn't exactly mention that you go where you look but he does mention that you look into the curve or turn, the same thing expressed in a different way. 

Target fixation is just another way of mentioning the same.  The 'target' should be constantly changing and it is where you want to go and will go.

Some years back, I was looking into a sharp curve and was momentarily distracted by what I thought was an oil spill on the road. I ran off the road but regained my concentration again to look where I wanted to go and saved it.

I would refer you to the DVD "Ride like A Pro" by Jerry 'Motorman' Pallidino where he is constantly reminding us that we will go where we're LOOKING which can be good or bad.  This is a very good DVD to help new and old riders.

Hope this helps.
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sugerbear
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wentzville mo


« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 07:33:20 AM »

yep, wide open highway in Montana. nothing around for miles, saw a spot on the highway, stared at it trying to figure out what  it was.  ran through the middle of a dead skunk.
stink stayed through Utah, Idaho, Colorado. and three washings.  Embarrassed Embarrassed crazy2
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Red Diamond
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Beaumont, Texas


« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 09:50:36 AM »

Target fixation is also taught when riding a horse. Look where you want the horse to go, it works. When I u-turn my bike and look at the grassy shoulder I tend to go to that shoulder. If I fix my sights on the road where I want to go, I go in that direction.
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If you are riding  and it is a must that you keep your eyes on the road, you are riding too fast.
old2soon
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Willow Springs mo


« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 01:53:00 PM »

When i started driving truck and as the videos got better and the instructors got better all of them sorta said the same thing-look where you want to go and you will go there. Everytime i got close to the edge or did in fact run off the road or race course it was a split second of NOT having my eyes where they needed to be. Wink Inattention in the case of our mototcycles will do you quicker than a cage will. crazy2 Again as always-RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check.  1964  1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
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OldOneEye
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 02:16:47 PM »

I have a good vid I took from the front of my valk were two guys go off the road, first one because he saw a tail light and then hit brake and then the guy in front of me target fixed on him and followed him into the dirt.


go to this link http://youtu.be/Oqr-edYYYGw I have a good description of what happened

GMR accident real time and slow mo footagepowered by Aeva
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2000 Valk
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Deridder, Louisiana


« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 02:41:18 PM »

Target fixation was a problem for some Cobra pilots in Vietnam.  We used folding fin aerial rockets non guided, so like pool you used English while diving in to get them on target.  Some would be concentrating so hard on target they didnt pull up in time.  An area called V C Lake and also the Humen Forest had a number of them sticking out of the ground, planted nose first.  Not too hard to do as in a dive was easy to exceed 200 knots though VNE was 190 knots.   It is true you tend to steer where you look, and curves are much easier if you look around the curve.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 04:12:53 PM »

Another easy example.... how many times have you been riding along and a cage comes alongside and driver/passengers are looking at your bike, and sure as little green apples, the driver gradually steers over towards you as he is looking. 
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art
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Grants Pass,Or

Grants Pass,Or


« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 04:51:42 PM »

Another easy example.... how many times have you been riding along and a cage comes alongside and driver/passengers are looking at your bike, and sure as little green apples, the driver gradually steers over towards you as he is looking. 
Have you ever been checking out the good looking gal in the car next to you and found your bike drifting closer and closer.that is one way of getting her address,after you sideswipe the car.
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GiG
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 05:31:14 AM »

target fixation

http://redlinesuperbike.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27941


Target fixation is a process by which the brain is focused so intently on an observed object that awareness of other obstacles or hazards can diminish. Also, in an avoidance scenario, the observer can become so fixated on the target that they will forget to take the necessary action to avoid it, thus colliding with the object.

This is a common issue for motorcyclists and mountain bikers. A motorcycle or bicycle will tend to go where the rider is looking; if the rider is overly focused on an obstacle, the cycle can collide with that object simply because of the rider's focus on it, even though the rider is ostensibly trying to avoid it.

The term target fixation was used in World War II fighter-bomber pilot training to describe pilots flying into targets during a strafing or bombing run.
REFERENCE WIKIPEDIA



One dictionary defines panic as "a sudden, overpowering, often contagious terror." That's a remarkably accurate description of panic as it applies to motorcyclists. From the countless motorcycle crashes I've witnessed and investigated over 25 years of street riding, 14 years of road racing and nearly a decade of full-time motorcycle track instruction, I can tell you that panic is by far the greatest cause of crashes. Ironically, it's an instinct programmed into our minds back when we were defending ourselves against saber-toothed tigers that's the culprit, not panic brought on by the more commonly feared left-turning vehicles, lack of traction, etc., that are usually listed as the greatest dangers to our motorcycling well-being.

Controlling panic is best approached on two fronts. The first is understanding what triggers panic and (obviously) avoiding the situations that create it. Any number of things can trigger panic, and they vary from person to person, but most are linked to time, speed or some state of surprise. These, not surprisingly, are interrelated as well.

Of course, avoiding these triggers is best accomplished by expanding your visual awareness by looking farther ahead and using your peripheral vision to become aware of things before they become a hazard. Linked to visual awareness is speed; the higher your speed, the farther your field of awareness needs to extend and the better your bike control skills need to be. You need to be confident in the actual action of steering and braking at the highest speed you choose to travel, not just confident about it in theory. You must be able to do it on demand at a moment's notice, in the most unexpected and inconvenient circumstances.

The second way to deal with panic is gaining knowledge of its responses and training yourself how best to counteract or overcome them. If you learn one lesson from this Riding Skills Series column, make sure it's this: Look where you want to go. It sounds ridiculously basic, but believe me, in a panic situation this action becomes perhaps the single most difficult-and yet most critical-thing to do. This is because in nearly every panic situation, the primary response is to target-fixate on the immediate hazard.

Target fixation is dangerous for a number of reasons, but most critical is the fact that panic usually causes us to fixate on the bad (the brake lights of the car skidding in front of us, the ditch to the outside of the oncoming right turn or the gravel trap at the racetrack) and ignore the good (blocking out any available escape routes, or the turn you're attempting to make). For better or for worse (usually the latter), you and your motorcycle will go exactly where you're looking. Narrowing a rider's field of vision is just one of the negative effects of visual fixation. Fixation also impairs our natural perception of speed because peripheral vision tends to blur in a fast-forward-type effect not unlike that of hitting the fast-forward button on a DVD player.

It's important to realize how little additional speed it takes to trigger panic entering a turn. Did you know that we all have a natural perception of speed based on visual information and other senses? How precise is this awareness of speed? Most experienced riders can feel a difference of 1 or 2 mph in turns. Advanced riders and racers' sense of speed is often calibrated in tenths of a mile per hour. Don't believe me? Next time you're at an AMA Superbike event, put a stopwatch on any of the front-runners and see how little their lap times vary (barring outside influences like lapped traffic and tire wear, obviously). You'll most likely see lap times differ no more than tenths of a second from one lap to the next. On a 2.5-mile track with lap times in the 1:30 range, a change of one second per lap is a 1.1-mph difference in average speed. That means that the racer's average corner speed, and resulting speed on the straights, is varying by no more than 1.1 mph from one lap to the next. A full-second change in lap time is considered a huge difference by racers.

Let's say you're leading a group of friends down a favorite road on Sunday morning and approaching a challenging decreasing-radius right-hander that you've entered at 58-62 mph on various weekends, depending on the amount of coffee you had at breakfast and how confident you were feeling on a particular morning. How much additional speed would be necessary to trigger panic? Would you believe less than 2 mph? Just that extra 2 mph faster than your maximum comfort speed will make your eyes enlarge to the size of saucers; an additional 4 mph will feel like 100 and send you into cardiac arrest. The important point to remember, however, is that what feels like 40 mph too fast is most likely only 5 mph or less. And it doesn't take much additional braking to scrub off even 5 mph.

The final important aspect of panic is that it typically doesn't dissipate until you've slowed to a running pace (say, 10-15 mph) or below; again, probably due to the fact that our panic instincts were programmed into our minds long before Kawasaki came along with the ZX-14. The typical panicked, target-fixated rider usually runs straight off the track, remains hard on the brakes and either tips over at a crawl or comes to a terrified stop in the dirt; in a 60-mph corner at a track I'm familiar with, it's usually within an average of about 10 feet off the edge of the track. I ask students, "If you're able to come to a stop 10 feet off the track, how fast were you going at the time?" The answer is, Not very fast.

Panic so impairs our perception and judgment that it often causes us to go straight off the road or track when we could have easily negotiated the corner under different circumstances. The same can apply for a car turning in front of you or encountering an unforeseen hazard in the road. Panic induced by these situations can be overcome by resisting the temptation to fixate on the hazard; you must force yourself to continue thinking about your riding, scrub off the necessary speed and stay focused on where you want to go, not what you're trying to avoid. For instance, the aforementioned Sunday morning situation can be handled by looking far into the corner, dragging the brakes a little longer to bring the speed back into the comfort zone, and simply applying a smooth steering input to bend into the corner.

We may never be able to totally eliminate panic from our riding experiences, but hopefully you'll have the basic knowledge and skills to realize that when you feel the panic start to come on, you have the power to reach over and flick the panic switch off just as quickly as it switched on.
(REFERENCE SPORT RIDER MAGAZINE DECEMBER 2006 ISSUE)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 07:49:14 AM by Motor City GiG » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 09:30:26 AM »

I have a good vid I took from the front of my valk were two guys go off the road, first one because he saw a tail light and then hit brake and then the guy in front of me target fixed on him and followed him into the dirt.


go to this link http://youtu.be/Oqr-edYYYGw I have a good description of what happened

GMR accident real time and slow mo footage


Along with target fixation BOTH of those riders are crap and obviously should not have been riding in that group at a speed they couldn't cope with. Group riding IS NOT the place to learn to ride.

WTF was all the left legs wagging around. Did they think they were GP racers?

Quite pitiful to see red bike rider at hardly any lean giving up.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 09:33:49 AM by Britman » Logged
T-Bird
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 01:48:42 PM »

Always try to focus your eyes on the road 30 yards ahead of you, sorta of like scanning the road and not let yourself focus on any object. Even the best riders will get target fixation from time to time. As Brittman said, riding in groups is the worse place to get it. So many people focusing on the back of the bike in front of them.
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hairyteeth
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NW Ohio


« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 02:30:35 PM »

I had steering fixation bad. I think it came from too many years of guiding over the hood while farming. I can plant a field of corn straight as a gps on auto-steer, or cultivate all day long without getting off the row. Even though as a teenager I had 4 different motorcycles each one a little larger...I didn't know how to turn a bike. MANY thanks to patient MSF course instructors and practice practice practice, I'm getting much better. Probably never get to ride with Tenn NC group but I'll know enough to leave em plenty of road to get past me!
Hairy
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indybobm
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Franklin, Indiana VRCC # 5258


« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2012, 06:07:37 AM »

I think we have heard that if you do not want to hit the chuckhole in the road ahead, do not look at it. I think there is something else going on here.

When at any speed over say, 5 mph, you turn a bike by counter-steering. You try to turn the bars to the right and the bike goes go the left. In a panic situation, without motorcycle riding experience, there can be a tendency to think I have to go left so I must turn the bars in that direction. When you do, the bike goes in the opposite direction and at that point it is too late. The front end seems 'locked-up' and you go off of the road (or hit the car, dog, or whatever you are trying to avoid). With enought riding experience, counter-steering becomes second-nature and your body responds automatically.

There is a good explaination of this in the June 2012 issue of Cycle World on page 104 under the heading 'Unintentional steering lock'. An inexperienced rider should practice quick evasive maneuvers to develope muscle memory for such situations.

I think that this is a MUST READ article for anyone riding a motorcycle, especially new riders.

I had a good friend who, years ago, bought a brand new Ninja. He had about 20 miles on it when he went riding with friends. He 'lost' the bike going around a corner and ended up with a limp for the rest of his life. He was in over his head due to the lack of experience and trying to stay up with everyone else. A very BAD position to be in.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 07:59:57 AM by indybobm » Logged

So many roads, so little time
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2012, 09:19:10 AM »

Bike Cornering Biblepowered by Aeva
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Canuck
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Palmetto Bay FL


« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2012, 09:49:45 AM »

 cooldude cooldude
He touched on it briefly, but did not talk about where you need to be looking through a corner.  Only mentioned target fixation when the one fella blew the corner.

Good video - thanks for sharing...
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Michael K (Az.)
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 10:40:21 AM »

WTF was all the left legs wagging around. Did they think they were GP racers?

Quite pitiful to see red bike rider at hardly any lean giving up.


That's what I noticed, also! They were in the wrong place at the wrong speed.
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indybobm
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Franklin, Indiana VRCC # 5258


« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2012, 11:01:19 AM »

Excellant video Britman! Thanks for posting it. Most people counter-steer without even realizing it.  The point is in the video that started this post, when someone gets in a left handed turn and gets worried (panics) and then turns the handlebars to the left to 'make' the bike turn, they are off the road. That is why the bike was almost vertical, not leaning! I think the second guy just applied too much front brake when the tire got on the dirt.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 11:06:09 AM by indybobm » Logged

So many roads, so little time
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