Not starting- still/again!!

[Tx Bohemian]

I have a problem with my '99 Standard not starting when the temp gets 50deg or below.  It will crank but not start up. Checked and made sure it's not the normal "choke engagement"  problem these bikes have.  Choke is adjusted properly and the enricher plunger is totally engaged when choke lever is applied. Plus I can smell gas after a bit of cranking.

Not that big a deal cause I'm not crazy about riding in cold weather anyway. But was thinking that what ever is wrong it could get worse.
I think that may be happpening now.

Was on a poker run this Sat and on the third stop, probably rode 30 miles by this time, I cut the bike off for about 2 minutes. Came back, started it like normal, waited for all the "loud a$$" Harleys to get started and noticed my bike died.
Went to restart it and it would just crank but not start, like it does when the temps cold.
All the other bikes took off.  I cranked on it a bit more and was about to give up, call the wife to come get me and thought I'd try it one more time and it sputtered and started.
Caught up with the others and finished the run, probably stopping and starting this thing 10 more times with no problem.

Over the last 6 months or so I've changed the ignition switch and got another CDI on it and these have not changed/fixed the problem.

I was always leaning  towards this being an ignition problem and the fact it was well warmed up this last time it wouldn't start.

Any suggestions/ideas are welcomed.

[MP]

Do you have another battery you could slip in there??  You might have a weak one, not dead, but weak.  Could cause what you are experiencing. Maybe.

MP

[signart]

Yep, what MP said. Takes a good spin or no fire.

[R J]

Jump start it off of a NON-running vehicle.

Did it start?   NO.   Apply some more pressure to that choke.    Try it again....
Did it start?   Yes but it died.   

Okay, keep ur firkin fingers off of that throttle till it cranks and runs.  Back off the choke slowly.

Let it idle a little bit before trying to blurp the throttle.

One last question.

Is the choke top of the handle, pointing straight across to the other grip.

If not, push on that bugger some more, you is not gettin choke if it is not pointing directly across.

This is the biggest problem with starting, operator failure to engage choke.   Just cause you moved it on the pivot, does not mean you got any choke.   It the top of the choke handle is not pointed STRAIGHT, no angle, across the tank to the other grip you do not have a nickles worth of choke applied.

Push on that SOB, you ain't going to break it.

RJ off the totem pole now.

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, maybe in the OP I didn't explain it very well.

It was close to 95 degrees on Saturday and I already rode about 30 miles so the bike was up to normal operating temp. 
Or do ya'll use the choke everytime ya'll start these bikes? Hot or cold.

When it wouldn't start I cranked probably a couple of minutes total.  My understanding of batteries is unless you charge it with the alternator or a battery charger it is not going to get any better, only worse.

It started right up but then died and I didn't jump it or charge it before it started after the cranking so I would think it is not the battery.
Or am I wrong in my thinking?

[Chrisj CMA]

Ok, maybe in the OP I didn't explain it very well.

It was close to 95 degrees on Saturday and I already rode about 30 miles so the bike was up to normal operating temp. 
Or do ya'll use the choke everytime ya'll start these bikes? Hot or cold.

When it wouldn't start I cranked probably a couple of minutes total.  My understanding of batteries is unless you charge it with the alternator or a battery charger it is not going to get any better, only worse.

It started right up but then died and I didn't jump it or charge it before it started after the cranking so I would think it is not the battery.
Or am I wrong in my thinking?

You are describing a weak battery.  Do as was suggested, when it wont start jump it to your car and if it starts go get a new battery and DO NOT JUST LET THE ALTERNATOR CHARGE IT.  Put it on a trickle charge until the green light comes on and then it will serve you well.

[MOODY]

If you have a weak battery it will have enough to spin the motor, but will not have enough to fire the coils, some times when you let off the starter button the coils will fire and it will start. I had this problem right after I bought my 97 in 2000, picked up the bike fron original owner in Febuary who kept it in a heated shop and took it to my unheated garage and next afternoon w/ temp in hi 60's motor would spin over good but would not start and after about 5 min. battery was dead, put battery on tender and next day fired right up, but w/ batt. off tender same problem long story but I installed a new Interstate gell battery on 02-10-2000 and problem solved. Oh still running the same battery over 12 years , Hope this helps

[X Ring]

I agree.  Battery.  My tourer was acting like that not long after I bought it.  New battery fixed everything.

Marty

[John Schmidt]

Side stand switch! Either dirty, loose or sticking, or the switch pigtail connections in front of the battery are loose/corroded. Stranger things have happened.

[gordonv]

Side stand switch! Either dirty, loose or sticking, or the switch pigtail connections in front of the battery are loose/corroded. Stranger things have happened.

But wouldn't those not allow the starter to turn, like starting in gear?

[Tx Bohemian]

Side stand switch! Either dirty, loose or sticking, or the switch pigtail connections in front of the battery are loose/corroded. Stranger things have happened.

But wouldn't those not allow the starter to turn, like starting in gear?

This is my question too.  Not sure about the "switch pigtail" in front of the battery (where is that?) but my side stand switch will not allow the bike to even crank over if the stand is down and in gear.  Or is there a mode that will allow the engine to crank but not start?

As far as the suggestions of a "weak battery" the battery is about 1-1/2yrs old, is on a battery tender device always and it did not fix/or change this problem even when brand new.
I have jumped it off with a car battery but even then it didn't start right away, still had to crank on it a bit before it started, kinda the same way it does without jumping.
In comparison, before this problem occured, I have ran the battery down, jumped it and then I don't think the engine turned over one complete round before it started right up.

[Challenger]

You need to find out whether you have an electrical problem or fuel problem before you can fix it, Pick up one of those little pen light looking gadgets that light up when you put it against the plug wires, that will tell you if you have spark or not when it doesn't start, and can go from there.

[John Schmidt]

Side stand switch! Either dirty, loose or sticking, or the switch pigtail connections in front of the battery are loose/corroded. Stranger things have happened.

But wouldn't those not allow the starter to turn, like starting in gear?

This is my question too.  Not sure about the "switch pigtail" in front of the battery (where is that?) but my side stand switch will not allow the bike to even crank over if the stand is down and in gear.  Or is there a mode that will allow the engine to crank but not start?

You're absolutely right....assuming you don't have a dirty/damaged switch. I was merely making a suggestion of places to look, nothing more. As for "the switch pigtail in front of the battery (where is that?)", the wires from that sidestand switch run up and connect in the area in front of the battery. Same general area where the turn signal flasher and "tip over" relay is located. However I doubt the connection is the trouble, only time that would ever come loose is if someone was in there tinkering with wiring and such.

[MarkT]

One other thing.  Are you new to this bike?  Valve adjustment history?  If the valves haven't been adjusted lately, over time some will tighten up because the seats wear faster than the stems.  If that happens, the tight valves aren't fully closed and compression suffers and it gets hard to start.  Happened to me recently - I hadn't adjusted for some time - when I did, EVERY cylinder had at least one valve, too tight.  When adjusted - no more hard-to-start problem.

[Ricky-D]

I think it's a little premature to suggest valve lash problems may be the culprit.

I say this in view of his statement:

In comparison, before this problem occured, I have ran the battery down, jumped it and then I don't think the engine turned over one complete round before it started right up.

And incidentally, if there was a question in this regard, a simple compression test would be adequate.

Just trying to help TxB and not lead the man down a useless path.

***

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Have you ever tried push starting it when this happens. If you can push start it then the problem anit fuel and mostly the battery is the problem. These bikes are pretty easy to push start.

[Tx Bohemian]

You're absolutely right....assuming you don't have a dirty/damaged switch. I was merely making a suggestion of places to look, nothing more. As for "the switch pigtail in front of the battery (where is that?)", the wires from that sidestand switch run up and connect in the area in front of the battery. Same general area where the turn signal flasher and "tip over" relay is located. However I doubt the connection is the trouble, only time that would ever come loose is if someone was in there tinkering with wiring and such.

Yeah I'm leaning this way that there is a bad connection somewhere and very well could be in the switch.  I need to disassemble and clean/repair.
As far as anyone "tinkering with wiring and such" this is very possible cause there was a bunch of tinkering by the previous owner (and myself but I never messed with wires in the "tip over" area).

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  Looks like I've got some "exploritory surgery" to do searching for a bad/corroded connection.

Was really hoping someone would say "hey, my bike did the exact same thing and this is how I fixed it"!!

But I ought to know by now my luck doesn't run that way.

These bikes are pretty easy to push start.

Really??
I've never had the opportunity (yet) but I'd think as heavy as these are they would be a b!tch to push start!

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

You would think that but I've push started mine several times while on a trip and the alt. went out. I just put it in sec and helded the clutch in key on and got it rolling and then jumped on popped the clutch and varoooom. I also learn to gas up at stations that were on a grade and use it to roll start the bike while rolling down hill.

[Kymbo]

I did have an electrical problem a couple of weeks ago, not the same but may be worth a look,I'd be riding and pull up to park some where and turn my bars and the motor would shut down.turned out to be a broken wire in the back of the head light just where the wiring enters the back of it .there was obviously a little too much pressure against the edge of the hole and turning the bars was enought to break the connection.when i investigated the wire was not visibly broken(cable insulation was intact) and i needed to wiggle each wire seperatly to find which one it was.

[Madmike]

 I agree with your questioning the battery problem, battery voltage typically goes down with extended cranking as you say you have done.  Itseems you have an intermittent problem from what you have said and you may have to chase it for awhile. 

I like the suggestion about the inductive tester for spark as that would help determine if it is ignition or fuel.

[Tx Bohemian]

...turned out to be a broken wire in the back of the head light just where the wiring enters the back of it .there was obviously a little too much pressure against the edge of the hole and turning the bars was enought to break the connection.when i investigated the wire was not visibly broken(cable insulation was intact) and i needed to wiggle each wire seperatly to find which one it was.

Yeah, it looks like this is what I'm facing too.  Just gonna have to bite the bullet and do some serious looking.

Really don't think it's fuel related due to the fact the last time it happened I rode 30 miles, cut it off for about 2 minutes and it cranked up for about 30 seconds then died, not enough time for all six carbs to run out of fuel (plus as we all know if you don't turn the fuel valve on, it doesn't just die- it will start sputtering for a good while then eventually stop)

Probably start with the bar switches and clean them (thing is these have been replaced when I changed the triple trees, forks, and bars a year ago).
Then proceed to headlight bucket and check all the connections and attempt what you've mentioned about the "not obvious" bad connections. (I used to be in the automotive repair business for 20yrs I realize this can be a major undertaking).

I'll also look around the starter solenoid area for corroded/bad connections.

This bike did sit, covered up with a tarp,  for over 2-1/2yrs before I bought it and the S. Texas humidity did a number on the aftermarket electrical connections and chromed pieces (hence the reason for the fork replacement) so no telling what else was affected.

Thanks again guys for the suggestions.