Prediction? HydroLock with R&M Works Belly Tank pump problem

[OldOneEye]

I installed the belly tank this winter and have enjoyed it for 3000+ miles already, its awesome to have a 200+ mile range
But this morning on the way to work my bike died…. The odometer said 180 so I should have fuel… I opened up the reserve, no luck. I got off and gave the bike a look and listen over, it was missing the tick … tick… of the fuel pump working. So off comes the seat and side panel I check the wiring, as I hot wire the pump I do hear a short whoosh but then nothing, maybe something worked its way into the pump but it seems to be dead.
….  so I walked the rest of the way to work.
A coworker then gave me ride back to the bike and I tried starting it, it fired up….!!! But was showing starvation on the way down to the stop light were it died, a gas station was over the next hill so I timed the last start – run so I got over the hill, and glided into the gas station. Thinking that I must have been wrong with the 180 miles or something I filled it up. 5.5gal was it… that’s wrong, 8 gal is what I squeeze into her when she is dry so only the top tank was empty. I fired her up and she runs…I got her to work but still no tick.. tick..
So I believe that the pressure of the gas in the top tank is feeding the carbs but when the top tanks runs dry the carbs will have no gas coming.
The danger is that the fuel is NOT shut off, no petcock to stop the fuel… I will start her again in 4hours end of work day and get home to see if I can get another pump. Pray that I don’t hydro lock.
The search gave me this info on the pump.. “Facet number is 40178” so I hope napa will have it.

Anyone have any input…

[X Ring]

These pumps do wear out.  Mine did.  I could ride for a few minutes then it would act like it was starving for fuel.  I also didn't have a tick from the pump.  I discovered it was working but barely.  I could ride at 35 mph or so but no faster without fuel starvation happening.

Call R&M.  Since you've had the belly tank for a few months, Roger might give you a new pump.  He adds a heat sink to the pump.  If you get one on your own and it doesn't have the heat sink, you will have the heat off the exhaust soak the pump when you stop for gas, it won't work until it cools off.  Of course, you won't find out until you're a few miles down the road.  You can speed the cooling along by pouring water over it.

Marty

[OldOneEye]

I did send him am email, so hopefully he can get me a replacement. Still 3 hr till I get off work to see If I can find a replacement on my own.

[X Ring]

I had a helluva time finding one when mine went out.  Only one shop 60 miles away could get me one and it took a week.  That's how I ended up finding out about Roger's modification.  Fastest way to get hold of them is to call Roger.

Marty

[Patrick]

I've never seen a belly tank,, had to say that.. But, liquid will seek its own level.. So why can't a belly tanked bike fuel-lock.. Seems like it can unless there is a valve somewhere to shut off the fuel..

[hubcapsc]

I've never seen a belly tank,, had to say that.. But, liquid will seek its own level.. So why can't a belly tanked bike fuel-lock.. Seems like it can unless there is a valve somewhere to shut off the fuel..

The OP thinks fuel was flowing from head-pressure when the tank was full, so I guess it
could fuel-lock. After the tank goes empty, the gravity-valve kicks in to stop the flow

-Mike

[OldOneEye]

I did call Roger,
Roger said the way the petcock is modified makes it a manual switch, I have set it for center=OFF. I should have no problems with hydrolock

he has never had "my version" of a pump problem, he gave me some instructions to try taking apart the bottom part of the pump/filter tonight and trying to see if the pin is fouled or something else.

I have a 25mile commute home so with a full tank "gravity" feed? I should make it home.

to answer Patrick's question, from what I understand is that if the pump is off no fuel is to flow at all, therefore never hydrolock.

[X Ring]

I did call Roger,
Roger said the way the petcock is modified makes it a manual switch, I have set it for center=OFF. I should have no problems with hydrolock

he has never had "my version" of a pump problem, he gave me some instructions to try taking apart the bottom part of the pump/filter tonight and trying to see if the pin is fouled or something else.

I have a 25mile commute home so with a full tank "gravity" feed? I should make it home.

to answer Patrick's question, from what I understand is that if the pump is off no fuel is to flow at all, therefore never hydrolock.

I think you misunderstood what Roger said.  When you do the mod to the petcock it becomes the vent line for the belly tank so it doesn't have a vacuum lock.  It still retains the reserve function though.

Marty

[etiwandablues]

You can always bypass the belly tank and fuel pump by disconnecting the line to the carburetors at the inline filter that Roger installs and connecting it to petcock. This isn't too hard to do if you have problems on the road. Just need to remember to shut the petcock after riding or you can hydrolock.

I had a similar 'failure' last year while on the road. My fuel pump quit and I coasted into Buffalo WY dead. It happened right after I came through a heavy rainstorm. I emailed or texted Roger that night from Buffalo and got a response back right away. He walked me through the the bypass but first thing next morning the pump and bike were fine and have been ever since. Been through lots of rain before and after that without any problems so I'm not sure what caused the pump to quit.

I don't worry about carrying a spare pump, just made sure I can do the bypass if I need to. Roger was super helpful and prompt.

[Chillerman]

From Roger's website http://www.rmworksinc.com/FAQpage-belly-tank.html the carbs are fed by the belly tank only. You can't hydrolock because the tank is below the swingarm. The main tank feeds directly into the belly tank.

[Robert]

Hydro lock is not possible with the belly tank the fuel goes from the top tank to the belly tank, then from the pump to the carbs, petcock line is a vent line. The fuel pump has 2 valves in it one is a anti drain back the other stops the fuel from going through the pump unless its on.  This is why it cannot hydro lock. The pump is really basic mine died and I would hit it a few times and it would work for awhile then dies. Get the oem one from Roger the pumps look the same at some after market places but it does not have the valves at least the one that stops hydrolock.But that is why even with both tanks full to the top you don't have to worry.  I had to compare the pumps and the part number is on the front of the pump went to Facet who makes the pump and didnt find the part number thats why its easier to go to Roger. Even in the stores the pumps have the same pressure but they dont have the valves and are cheaper. Roger sells them for a good price though so it pays to go through him. The pump is a coil of wire a slug with the center drilled out a one way valve mounted in it and 2 more valves all in a copper cylinder. Circuit board is basic and that's about it.

[bentwrench]

I have about 25k on my tank install.the original pump did give me a little trouble but r+m shipped a new one right out.if these pumps stick some times it's possible to get them going by tapping on them while they are powered up.

[OldOneEye]

Verdict: bad pump.
Roger was awesome, my pump may have got something stuck in it or is just bad. I made it home 25mi ride. when I puled up I killed the engine and I heard a purr from the pump (not normal), it was hot from the ride. I gave it about 2hr then I called roger and let him hear it, it clicked .. clicked then stumbled (paused) and then click ... click.. and stumbled like the filter in the intake was plugged.
While on the phone with roger we examined the parts to determine that nothing looked odd and a blow on the filter seemed to be free flowing
I got replacements from napa for all filters and the pump (got a long ride this weekend) so all is new now.

I was wrong about the flow of fuel, its true that it free flows from top tank to lower and then to pump, and the petcock does nothing but reserve function, unless you bypass the lower tank buy redoing hoses in an emergency then the off function works.

Here are some pics:
Pump dissembled


My oil sucker pump that I used to remove the gas from the whole system. first top tank and then lower by disconnecting the post pump fuel line and stick my oil sucker in it and turn both on. all 8gal came out easy.