pilot screw adjustments

[Dozer]

Okay...I read the book and many threads here about these screws.

What is the consensus...preset them to 2.25 turns with #35 jets and leave them alone or do the full procedure in the book?

If the book procedure is recommended, clarify this for me.
Step 8..Turn #1 carb screw in till engine drops 50 RPM.
Step 9..Turn #1 carb screw out to the final opening from the position obtained in step 8
Step 11 (translated) repeat with remaining cylinders

What exactly do they mean by final opening position...is that one turn or increase of 50 RPM's? What are they wanting me to see??

[Poor Ol Harry]

Dozer......u gave me the courage to remove my carbs & now ur skearing the heck out of me!LOL!

[Dozer]

Dont be askeert Harry...taint nothing but a brain block for me. Happens a lot the older I get!  I think I see what they are getting at but want to be sure. The bike starts, idles and accels fine...much better than before and quicker, but then I havent ridden it yet.

When I pulled these carbs apart the pilot screw adjustments were all over the place. One was 1 turn out, another was 3 out, one was nearly about to fall out and another was nearly turned all the way in. I dont think any of thats normal but we'll see. After tyats done I'll check the sync...sounds like a piece of cake

[cef2lion]

Reading the idle drop pilot adjust in 5-21 of the manual.

Preset all pilots to 2-1/4 or the intial setting for your bike as stated in 5-21 of manual.

Turn pilot out until max RPM reached. Then turn in till slight drop in RPMs. Manual calls for 50RPMs.

From that point turn out pilot one full turn.

Adjust idle and repeat on all pilots.

Manual calls for use of a tach that can accuratelv indicate a 50 rprn change. Not sure what to use here. Manual also says to sync carbs prior.

Most say they just go with the preset of 2-1/4 with good results but doing by the manual might better dial in each carb. Be interesting to see
where each pilot ends up using this procedure compared to just 2-1/4 out from seated.

[Patrick]

It sounds to me as though some one has tried to adjust those little screws before you  bought this monster..
I've mentioned it several times before that I've tried it the ' Honda way ' and have the burnt fingers to prove it.. Most are set at 1.75 originally and just setting them 2.25 works about the best.. The fingers appreciate it as well as anyone within ear shot..

[Dozer]

I found my notes...I set all of the pilots at 2.25. Didnt touch the sync yet but did a mech sync before I installed the bank. Thanks cef2lion. To recap...from 2.25 initial, back out pilots till no more rpms are gained, then out another turn. Is that starting with #1 then proceeding to the next 5? I dont know why I am not comprehending something so danged simple...maybe its the sequence.

I hooked up a "remote" gas tank tonight and ran the motor for 20 min or so. I seem to have something going on here. I plugged the #6 hose and the bike is desmogged. That should eliminate vacuum issues But at idle there is a noticeable intermittent popping coming from the right bank. When it happens I notice the tach drop, then recover. Its pretty loud and annoying. Accel seems great and fore the most part the rpms are steady at a given throttle setting. Other than the mech synh and setting the pilots at 2.25, I have done nothing to adjust anything.

Anyone got some suggestions? Where do I go next and whats causing the popping.

[sugerbear]

i vote for 2 1/4 turns and leave them there. sync and be done. then ride ride ride.

[Dozer]

Hi Patrick....This same procedure was done a little over 18 months ago by the local dealer. They were the only ones to touch the motor since it was new...That was a $1200 job which is why I am doing it now. Its my sons bike and he doesnt ride it much...I am not sure if he knows whats normal for this bike is anymore...and I sure as hell dont!

Yep...I was looking at the pilot screw location, then at the little tool I got from Red Eye, shook my head and thought I need to get some heat proof mechanics gloves for this thing or I'll have burnt fingers as well. Would those pilot screws and/or sync cause that popping you think? I rechecked the plug wires to be sure they werent crossed and when I unplug a plug wire the RPMs drop then come back when I plug the wire back on.

 Its just on the right bank and sounds like its in the muffler just about where the piggies are cut. I am thinking its just one cylinder acting up. The left side sounds okay. Man I dont wanna take this thing apart again but I cant let him have the bike back sounding like that. It sounds worse than worn out lawn mower

[Dozer]

i vote for 2 1/4 turns and leave them there. sync and be done. then ride ride ride.

Okay...looks like 2.25 gets the vote...now tell my what causing the popping on the right bank? PLEASE!

[sugerbear]

vacuum or exhaust leak. check ALL the clamps on the intake tubes (theirs 18)

GENTLY tighten the exhaust bolts (they break easy)

look at the small rubber plugs on the inside of the intake tubes near the base.

that should get you started.

[Dozer]

vacuum or exhaust leak. check ALL the clamps on the intake tubes (theirs 18)

GENTLY tighten the exhaust bolts (they break easy)

look at the small rubber plugs on the inside of the intake tubes near the base.

that should get you started.

The exh nuts were the first thing I checked. Got the torque from the book. I may go with new gaskets on both sides to be sure....these pipes are a PITA to remove and reinstall.. Looked at the rubber plugs on the runners. 4 of them are new from Red Eye with the finger clamps. but the one on #3 looks like a fuel stain where it screws into the runner...maybe a washer leaking...I'll check it out tomorrow

[pocobubba]

Dozer , I just did my carbs , and had a pop sound just like your talking about , it went away while I was syncing the carbs . I put new jets and pilot screws in . One of the pilots did not have a washer and one did not have an o ring . I  have had this bike since new so they had to be that way from the factory . Its been a long drawn out process but she's running great now .

[sugerbear]

vacuum or exhaust leak. check ALL the clamps on the intake tubes (theirs 18)

GENTLY tighten the exhaust bolts (they break easy)

look at the small rubber plugs on the inside of the intake tubes near the base.

that should get you started.

The exh nuts were the first thing I checked. Got the torque from the book. I may go with new gaskets on both sides to be sure....these pipes are a PITA to remove and reinstall.. Looked at the rubber plugs on the runners. 4 of them are new from Red Eye with the finger clamps. but the one on #3 looks like a fuel stain where it screws into the runner...maybe a washer leaking...I'll check it out tomorrow

 

and don't forget the intake clamps. easily overlooked they blend in well.

black clamps around the intake runners. 3 each. they tend to loosen up on their own.

[Dozer]

Sugarbear..I rechecked the clamps.. 12 of them....two per runner upper and lower. They are all tight. I dont have the air box installed yet so the carb inlets are wide open with nothing to block them. I am sure its something I did to cause the popping because it wasnt there before I started. Just not sure what it was I did.

[sugerbear]

check the intake tubes on the back side. sometimes kinda hard to get them seated just right.
they tend to curl up. best to use a mirror to see them.

also.............you missed 6 clamps. their under the choke cover.

don't get discouraged we'll find the problem

did you download/buy the manual? it helps a lot.

[Dozer]

pocobubba ...so your popping issue was after you did the jets and screws and it went away while you were syncing the carbs?

I havent synced the carbs yet. I think I'll pull the runners tonight and recheck the pilot screws on the right bank to be sure I didnt miss a washer or o ring but I am fairly certain didnt...and I'll readjust the screws to 2.25 turns to be sure they are where they are supposed to be....then try to sync the carbs I guess and see what happens

[Dozer]

check the intake tubes on the back side. sometimes kinda hard to get them seated just right.
they tend to curl up. best to use a mirror to see them.

also.............you missed 6 clamps. their under the choke cover.

don't get discouraged we'll find the problem

did you download/buy the manual? it helps a lot.

Oh yeah! Downloaded the manual long ago. I wont even go to the bathroom with out a manual!  As I mentioned, the air cleaner housing isnt installed so that eliminates 6 clamps. The other 12 on the "insulators" (2 per insulator) are tight, notches are aligned and the hole in the clamp is on the pin on the insulator...but I will recheck all that again tonight when I get home. I need to get some plastic T's for the vacuum lines and gauge. I am gonna use patricks method to sync the carbs. Thanks for your continues suggestions. I appreciate it

[Ricky-D]

It would be good to check the air cut valve hoses for leaks.

You could use a stethoscope to listen for a leak at each carburetor on that side where you say the problem is occurring.

***

[Dozer]

It would be good to check the air cut valve hoses for leaks.

You could use a stethoscope to listen for a leak at each carburetor on that side where you say the problem is occurring.

***

Stethoscope eh? Looks like I'll be going to HB again! I kinda wondered about those cut off valves when it started popping. I checked them with a hand vacuum pump (harbor freight) and they all read 17" before they closed. I think the book says 15" but my gauge is off by 2". At least they were all consistant. I installed Red Eyes O rings and new vacuum tubes on the ACO valves

[sugerbear]

sorry didn't read that the air box was off......maybe THAT's it.

[Dozer]

sorry didn't read that the air box was off......maybe THAT's it.

Ya think? I didnt consider that.

Last night I  pulled the intake runners off of the right side and rechecked the O rings. They were good and in place. Next I vacuum checked each threaded nipple on the runners. They were good...no leaks. Then I pulled the pilot screws out and checked the needles, washers and orings. They were all good. I reinstalled the pilot screws and turned them in till they lightly bottomed out them backed out 2.25 turns.
Then I reinstalled the runners making sure the orings stayed in place, then torqued them evenly. I aligned the notches and seated the clamps on the insulators then tightened each clamp tight.

Now I know the O rings are okay, insulators are installed properly, the clamps are tight and the Pilot screws are all at initial settings. I pulled all of the vacuum caps from the runners and installed vacuum tubing so I can attempt a sync tonight. Before I do I'll check the ACO valves for leaks with the s-scope. If none of that works I dont know where to go next. I looked at the plugs too. They were wet...like a rich mixture..all 6 looked that way. I did not install new plugs but I did clean them. Maybe a sync job will cure it.

[amazngrace]

I haven't had the air box off the Valk yet, but on the 1000 Concours,
when run with the airbox out, it pops and farts alot.

..ED

[Dozer]

I haven't had the air box off the Valk yet, but on the 1000 Concours,
when run with the airbox out, it pops and farts alot.

..ED

Thats somewhat of a comfort to me!  I'll be finding out soon one way or another

[Dozer]

Okay! Progress report...there was some! I hooked up my single vacuum gauge and went through the sync process hooking and unhooking tubes and blocking off the unused ones. It can be a chore! I will eventually do something better and easier to fix that situation. The popping is pretty much gone, just an ocassional poof. Hpoe thats the air box. It has a pretty smooth idle & good accel.
However, I had some problem with the vacuum tubing I was using. It was clear tygon but it was thin wall. After a few minutes of heat it started to collapse. But even at that the gauge needle was bouncing too much to read so I still had to pinch down the rubber hose at the gauge.

I had the motor warmed up & idleing at 1000 RPM on the bikes tach & with my big shop fan blowing air on the radiator and also clearing the shop of exh fumes. #3 cyl read 8-9", #1 read 20 and #3 read 5. So I bounced back and forth between the cylinders on the right bank till I got them reading (swaying) between 8" & 10". Then jumped to the left side. They were much closer but were reading a little lower. After tweeking all 6, they looked pretty close to me (8"-9") but I dont know if thats close enough. Tomorrow, or as time permits, I'll buy some decent vacuum hose that wont collapse and recheck the sync. I still need to get a s-scope and listen to the ACO valves...didnt have a chance to get one today.

I also noticed that the popping didnt start till the motor was nice and warm. After I get the brakes and air box back on I'll go for a ride and see what happens, but that may not be till this weekend. I'll keep y'all posted. I still have a ton of work to do to this thing yet. I have a feeling I may need more help...so thanks for what y'all have given me so far. I really appreciate it.

[sugerbear]

some guys are using fish tank air valves to stop the bounce.

a heavy sidewall vacuum tube works MUCH better.

need to replace mine too.

[Patrick]

OK, simple.. You need to use good vacuum line though, not that clear stuff..
If the vacuum gauge doesn't have a snubber/damper screw then make your own.. A little in-line valve will do as will a pair of forceps.. Squeeze the line near the gauge [so you'll only need the one] until the needle just settles down to a very slight shake..
I mark and run all the lines to the rear of the bike with a 'T' in #3.. Another pair of forceps is used to pinch off the line you're not reading.. Just make sure you're reading one cylinder at a time.. Plug the ends of the open lines [golf tee's work].. You'll be able to get all the cylinders within a needle width which is about .5 in/hg and Hondas spec is 1.5 in/hg.. This should only have to be done a couple times [maybe] within the life of the bike.. This actually took longer to write than to do the job.. Its easy once you've done it and become used to it.. Just don't adjust if the fan is running and 'blip' the throttle between adjustments and I think you'll be happy with the results.. If the adjustments are really off you may have to reset the idle speed during this, just try to keep the idle speed pretty constant throughout this..

[Dozer]

some guys are using fish tank air valves to stop the bounce.

a heavy sidewall vacuum tube works MUCH better.

need to replace mine too.

I stopped by O Rielly auto parts this morning on the way to work. They had 5/32 bulk, thick wall rubber vacuum hose for $.49 a foot. Their PN is GAT 27042 if you wanna try that size.  I picked up 12 feet to redo the sync. I read about guys using fish tank valves. I guess the brass ones work better than the plastic ones

[Dozer]

Patrick...thanks for the overview. I have decent tubing now so I'll try it again. I used my forceps to dampen the bouncing but it was hard to adjust. I have two...one straight and one curved. I either had it pinched too tight or too loose. I could have used more locking teeth on the forceps to get better locking adjustments...but then thats not what they were designed for were they...LOL

I was using screws to plug the hose's I wasnt reading...and they got pretty hot too! I dont know where Id get golf Tee's around me...maybe a sporting goods store? I think I'll run by Pet Smart this evening and see if I can find a valve that I can use on the gauge. I dont know what size tubing will fit on those valves. Hopefully my 5/32 will work fine.

Have you ever noticed slight popping with the air bix and filter off off the bike?

[PharmBoy]

Those carb sync tools are easy to make and not very expensive.  Here is one that I made about 3-4 years ago from fish tank valves and other fittings from a good hardware store.  A gang of 5 valves was the only one available at the time.  I'd rig up 6 valves if I were going to do it over.  Also, the the clear tubing was almost immediately replaced with more substantial rubber tubing.  Overall, it has worked great on several local bikes and a few more at Stude 31's wrench party last year.  I'm working on my new bumble bee in the shop now and waiting on the carb 0-ring kit, so I'll be using this thing again soon...Jim

[BlueValk]

I used my forceps to dampen the bouncing but it was hard to adjust. I have two...one straight and one curved. I either had it pinched too tight or too loose. I could have used more locking teeth on the forceps to get better locking adjustments...but then thats not what they were designed for were they...LOL

Have you ever noticed slight popping with the air bix and filter off off the bike?

Hey Dozer,

Try putting the hose behind the hinge of the forceps, in the handle area for a better choice of dampening.  That's how I do mine when I need it.

BlueValk

[pocobubba]

Hey Dozer , I used a pair or mini needle nose Vise Grips , once you pinch the hose you can adjust the Vice Grips to your satisfaction . I had 2 gauges that read the same , I hooked 1 on #3 and left it there then did each carb with the other one while keeping an eye on the idle . I did it yesterday then added some Techron and let it idle quite awhile , took it for a ride this AM then did them again , its running great , It requires one big thing most of us don't have "PATIENCE" . Good Luck , Pocobubba

[Dozer]

I used my forceps to dampen the bouncing but it was hard to adjust. I have two...one straight and one curved. I either had it pinched too tight or too loose. I could have used more locking teeth on the forceps to get better locking adjustments...but then thats not what they were designed for were they...LOL

Have you ever noticed slight popping with the air bix and filter off off the bike?

Hey Dozer,

Try putting the hose behind the hinge of the forceps, in the handle area for a better choice of dampening.  That's how I do mine when I need it.

BlueValk

Thats a great idea! I'll give it a try. Thanks for the idea

[Dozer]

Hey Dozer , I used a pair or mini needle nose Vise Grips , once you pinch the hose you can adjust the Vice Grips to your satisfaction . I had 2 gauges that read the same , I hooked 1 on #3 and left it there then did each carb with the other one while keeping an eye on the idle . I did it yesterday then added some Techron and let it idle quite awhile , took it for a ride this AM then did them again , its running great , It requires one big thing most of us don't have "PATIENCE" . Good Luck , Pocobubba

Two gauges would be good...if I had two that read the same. I actually have 3 and none of them read the same...so I just use the biggest one thats easy to read. I had to back off of the porject due to work but I am back on on now....hope to eventually get it resynced maybe tomorrow. Man its been so hot here...third day at 100 or more...ughh. Texas summers are a bitch! Calling for 106 in Dallas tomorrow.....

[Dozer]

Those carb sync tools are easy to make and not very expensive.  Here is one that I made about 3-4 years ago from fish tank valves and other fittings from a good hardware store.  A gang of 5 valves was the only one available at the time.  I'd rig up 6 valves if I were going to do it over.  Also, the the clear tubing was almost immediately replaced with more substantial rubber tubing.  Overall, it has worked great on several local bikes and a few more at Stude 31's wrench party last year.  I'm working on my new bumble bee in the shop now and waiting on the carb 0-ring kit, so I'll be using this thing again soon...Jim

Thats a slick rig! I was gonna do something like that. I went to Petco (no pet smart here) to get some fish tank valves and the kid there didnt know what I was talking about. Got the manager and he said he never heard of them...back to square one. I am getting things back together and got good tubing. I am gonna put the tank back on to do the sync. Then I just discovered that theres a seal missing from the aircleaner box . There are 2 and one is missing. Probably the last dealer that worked on it left it out. Of course the local dealer didnt have on in stock and said it would be 3-5 days to get one. Think I'll call HLD in the morning. I need some real wheel O rings anyway. I dont want to put the tank back on till I get that seal. If it aint one thing, its another! LOL

[cef2lion]

I just found a 7 way fish tank manifold on ebay with free shipping for just under $12. I selected US only when searching. Figured it was quicker then running around town for something I most likely wouldn't find.

Thanks PharmBoy for the idea! Been looking to put something together and wanted to stay with one gauge.

[Dozer]

I just found a 7 way fish tank manifold on ebay with free shipping for just under $12. I selected US only when searching. Figured it was quicker then running around town for something I most likely wouldn't find.

Thanks PharmBoy for the idea! Been looking to put something together and wanted to stay with one gauge.

You're right. Id spend that in gas driving around looking for them not to mention the aggravation. 7 way valve eh? $12.00 too? Thats a great deal! Whatever ya need ya can find it on the internet...have you recieved it yet?

[cef2lion]

It shipped today. I need to pickup some vacumn line. I have a good gauge. Have to see how much the gauge bounces while doing the sync if so I will see if the manifold valve can be adjusted to reduce gauge bounce.

[Dozer]

It shipped today. I need to pickup some vacumn line. I have a good gauge. Have to see how much the gauge bounces while doing the sync if so I will see if the manifold valve can be adjusted to reduce gauge bounce.

My guess is it will bounce like a super ball but those valves will smooth it out like butter. For the time being I'll muddle along with one gauge, some hose and golf Tee's. I just wanna get this thing done and done....