**SOLVED** Clicking / Tapping Noise After Oil Change

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

I recently purchased a 1999 I/S with 34,000 miles on her. I purchased out of state and had a dealer give the bike a quick checkout. While not quite pristine, I was told the bike was in above average condition. So after getting the bike home and riding for about a month, I decided to change the oil as I was not sure when the last oil change was done. I used a K&N KN303C oil filter and Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 oil. As soon as I started the engine, I could hear a noticeable clicking/tapping noise I had never heard from the bike before. I let her run long enough to be certain the oil filter was full and checked the oil level, which was right on the money. If I let the bike idle it gets progressively quieter and within about 5 minutes the clicking/tapping noise is gone. Once the bike cools off and is started again, the noise returns until she warms up.

I've been reading the tech form as well as looking at other sites. At least one person said they hear a clicking sound after each oil change which diminishes over time. Others often ask if the bike has been desmogged. My buddy at work suggests I drain the oil and oil filter (reuse the same oil filter since it is new) and try the Hondaline oil to see if it make a difference. His logic is it happened right after an oil change and maybe it is not "happy" with Rotella oil. The oil that was drained (in the bike when I bought it) did not seem to be radically different in viscosity.

Based on the facts this started happening immediately after and oil change and the clicking sound goes away after the bike warms up (even if it idles about 5 minutes), what is the most likely culprit and/or what actions should I take?

Thanks,
Greg

[Chrisj CMA]

I doubt its the oil, but If it bugs you and its worth the extra $$  Try changing to a full synthetic like Mobile one.........just make sure the bottom of the  spec seal is blank on whichever oil you choose.  If it says "energy conserving" in the bottom portion if the specs seal you dont want it

[hotglue #43]

have you checked the tightness of the header nuts?  A leak will tick until warmed up sometimes.

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

I doubt its the oil, but If it bugs you and its worth the extra $$  Try changing to a full synthetic like Mobile one.........just make sure the bottom of the  spec seal is blank on whichever oil you choose.  If it says "energy conserving" in the bottom portion if the specs seal you dont want it

If the sound is nothing to worry about and is not causing damage, I can live with it as it only lasts a few minutes. Then on the next oil change I may try a synthetic.

have you checked the tightness of the header nuts?  A leak will tick until warmed up sometimes.

I have not checked the tightness of the header nuts and can do that after work today. However I did ride the bike Friday and Saturday then changed the oil Sunday morning. I did not hear the sound on Friday or Saturday. I do appreciate your feedback and will check the header nuts.

[Skinhead]

If anything, I would be suspicious of the oil filter.  Some have an anti drain back valve perhaps that is tickinc.  Put along screwdriver on the filter and put your ear on the handle and see if you can determine where the tick is coming from.  If the filter replace with an OEM.

[old2soon]

Go to the shop talk page and find the known problems with our fat ladies.   That will give you some light reading in yer spare time and better acquaint you with our somewhat different motorcycles. All the suggestions that go before mine are good ones. Thet do have some noises that are unique to our machines and are worth reading about. But as you can tell-you came to the right place to ask. And welcome to our little corner of the insanity. RIDE SAFE.

[R J]

It should tick (tappets) when 1st started on an oil change,


Get yourself 4 quarts of Mobil 1, lower part of circle blank, a Honda filter and forget about it.

It is normal for a solid lifter engine.

I run Mobil 1, 20-50W in MGM.  That is all he has had in 240K miles.  NO problems.

Just ride it like ya stole it.

[Ricky-D]

Cut a short length of garden hose and use it as a stethoscope.

No sense in thrashing about when you cant identify where the noise is emitting.

Start to mess with things and other problems can occur.

There are many possible sources for the "ticking".

Identify the cause. FIRST !!!

***

[cef2lion]

If not de-smogged the pair valves can emit a ticking noise at idle which is normal. Its possible thats what your hearing and you didn't notice it before.

[MarkT]

Speaking of stethoscopes, next time you're in Harbor freight, pick up theirs.  It's only $4 and works very well.  I did years ago, and have used it several times to isolate sounds. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-41966.html

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

Speaking of stethoscopes, next time you're in Harbor freight, pick up theirs.  It's only $4 and works very well.  I did years ago, and have used it several times to isolate sounds. 

Funny you mention this as I am going to Harbor Freight to buy this stethoscope during lunch!

It should tick (tappets) when 1st started on an oil change,
...

Not sure if you mean only once after starting the engine after an oil change, but I rode twice and started it two other times on Sunday, rode to work and started it at lunch yesterday, and all seven times I started it after it had been cool, the clicking noise was present.

If not de-smogged the pair valves can emit a ticking noise at idle which is normal. Its possible thats what your hearing and you didn't notice it before.

My I/S is not desmogged but this clicking sound is VERY pronounced upon startup even though it goes away within a few minutes. It gets quieter and quieter until it is no longer noticeable. In addition to me, two of my riding buddies are in agreement the sound was not there before the recent oil change.

...
Start to mess with things and other problems can occur.

There are many possible sources for the "ticking".

Identify the cause. FIRST !!!

I agree and will use the Harbor Freight stethoscope to try to pinpoint the exact location of the clicking noise. If someone had come across a similar issue right after an oil change and suggested I change the oil and/or oil filter, I am willing to do that.

I am very pleased with the number of responses and how the promptness of the replies. I hope I can pay it forward.

Greg

[X Ring]

I used Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40 in my Tourer based on statements others made.  I had valve noise and went buggy trying to figure it out.  3,000 miles later I switched to Mobil 1 15W50 and the noise went away.

Marty

[Joevalk]

Had the same problem with mine when i used a lighter oil. I rechanged my oil to 20- 50 and all noise stopped.

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

Had the same problem with mine when i used a lighter oil. I rechanged my oil to 20- 50 and all noise stopped.

I used Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40 in my Tourer based on statements others made.  I had valve noise and went buggy trying to figure it out.  3,000 miles later I switched to Mobil 1 15W50 and the noise went away.

Thanks I appreciate your feedback. That makes sense and is a relatively inexpensive solution (if it works) with no risk. Changing my oil twice will not break anything and if I run non-synthetic, the Castrol 20W50 for $4.99/quart at O'Reilly's. If it doesn't work, I am only out the $13 + tax I paid for the Rotella Triple T.

This fits the scenario exactly. The only thing I changed on the bike is the oil and oil filter then the clicking noise started immediately. Since it is so easy to change the oil, especially compared to my V Star 1100 Classic (can you say "drop the pipes"), maybe I'll do this after work and report back.

Greg

[CajunRider]

My old "Oil Head" BMW Boxer (R1200C) made the same ticking noise... even with BMW oil.  

A slightly thicker (as mentioned already) will likely reduce this, but it isn't anything to worry about.  

Now, if you find the ticking to be coming from something other than valves, the oil may not do the trick... but since changing the oil started the ticking, well, you see where I'm going with that.  

Good luck with finding the cause and let us know what you find!!  

**Quick edit** My Valk does the same thing... 43K miles and no problems yet.  I initially though it was the pare valves... but de-smogging didn't fix it.  After some searching, I found it was the valves and quickly loss all amount of worry I had. 

[Hook#3287]

I have not checked the tightness of the header nuts and can do that after work today.

Might be to late, but be careful not to over tighten those buggers.  They break easy and that sucks.

[john]

34,000 miles ...          
thin oil ......
20-50 synthetic  ...        
no ticky ticky ...                                        
don't work on it ...         
enjoy the ride                     

[Rio Wil]

Since the bike is new to you, may I ask a very basic question, how many quarts of oil did yo put in and did you check the oil with the bike leaning on the kickstand or standing straight up?

[CASABROKER]

They are ticky by nature.  Mine is not de smoged and ticks you'll get used to it.  If it isn't the exhaust leaking it's the pair valve. 

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

Since the bike is new to you, may I ask a very basic question, how many quarts of oil did yo put in and did you check the oil with the bike leaning on the kickstand or standing straight up?

I put in what I assume to be 3.9 quarts and I checked the oil level with my bike standing up straight. I say assume as I used 3 full quarts and most of a fourth. I checked my oil level and it was exactly on the horizontal mark on the oil dipstick.

I did change the oil to Castrol 20W-50 last night and still have the ticking / tapping noise. It does go away about 5 minutes of idling. I went for a ride with my neighbor and kept her up to highway speeds for about an hour (65 - 80mph). Upon starting this morning, still have the ticking / tapping when starting and the engine is cold.

Before I do anything else I will try to identify exactly where the sound is coming from, as suggested by Ricky-D.

Greg

[Patrick]

When you recently changed the oil did you install a different oil filter ??  If not, stick a Honda filter on it and see what happens.. That said, did you ever start this monster previously ?? Are you sure this noise started right after the oil change ??

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

When you recently changed the oil did you install a different oil filter ??  If not, stick a Honda filter on it and see what happens.. That said, did you ever start this monster previously ?? Are you sure this noise started right after the oil change ??

I did switch to a K&N KN303C (a chrome filter for the Valkyrie, according to K&N) from a Fram filter that was on from the previous owner. It seems the general consensus on this board is do not use Fram filters. I have heard both K&N and Wix make great filters. I have put about 1,000 miles on this bike since I purchased it and I am 100% positive the clicking / tapping sound started immediately after the oil change. My next door neighbor who I ride with, was standing there watching me change the oil. He was making fun of me when I said "it takes 3.9 quarts, not 4". On a tangent, he argued with me that 1/10 of a quart of oil would not make a difference. That can be a debate on another thread 

Anyway, when I started her after the oil change (Rotella Triple T 15W-40), we both noticed the clicking / tapping noise. I immediately shut off the bike and checked the oil by sitting on the bike and holding her perpendicular to the ground. It was at the correct level. I have since changed the oil again to a heavier weight oil (Castrol 20W-50) but to no avail. Still have the clicking / tapping noise. I did reuse the same K&N oil filter by letting it drain in the drain pan during the second oil change. My reasoning is there was less than 100 miles since I installed it.

The sound does go away in about 5 minutes of the engine idling. The sound gets softer until it is no longer noticeable.

[CASABROKER]

IMO< If the tick subsides as it gets hot then metal is expanding.  Valves or exhaust.....

[Patrick]

That was my point.. Its easy and pretty cheap to stick on a different filter.. I know some don't like Fram,, but,, I'm not one of those.. I'd be willing to say that we have installed thousands of Fram filters without a single failure.. I've seen more failures from other filters than I care to remember..  If you don't want another Fram then why not stop by the friendly local Honda shop and buy one.. What the heck, its worth a try since you're certain the noise didn't start until the oil change.. The Honda [ I don't know who makes it] filter has been a good one..

[Rio Wil]

have you determined where in the engine the noise is coming from. the old screwdriver trick ought to isolate it pretty quickly or at least eliminate some components..right now it just seems you are pissin into the wind.......chuckle....not being nasty, just encouraging some elimination....chuckle... thats funny too...

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

I have not determined where the noise is coming from yet as I am have been stuck at work. Finally about to leave after my less than enjoyable 14 hour day. I don't disagree with your assessment of pinpointing the cause. My reasoning was nothing else changed except the oil and the filter. I did nothing else to my bike. Hopefully I will be able to pinpoint where the noise is coming from but I am not much of a mechanic. Changing oil is one thing. If I determine the sound is in the valves, for example, that would be outside my comfort zone.

Also, just curious, but if the filter is causing a reduction in oil flow resulting in a ticking sound, couldn't the noise be coming from somewhere other than the filter but the real fix is to change the oil filter? Just asking....

I am obsessing on this and will get it resolved. I will definitely post the solution once determined.

***UPDATE***
I used a screwdriver to try to determine where the clicking noise is coming from. I hear more noise from the oil filter than from anywhere else. I'm tired and will repeat this process in the morning. If I still believe the oil filter is the source of the noise, I will stop by the Honda dealership close to work and pick up a Honda oil filter. From what I have read on this forum and online, no one believes those oil filters are bad, even those who choose to use other brands of oil filters.

[Blackduck]

The filters worth a try, change it and only need a small top up of oil. Zip lock bag the filter and if it is not the cause you can use it at a later date.

[sandy]

Pair valves tick all the time but you don't hear it while riding. Loose valve tappets click and might go away when warm. Check your valve clearances and put your mind at ease.  They shouldn't click when cold.

[Hoser]

Although it does not need it often, there is a procedure to adjust the valves in the maintenence manual.   I've done mine twice in 100K miles.   Hoser

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

I did try a Honda oil filter since a friend at work had one he sold me cheap as part of a 3 pack he bought. Still no luck. Sound is still present.

Using a screwdriver as a stethoscope the sound appears to be coming from the water pump. It is most pronounced when the screwdriver is on the water pump cover. It is less pronounced at the water pump housing. A riding buddy who is much more mechanically inclined than I agreed the sound is loudest on the water pump cover. The clicking is not noticeable when using the screwdriver against the cylinder head cover or front cover. We tried listening every where on the engine and the noise seems to be coming from the water pump.

I guess it is possible the sound became noticeable coincidentally when I change the oil. I know there is an impeller in the water pump, but i don't understand why the sound would go away once the engine is warm.

I'm at the point of either disassembling the water pump to see if I can find a problem, replacing the water pump, or taking it to a professional for their assessment/diagnosis.

[John U.]

Water pumps are simple devices. If they aren't leaking they are usually fine. Yours seems likely to be a problem sometime in the not too distant future. I would suggest having one on the self and watching the one on the bike for leaks. They like silicate free antifreeze but these days seems like all antifreeze is silicate free. Anyway, it pays to read the lable.

[Rio Wil]

long shot, maybe the water pump impeller is loose on the shaft.....if you remove the pump to inspect it, beware the oil must be drained first.....I ruined a good pan of antifreeze cause I didn't.....

[Ricky-D]

I suggest to do nothing.

The water pump is driven by the oil pump shaft that is powered by a chain and sprocket inside the motor.

It sounds like a clearance may be reduced through the motor warming up.

Just keep good oil in the motor and an eye (ear) on the noise.

If there is no significant change just ride it.

Seems premature to start tearing into the motor just yet.

***

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

The last thing I did was try to locate the source of the sound. The best I could tell it was coming from the water pump. I went ahead and took it to my mechanic and when he opened the water pump, the impeller was little loose on the shaft. He removed the impeller, carefully crimped where it connects to the shaft to make it fit tighter, and replaced it. Clicking sound is now gone! He said the reason the sound went away after about 5 minutes is the metal would expand and the joint between the impeller and the tighten.

I am still not sure why I only noticed this right after an oil change, but that appears to be a red herring. I started the engine briefly before the oil change and did not hear the sound. Changed the oil and filter, started the engine, and did hear the sound. At any rate, the sound is gone and I did not have to buy any parts, so I'll consider this a success.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
Greg

[Rio Wil]

You are welcome.....

[FW_ValkyrieInterstate]

You are welcome.....

Since it had been about a week, I should have re-read the replies before posting the solution as you hit the nail on the head and I should have noted that.

[Rio Wil]

Chuckle.......one of the great things about this board is you will probably get a lot of good suggestions and at least one will get very close.    I am impressed with your mechanic's skills at getting that impeller off and replacing it.  I had a leak in my pump about 100K miles ago and bought one from ebay because I could not figure out a sure fire method of getting the impeller off to replace the leaky seal.  I do however wonder if he was able to press it back on (since it was loose) sufficiently tight to last very long.....I would try to round up a spare used one just in case....

Ride safe.

[john]

                              ???                           

[Gear Jammer]

                             ???                           

Yeah, what John said,,, 

[Dozer]

Regarding swapping  synth and dino oil, this is what I posted on the Road Star forum regarding the same issues. Yes, its a V Twin but pistons and lifters are the same regardless. This is my personal experience FWIW.

 197619.14 in reply to 197619.1 
 
I can only speak to my experience and Cappy can attest to it.

I had an 02 1100 Aero that I loved...put 50K miles on it running castrol MC dino oil, One day someone suggested synth. I tired it and couldnt keep oil in the crankcase. It used nearly 1qt in 100 miles and sounded like the motor was coming apart...and thats not normal for a duel pin honda motor. So I went back to castrol MC oil. Consumption was a little less but still too much. I figured maybe it would get better. It didnt. Whatever damage was done was permanent.

Then when I hit 65K miles Cap and I and the old Acme gang went on a long ride. When we made a gas stop, they'd buy gas & Id buy oil! I finally visited the dealer and he quoted me $3800 for a rebuild. Thats when I decided to followed Caps lead and traded the Aero on a Roadie.

I will NEVER, NEVER swap oils again. This roadie now has 60K on it & has never seen synth oil.... & it never will as long as I have it. The reverse is also true. Had I started with synth, I would have stayed with synth. Some ppl say I might have been okay with synth if the Aero had less miles on it when I changed...maybe so. But from my very personal experience, swapping oil types cost me a bike that I loved and it wont happen again. IMHO, "oil" is not just "oil".