Purely academic - Running with air box removed

[Alien]

I've read numerous posts here about how poorly the Valkyrie engine runs with the air box removed.  The consensus seems to be that removing the restrictive air box results in too much air flow leading to an excessively lean condition.

If you were able to increase fuel flow enough to bring the mixture back where it needs to be with different jets, different carbs, dial-a-jets, fuel injection etc.., wouldn't the result be a tremendous gain in power? (and a corresponding tremendous loss of MPG)

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but it seems, from what I've read, that the engine wants to flow more air than it's being allowed to.

Again, this is purely academic, I'm very satisfied with the way my bike runs as is.  Just curious what others think.

Ride Safe,

Scott

[BonS]

I recently posted this:

"A friends Valkyrie had an air box boot that had a single air leak on one carburetor. That cylinder ran blubbering rich; Yup, rich. The bike backfired and that cylinder would wet foul and the bike often only ran on 5 cylinders. He brought it over and we found the boot that had hung up on the backside and corrected it. It was cylinder #4 and the bike had a smog system that wasn't working right as well. Based upon that experience I know it's possible that a possible outcome of a leaking boot is also a rich condition."

Once the boot was refitted the cylinder ran in the mixture normal range. I wouldn't draw any conclusions about running lean until I saw a plug that showed that condition when compared to the others in the same engine or had an O2 sensor that sniffed a single exhaust header.

[Ricky-D]

If there is a way to get more air/fuel to the motor and not simply end up pumping it out the exhaust, there should necessarily be an increase in horsepower.  More fuel=more horsepower.

The trick is to be able to burn the mixture efficiently.

Here in this regard, the "law of diminishing returns" will certainly apply.

Do you think Honda never investigated this?

Honda was one of the first and original factory sponsors of racing development. As an example I refer you to the 250cc six cylinder racing motor they developed.

Honda was and still is a leader in motor development and application.

***

[Daniel Meyer]

We have solid lifters and aggressive cam timing. This results in a significant intake pulse. The airbox scavenges these to increase airflow. Honda is rather famous for that kind of engineering.

The exhaust system too is very good at scavenging the output from one cylinder to help pull gasses out of the others, which is why you have to have a carefully designed system to get any better than stock.

[Ricky-D]

No valve lifters in the Valkyrie motor, solid or otherwise.

Rocker arms yes, valve lifters - no.

***

[Blackduck]

Short answer, yes you do get a gain in horsepower and no loss of economy.
But on a standard engine it is a lot of work to gain maybe 10 HP.
I have had several runs on a dyno to get mine to run correctly.
Cheers Steve

[Pete]

The intake and the exhaust are complimentary systems and if you are interested in improving performance you really should look at both, make improvements to both, and seek to balance  the changes made to both.

Good luck.

[98valk]

see my mods

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,8248.0.html

one dyno run 100HP
at inzane II dyno 98HP  was higher ambient temp and I was trying a larger main jet at the time.

both runs with glass pack exhaust

[Daniel Meyer]

No valve lifters in the Valkyrie motor, solid or otherwise.

Rocker arms yes, valve lifters - no.

***

Yeah, yeah, okay. "non hydraulic" or solid valve train...no buffering.

[Rio Wil]

Ya know, along the lines of carbs, cams, fuel flow, etc, I don't understand why these bikes are not faster than the standard 1500 cc GoldWing.  The GW only has two carbs vs our six, so if we are no faster with twice the number of carbs and more aggressive cams, perhaps the  intake system is mnot the place to look for hp, unless you supercharge , etc.


 

[Daniel Meyer]

I can stomp 1500 Goldwings all day long. Off the line, high end, braking, and handling.

The 1800, well now, that's another story. 

[Pete]

The real key to more power on the Valk, may  be RPM.

The Valk engine is essentially a 1000 cc Goldwing engine with 2 additional cylinders.

The original 1000 cc Goldwing engine had a considerablely high RPM limit and produced more horsepower per cc at that higher RPM than the Valk does at its RPM limit.

The 1000 cc Goldwing engine had better breathing and exhaust capabilities than the current 1500 cc Valk.

It appears to me that the Valk with the same RPM, breathing, and exhaust capabilities as the 1000 cc engine should produce 120 to 140 horsepower.

[Bob E.]

Ya know, along the lines of carbs, cams, fuel flow, etc, I don't understand why these bikes are not faster than the standard 1500 cc GoldWing.  The GW only has two carbs vs our six, so if we are no faster with twice the number of carbs and more aggressive cams, perhaps the  intake system is mnot the place to look for hp, unless you supercharge , etc.


 

I have both...well, actually the wing is my dad's but I ride it about as much as he does...and the Valk is definitely faster.  And dad knows it...lol!

[Alien]

I can stomp 1500 Goldwings all day long. Off the line, high end, braking, and handling.

The 1800, well now, that's another story. 

Me vs. my ex boss.  I'm on the Valk he's on a 2010 Wing.  I took him 3 out of 3 from a rolling start.  My prize was 3 days off with pay.

valkrace	powered by Aeva

[shooter64]

In youtube videos of 1800 GW's, they are posting et's of high 13's to low 14's. Valkyries are doing mid to high 12's. Is the 1800 GW really faster in the 1/4 mile or only in top speed?

[Alien]

I'm nnot sure about top speed but in a stoplight race the valk walks away from the wing as seen in the above video.

[KW]

My experience is racing the 1500 Goldwing is a cakewalk. Sorry to any Goldwingers. Nice bike, but it is what it is. There’s just no comparison. I've ridden with more than a few and it's not even close. Off the line I start seeing them in the side mirror from the jump and they only get smaller. . . The 1800 is close. Frankly; I’ve been smoked by a couple and have beaten a few. My ‘guess’ would be the 1800 – riders being equal – will more times than not take our Valk in a fair, straight line race. Twisteis? The better rider will win.