A clicking noise, very frustrating.

[John Schmidt]

Pulled the rear wheel and final drive on a friend's bike, the left bearing was about shot. I replaced both rear wheel bearings and did the left side double row bearing mod on the wheel along with servicing the final, replaced the dampers, o-rings, the usual. Cleaned and greased up the drive shaft and pinion cup, checked the u-joint best I could without removing it and felt no irregularities. Got it all back together and it felt great, spun easily with no noises whatsoever. The owner came and got it and by the time he got home it was making a rather loud clicking noise. He put it on his lift and while spinning the wheel, finally noted it seemed to be more pronounced by laying his hand on the swingarm just forward of the four bolts that mounts the final. The following week he brought it back and left it with me to see what the noise was. I rolled it backward in the driveway and it clicked with each wheel revolution, then drove it in the garage and it did the same thing with the wheel going in the opposite direction. So, I put it on the lift with the intention of determining where it was coming from. Got the wheel off the floor and spun it....CRAP...no noise. Let it back down, put it in gear and rocked the bike back and forth both under power and engine off. Back on the lift and spun the wheel....no noise. Put it in gear while still up and manually slammed the wheel back and forth...out of gear, spun the wheel....no noise. The owner came back Saturday and took the bike for a ride, I could hear him going up/down adjacent streets riding the dog crap outa the bike, hard shifts, quick starts, the whole nine yards. Pulled back into the garage and shook his head....no noise. His feelings....if you can't duplicate it you can't fix it. Yeah, but it bugs me no end. It was loud enough that I could hear it on the phone the first time he had it on his lift, and I heard it at my place until it went on the lift. It almost sounds like something is hitting at the same interval every time the wheel comes around, just can't pin it down because the noise doesn't stay. This past week I've been doing some major rewiring for him on it and he came and got it today. He called me a couple hours later, told me the bike runs great but the clicking started again not quite halfway home. This time he says it's really strong so maybe it will stay long enough for me to spot it.

So, now I have a question re. the double row bearing mod. Is it possible to take a tad too much off the spacer, thereby allowing the rotor bolts...maybe just one that isn't seated a couple thou less than the rest, to hit something like the caliper or a caliper mounting bolt. I'm a bit baffled as why it would click with the same regularity. When I had it here the last time, I couldn't get any noise nor did there appear to be any play in the u-joint. The bike has 42k on it. He'll be bringing it back maybe this Wednesday, I'm looking for suggestions. It just doesn't act like a u-joint but who knows, I've been wrong before....think it was 1956 best I can recall, dropped out of college to join the Air Force.   

[YoungPUP]

IF you've got contact between parts somewhere (like the rotor bolts) it should leave some visual damage. Now the question is how many things could interfere (sp?) with each other.

[John Schmidt]

IF you've got contact between parts somewhere (like the rotor bolts) it should leave some visual damage. Now the question is how many things could interfere (sp?) with each other.

That's what I thought, and was the first thing I looked at when he dropped it off the first time. I looked at the bolt heads on the rear rotor but none showed any sign of contact with anything. I can only hope it "clicks" for me this time when he brings it back. Sure hope I didn't get a bad bearing or two, now that will stick in my craw.

[Tundra]

John,
 I do not have your skill or knowledge, however I very recently had my rear end off twice and when reassembled, I had the same noise/problem you describe.
  My problem was rear brakes. This was caused by myself, I threw in a set of pads while I was down there and did not do it properly. I did not remove and clean my pistons/caliper and the crud combined with a little surface rust on the pistons did not allow it to function properly. One piston was hanging up. At first it was just a click...click click noise. It grew worse and much louder into a clank...clank...clank sounded bad. You know the fix, it was the easiest possible outcome for me. I hope yours is a simple one too.
-Doug

[John Schmidt]

Thanks for the heads up Doug, I'll take a look at that. He recently had new pads installed so who knows!

[custom1]

John, Did you put a nilos ring on the double bearing? I put one on mine and it made a creaking noise for a while. I first thought it was something wrong with the new bearing. I couldn't find any play in it so decided to "just ride it" for a while. It eventually went away. I figure it was the edge of the ring cutting that little groove in the side of the bearing. Maybe...I hope. The ring has a tiny bit of clearance on the axle, so if it is not perfectly centered when you tighten the axle nut,  as the bearing turns and the ring is fixed it will be trying to make a slightly out of round groove and sort of rubbing the face of the bearing instead of cutting. Does that make any sense?

If not that then just remove one part at a time and spin the wheel, when the noise goes away then you found it.

Is it one click for one revolution?

I think someone on here wrote about the plastic dust cover on the edge of the pumpkin being out of place and rubbing on the wheel one time...I'm not sure about that tho...

Just wanted to add,      Mine was more of a creak than a click.  Also it wasn't loud enough to hear while running just when I pushed it in and out of the garage.

[indybobm]

Does it make the click with each wheel revolution or each driveshaft revolution?

[RainMaker]

I had a clicking sound after replacing the front tire and eventually traced down to the spring clip on the brake pads being bent back from my re-install of the wheel, allowing the pads to move around a bit too freely.  Quick to check - if he puts on the rear brake lightly, does it stop clicking?

[John Schmidt]

Does it make the click with each wheel revolution or each driveshaft revolution?

Apparently it does. The problem is....it didn't do it for me on the lift when he brought if back for me to check out, but did it when I was rolling it into the garage just before putting it on the lift. Just like a rattle in your car, take it to the dealer and it won't rattle. Maddening! 

[Tx Bohemian]

Sounds like the exact noise mine had.

Bought this '99 standard with 17K on it.  Checked all the levels, all was good and went riding. 
Eventually put like 500 miles on it and noticed a clicking out of the rear with every wheel revolution.
Checked the rear oil again and now it's gray and grimy! WTH!!!
The wave washer in front of the pinion gave up and part of it made a few trips around with the ring gear, chewing up the inside of the housing. This gotta be it, right?
Swapped it out with a triked bike rear diff (30Kish miles). Still had the clicking noise, DAMN!!!

Checked Ujoints, brakes, and changed out the bearings, DAMN!! STILL CLICKING!!!

Swapped out the rear wheel and that fixed it.

The PO sent out the wheels to be chromed and (in my thinking) evidently this affected the bore somehow to where the bearing "slips" back and forth (radially) in the bore. You couldn't feel it by grabbing the bearing (play) but it was enough to move with weight on it to make one heck of an annoying clicking noise. When I installed the bearings it seemed to me that they went in really easy, not a good snug fit like you would think.
Also seemed like the hotter it got (like on a 100 mile trip) the louder it was. I guess the bore opened up even more.
I was able to get another wheel from a member here to try (Thanks again Wizard) and confirmed that was the problem.
I bought this wheel and it's been a couple of thousand miles since and all is well.

I just talked to the PO a month ago and he informed me since he got the wheels back from chroming he had this problem. He would change the bearings and it would fix it for awhile (couple of thousand miles).

Do you think since the bearing failed on that bike it could've ruined the wheel?

Maybe this will help, I know what a hairpulling issue these kind of problems can be!

Good Luck!

[custom1]

Does it make the click with each wheel revolution or each driveshaft revolution?

Apparently it does. The problem is....it didn't do it for me on the lift when he brought if back for me to check out, but did it when I was rolling it into the garage just before putting it on the lift. Just like a rattle in your car, take it to the dealer and it won't rattle. Maddening! 

I don't think that was a yes or no question. It was either or. 

If it is one click per wheel revolution it is probably not in the drive line. Maybe something stuck up between the tire and fender. When you put it on the lift and drop the tire down some it goes away.

If it is multiple clicks per wheel rev then maybe something in the drive line like u-joint etc.

[John Schmidt]

Does it make the click with each wheel revolution or each driveshaft revolution?

Apparently it does. The problem is....it didn't do it for me on the lift when he brought if back for me to check out, but did it when I was rolling it into the garage just before putting it on the lift. Just like a rattle in your car, take it to the dealer and it won't rattle. Maddening! 

I don't think that was a yes or no question. It was either or. 

If it is one click per wheel revolution it is probably not in the drive line. Maybe something stuck up between the tire and fender. When you put it on the lift and drop the tire down some it goes away.

If it is multiple clicks per wheel rev then maybe something in the drive line like u-joint etc.

You're right. I went back and read his question again...either/or, like you said. Didn't catch that first time. But as stated, it didn't do it for me once on the lift so I don't know which applies. From what he described to me, it sounds like with each wheel rev which also made me wonder if something is hitting. He's bringing it back Wed. and if my back will cooperate(lower disk trouble) I'll take another look at it...assuming it's still making the noise.

[Tundra]

Figure it out John? Curious ???
  I hate pulling that rear end and having to do it more than once for the same job seams to be the norm for me.
I know what you mean, I have broken my knee, foot 3x, ribs and have degenerating disks. I know I'm younger than you, but the pain and discomfort will probably keep me from doing it anymore.

[John Schmidt]

Figure it out John? Curious ???
  I hate pulling that rear end and having to do it more than once for the same job seams to be the norm for me.
I know what you mean, I have broken my knee, foot 3x, ribs and have degenerating disks. I know I'm younger than you, but the pain and discomfort will probably keep me from doing it anymore.

Doug, that sucker is clicking like a big watch now, seems to be coming from both sides. A small click(in volume) from the right side, a louder and much more solid sound from the left, but not at the same time. Speaking of pain, if you'd quit lipping off to that pretty lady that rides with you, I'm sure your health would improve.    Yeah, I know about your injuries, as for pain....right now I'm battling the periodic return of a back injury I got in the service so pulling the rear wheel again is out of the question for now. Strange that it wasn't making any sound prior to pulling it the first time(except for the bad bearing). Now that the double row mod is installed on the left side, both sides have new bearings, it has started this noise....but not all the time. That's the part that's driving us nuts when trying to pin down the source. Soon as I am mobile again, I'll pull the rear end off, until then he says he'll just ride it. He said "if it breaks, then we'll know what the problem was." Not sure I like that approach but it's his choice. 

I'll certainly post the results....when/if we find the culprit. Barring any definitive answers, I'll just reinstall a single row bearing and the OEM spacer.

[Chrisj CMA]

John........when you do pull the wheel, check this.  It sounds just like a buddy of mine (his back wheel was clicking too) would have drove him nuts if he wasnt already crazy (to quote Jimmy Buffett) ......sorry Earl.......

Anyway you can change the bearing a thousand times but what may be happening is the bearing seat might be wallowed out so even a new bearing clics as it cocks back and forth inside the seat.  If its real mild and its the left bearing, you could try converting to the thicker (right) bearing, however, the real answer is a new wheel, especialy if its too far gone

[Tx Bohemian]

... you could try converting to the thicker (right) bearing...

If I understand the OP this has already been done during the service of the rear end.

The bad wheel senario is what I suggested also, although you did it in a much shorter version (probably easier to understand too).

[John Schmidt]

Yes Tx, the double row mod was done. Chris....that thought did occur to me re. the bearing seat. However, it took some positive pressure to install the new bearing and when seated is level on the outer edge. I might add, the wheels are chromed, but....the noise wasn't present prior to all this. The left single row bearing was toast when I knocked it out but the current owner has no way of knowing how long that bearing was in there....basically, when was the chroming done.

[Valkpilot]

Yes Tx, the double row mod was done. Chris....that thought did occur to me re. the bearing seat. However, it took some positive pressure to install the new bearing and when seated is level on the outer edge. I might add, the wheels are chromed, but....the noise wasn't present prior to all this. The left single row bearing was toast when I knocked it out but the current owner has no way of knowing how long that bearing was in there....basically, when was the chroming done.

I've got a set of chrome wheels sitting in my garage.  The PO of the bike had them chromed, then someone honed the bearing cups just a bit too large.

I didn't have clicking, but I did have that bad bearing feel when cornering.  Pulled the front and the bearings could be lifted out by hand.  Not long after, the rear presented the same symptons with the same finding.

I think ChrisjCMA is onto something.

[steve 3054]

The wheel bad " might" be an issuse, but there was no clicking sound prior to the bearing replacement.  And... just to add more information, when the bike is on a lift the sound is just as prevelant as on the ground with ( no weight ) on the wheel.  I pulled the brakes to make sure no sound was coming from them...there was not.....it is a real brain strainer...The only thing I can think of is there was an " extra " shim when John pulled it apart.   When John is better and has time we will pull it apart again and look everything over with a fine tooth comb...

[Rio Wil]

any chance the rear wheel got reassembled and is missing the spacer between the bearings. i have heard bearings with too much side pressure do a click/clunk sound. also is the sound the same loudness whether the wheel is turned slowly or more rapidly?

[John Schmidt]

any chance the rear wheel got reassembled and is missing the spacer between the bearings. i have heard bearings with too much side pressure do a click/clunk sound. also is the sound the same loudness whether the wheel is turned slowly or more rapidly?

No Rio, no parts left over.    One time in the distant past, I did get the front and rear spacers mixed up when I had both wheels off and installed them in the wrong wheel. They are different lengths among other things. That was not a happy day!

[Rio Wil]

I figure it was a long shot, but I think you are of the mature group like me..... , I was on the golf course the other day and the two guys I was playing with insist that on this one particular hole my second shot went in the water......for the life of me that didn't happen!!! So I reckon that I could have a part left over and not remember it for two weeks.  I only have one week left before I remember that water shot....

My friend has invested about 40K into a custom bike that looks like a harley (that's another story) and the clutch he used was a super duty $500  aftermarket thing guaranteed good for like 150 hp. After about 400 miles the clutch started slipping in all gears.....we took it apart and besides having the wrong clutch pack (insufficient fiber disks) the clutch hub had a clicking noise when rotated.  To make a long story shorter, the double row bearing was being squeezed too tight (it had about .003 press fit) , after taking about .0015 out of the hub it pressed in with a better feel and no clicking.

[steve 3054]

Well, hopefully we will  wind up this thread...John  pulled the rear apart to check on the clicking sound this weekend...found the spacer inside the wheel was in contact with both bearings and the bearings were not turning... removed the left bearing, reduced the size of the spacer, ( apparently the chrome wheel had the seats for the bearing cut to deep) put everything back together, rode bike for 35 miles...no clicking...we have everything crossed hoping this solves the mysterious clicking sound...again I wish to thank John!!!   I now have enough knowlege to get myself in trouble!!

[John Schmidt]

Well, hopefully we will  wind up this thread...John  pulled the rear apart to check on the clicking sound this weekend...found the spacer inside the wheel was in contact with both bearings and the bearings were not turning... removed the left bearing, reduced the size of the spacer, ( apparently the chrome wheel had the seats for the bearing cut to deep) put everything back together, rode bike for 35 miles...no clicking...we have everything crossed hoping this solves the mysterious clicking sound...again I wish to thank John!!!   I now have enough knowlege to get myself in trouble!!

The bearing boss area had the appearance of having been rebuilt. When we pulled it apart, to begin with...getting the new left hand bearing out was a bear. Normally you can get the internal spacer to move slightly allowing a punch or similar to catch an inside edge of the bearing. Not so in this case, it was jammed tight against the inside of both bearings and was impossible to turn the bearing with your finger. When I finally got it out(long story) and laid the tire on its right side, I noticed the internal spacer actually protruded past the seat the bearing sits on. Not by much, but was visible as well as being able to feel it. Steve then used my bench grinder and reduced the length just a tiny bit at a time until it felt right when compared to the bearing seat. Not a very scientific approach, but it seems to have worked. Upon closer study, the bearing boss does appear to have been redone, most likely after the wheels were chromed by a prior owner some time ago. The only thing we could come up with is as Steve stated...the seat was cut too deep into the hub, causing the internal spacer to literally be jammed tight against the inside of both bearings when they were in place. This only came to light after torquing(sp?) down the axle nut and riding it a few miles the first time. The bearing I removed the first time was totally burned out which tells me this condition existed before but wasn't addressed.

Here's hoping we have corrected the problem permanently. We both experienced some injuries in the process and I'd just as soon not repeat that part....think I speak for both of us. Still debating about having an x-ray of my left hand(another long story). 

[Ricky-D]

I would never recommend using a bench grinder to adjust a spacer that a bearing is dependent upon.

Not saying there will be difficulty with this particular case but in general practice, using a hand-steady grinding process for this type of application is fraught with peril.

Worse case scenario would be the bearing is not concentric and perpendicular to the axle and the result could be a wallowed out bearing pocket.

***

[John Schmidt]

I would never recommend using a bench grinder to adjust a spacer that a bearing is dependent upon.

Not saying there will be difficulty with this particular case but in general practice, using a hand-steady grinding process for this type of application is fraught with peril.

Worse case scenario would be the bearing is not concentric and perpendicular to the axle and the result could be a wallowed out bearing pocket.

***

I hear you Ricky, remember....this isn't the outer spacer that sits between the bearing and the brake caliper mount. That was cut down on a lathe by Grumpy, one of our vendor supporters. The spacer(Honda calls it a collar) I'm referring to is the internal piece of pipe that fits inside the wheel hub between the two bearings. The grinding done in this case was on a flat surface, not the front of a grinding wheel. Afterward, the surface was checked for square to be sure it was perpendicular to the run of the pipe. Plus....I didn't do it, Steve did. So Steve old buddy, if it screws up the bearing boss my hands are clean. I'll still help you fix it though, just hope we're good on the repairs that were done. 

[Tx Bohemian]

...found the spacer inside the wheel was in contact with both bearings and the bearings were not turning...

Fantastic that ya'll got the clicking noise fixed.

I'm not understanding this.  What would cause the bearings not to turn even if the spacer (I take it is the pipe looking spacer contacting the inner races) was a bit too long?
I mean isn't everything (axle, spacers, etc...) tightened on the inner race the only thing contacting the outer race is the wheel?
Or am I missing something here?

I'm interested cause I had chrome wheels on my '99 and the PO said ever since he chromed them he's had trouble.
I since changed the rear wheel to original but when I changed the front bearings (chrome still) that spacer was extended past the seat and I had a bit of trouble "centering" the wheel, but it always turned free.
Or could this have been the issue that the wheel wasn't centered and hitting something?

[steve 3054]

I will let John or someone else smarter than I about mechnics answer you question...what happened in this case was the "pipe" was sooooo long that it touvhed both bearings and when tightened down did not allow the bearing to turn,  the clicking sound was from the metals chafing against each other...best I can do.  I'm sure we have a engeneer to answer this better...

[gordonv]

Where I'm currently working, I have to replace an inner/outer bearing, and they have a spacer in between the bearings, which are tighten down onto the spacer. The inner races and the spacer all turn together as one unit, with the spacer setting the width between the 2 bearings.

I feel this would be the same with the rear rim, L & R bearings, spaced out by the inner spacer.

I think I will need to remove all the powder coat from the spare rear rim I have, so the bearing pocket will be back to stock dimensions. What I need is some "solvent" to remove the coating.

[Ricky-D]

In a lot of cases the best correction is to add shims to make the distance between the seats for the bearings the same as the length of the spacer.

This is the proper way to set the system for each wheel.

Takes a little knowledge and a good measuring instrument but simple in the concept.

***

[Robert]

All I can say is WOW great article and good detective/diagnostic work. As for the injuries as long as you came away with body parts working and no scratches or dents it was a good job. You will heal the bike needs to be fixed   As for the grinding I have done that with much more critical parts than the axle tube like with valve shims on some of the older imports and even a few new ones. Never had a problem with them and the clearance was perfect. Not saying it would be first choice but sometimes the thickness that you need is not available. I kind of wonder with all the failures of the rear bearings that you may have discovered a real problem. Maybe its not the bearing but the actual axle shaft spacer not being cut right.