Health care system.... pffft!

[fiddle mike]

Recently, my son, not being able to afford health insurance, went to a local emergency room to be treated for a staph infection in his knee.  In the emergency room there is a sign, in English and Spanish saying they will "work with you" if you don't have insurance or money.
Son just got handed a bill for over $2,000 USD, discounted from over$4,000. He's a student and Navy Reservist

Now, I know some of you are afraid the Obamists are going of fukup our health care system, and maybe that means your friends or relatives in medicine will have a harder time paying for their Porches or second vacation homes, but I'm having a hard time dredging up any sympathy. In fact, long before anyone ever heard of the Black Moses, I figured medicos ought to be doing two years public service as part of their licensing requirement.  Since a ton of them don't even bother to pay back student loans spent at publicly funded med schools,  I reckon that won't happen.

[Scanner]

Sorry to hear about your sons highside with our "health care" system - Only in America.  We spend more on the military / industrial complex than the rest of the world combined, but we can't provide health care for our citizens, unlike most third world countries.  As long as our health care system is profit-based, the people don't stand a chance.

[fudgie]

Yea its not the best. My 'Health Care System' where I work has good insurance. I was admitted once and had a bill already by the time I got home.  I went 'out of network' for a er visit due to them having a plastics guy and it took over 2 months for me to get a bill. I paid the $100 bill and still got a overpayment of $50 the other day. sweet! Kit pays $100 a pay for crap insurance. Darn near half her check goes to the insurance.
Medicad is a croc. At least around here. Way to many abusers. Esp with a chic that has 5 kids by the time she's 20. Don't breed'm if you can't feed'm. We get people that just need a ride. It should be used for people that need it and earned it. People that are laid off and such. I think we only get like $30 from medicad for a ambulance run. The other $600 we eat. Or at least the tax payers pay.....
Medicare does well around here tho. alot of people need it and use it. For the past few years we have to advise people that medicare may not pay for our ambulance bill since its not a 'emergency'. They might get stuck with the bill. Medicare is what is making County owned EMS services go under. They set the rates on what we charge to insurance companies.

[fudgie]

Recently, my son, not being able to afford health insurance, went to a local emergency room to be treated for a staph infection in his knee.  In the emergency room there is a sign, in English and Spanish saying they will "work with you" if you don't have insurance or money.
Son just got handed a bill for over $2,000 USD, discounted from over$4,000. He's a student and Navy Reservist

Now, I know some of you are afraid the Obamists are going of fukup our health care system, and maybe that means your friends or relatives in medicine will have a harder time paying for their Porches or second vacation homes, but I'm having a hard time dredging up any sympathy. In fact, long before anyone ever heard of the Black Moses, I figured medicos ought to be doing two years public service as part of their licensing requirement.  Since a ton of them don't even bother to pay back student loans spent at publicly funded med schools,  I reckon that won't happen.

Seems kinda backwards. You go about and do the right things and you get the shaft. You come cross the boarder illeagally and get better benefits.......

[Wizzard]

I know a secret to getting fast service in the ER
Just put on your old army fatigues and put this patch on your shoulder, the ER will clear out fast

[Scanner]

I have very good insurance also - thank God. My wife just finished her chemo for breast cancer.

But whenever I get a bill, there's always the "submitted" amount, and the much lower insurance "approved" amount. If I didn't have the insurance I'd be paying the submitted amount

Like everything, it's completely bass - akward.  If you don't need the money then you pay less and if you can't afford it you owe more.

People rant about how in countries with free, or near free healthcare it is allocated by the government. Here, health care is allocated by the insurance companies whose only goal is to make a profit.  If they can deny or withhold the more expensive, and possibly more effective treatment, they make more money. End of story.

[Wizzard]

well,, I know most Canadians sure are not happy with their system either

[Lyn-Del]

I'm lucky, my doctor discounts to me because I'm uninsured. 

[Scanner]

I live near the Canadian border. Busloads of Americans going there for less expensive prescription drugs.  Busloads of Americans going to Mexico for Dental and vision care....

[Serk]

...and Busloads of Canadians coming south for better medical care...

I know when we lived in the UK my family scrimped and saved so we could go to a private doctor instead of the socialist one the government provided, they were horrible, and you had to wait for ever for anything...

Yeah, our health care system stinks right now, but I REALLY don't want my doctor brought to me by the same people that brought us the DMV either!

[Oss]

which was a bargain because my daughter's embrel (the stuff that gave her lymphoma) cost well over a grand each shot.

 

Property taxes on our little 1/4 acre are now more than that as well

Lets add the 15% I have to pay Uncle S. social security cause I am self employed, the layers of taxes for nyc and nys. nine kinds of other insurance paying for 2 kids in college and one could say that by october I am finally gettin money in my pocket

Yes Fiddle the system could use some improvement but I am just glad I am able to work and provide for my family.  If our rich uncle has his hands in my pocket what can I do anyways.

Glad your son is ok now

[Robert]

First unfortunately your son shouldn't have gone to the emergency room for the reason you found out. The price is outrageous and they really don't do anything more than a doctors office either. The second choice is a urgent care offices cheaper actually affordable but you have to watch the doctor because they don't have the best. The good old GP would have been the best. You would have paid for a office visit 60 to 100 and medicine thats probably it. Staff is a nasty thing too usually takes mega doses of anti biotic to get rid of hope hes doing better. the second thing I wanted to say was its not only the doctors that cause this. The hospitals are just as much as fault as the doctors for overcharging or duplicate charges. I was looking at a summary from a doctor for what he did not only once but multiple times he had to do the same surgery he got paid every time by wording the same operation differently. If I work on a car and the customer comes back and the same thing is wrong I don't get paid so why should he. My stepfather was a doctor and a good one. He was one of those doctors that actually cared and could diagnose without all the expense. He had to quit because his malpractice insurance was through the roof like to the tune of 30 to 40 grand a year for a gp. Interns, surgeons and alike pay in the upwards of 100k or more a year. Next the hospitals the double billing and over billing that goes on is unreal. Insurance company's question the procedure done but not any other charges that are incurred so what ever bill is submitted by the hospital they pay. Some times the medicine in the operation room is not administered and yet we pay for it. Ask the hospital that since you paid for it and never got it you want it now and see what they say. I am not saying that the doctors are not greedy but its not only them the system is broken and if fair prices and no over billing was done I could imagine that health care costs would drop dramatically. Lets enact some laws were they really count in the health care system.  I know the hospital already discounted the bill but if you tell them you just don't have the money and let the notices pile up they should cut the cost further. Let me also say that I have health insurance and it keeps going up although I haven't made one claim. So I called them up and ask why, the real reason was I was paying for others who were sick or in my group even though it is only me and my wife no others in my group. So I cannot get the discount for group insurance but I pay for others in a group, yea right. If I had done some of the things that the doctors, Hospitals or insurance company's do I would be in jail. Health care reform is really very easy just mandate pricing for procedures make new laws about double billing and charging for things you don't get restrict the amount of markup on medication then cap dr liability insurance suits from lawyers and throw in for good measure all immigrants have to have health insurance that is government subsidized.  

[fiddle mike]

Sorry to hear about your sons highside with our "health care" system - Only in America.  We spend more on the military / industrial complex than the rest of the world combined, but we can't provide health care for our citizens, unlike most third world countries.  As long as our health care system is profit-based, the people don't stand a chance.

I have a friend from Turkey who remarks on the  problem of government corruption, there.  Still, Turks are guaranteed health care and college (provided they can test in).
I see taxes and fees doubling but we can't even get our streets repaired. Sounds like their corrupt politicians are pikers, compared to ours.

Some years back, I accompanied a friend to Reynosa, MX, to get heart medicine for her dog, at the Rexall, there.   It was about seven dollars a pop, compared to the fifty her vet wanted.  The medicine is used to treat human heart patients, too. I'm sure the price hasn't dropped.

Robert, I believe the kid went in on a wknd when the clinics were closed.  His knee was looking bad, by then.
 

[ArmyValker]

I'm split on this "universal" healthcare idea.

I'm a benefactor of government-funded health care right now. 100% paid for by Uncle Sam. That being said, It takes 14 hours (at least) to be seen by a Dr. in our emergency room, MONTHS to get an appointment if your Active Duty, Longer if your spouse or children need to be seen. Our base hospital serves 18,000 people, and is short 24 doctors. Active duty soldiers routinely have to drive 1-5 hours to receive medical care in a timely manner or to have their children seen by a doctor.

This is a small scale example of government run medical care. Bottom line is, I know people in the military (E1-E5) who pay for their own medical care because the government provided care is so poor.

The government can't pay medical professionals enough to work in government facilities and have to deal with the red tape and workload that they are required to deal with.

Just my .2 cents... I'm privately hoping universal health care does not pass because I'd really rather pay for good medical care than deal with the level care I've seen this far.

[Wizzard]

I'm split on this "universal" healthcare idea.

I'm a benefactor of government-funded health care right now. 100% paid for by Uncle Sam. That being said, It takes 14 hours (at least) to be seen by a Dr. in our emergency room, MONTHS to get an appointment if your Active Duty, Longer if your spouse or children need to be seen. Our base hospital serves 18,000 people, and is short 24 doctors. Active duty soldiers routinely have to drive 1-5 hours to receive medical care in a timely manner or to have their children seen by a doctor.

This is a small scale example of government run medical care. Bottom line is, I know people in the military (E1-E5) who pay for their own medical care because the government provided care is so poor.

The government can't pay medical professionals enough to work in government facilities and have to deal with the red tape and workload that they are required to deal with.

Just my .2 cents... I'm privately hoping universal health care does not pass because I'd really rather pay for good medical care than deal with the level care I've seen this far.

That is exactly what I have heard from my Canadian friends. They have to wait forever and then its not that great. Sometimes they end up going to the USA so they can get it done now and just pay.

[fiddle mike]

I'm split on this "universal" healthcare idea.

... I'm privately hoping universal health care does not pass because I'd really rather pay for good medical care than deal with the level care I've seen this far.

That would still leave a lot of us paying a curandera to  pack staph infections with tobacco.  For the kind of taxes Americans pay we deserve a good health care program.  Requiring Federal officials to get their care at the same office I do might make a difference, but I haven't read of anyone from any party willing tol lead by example. 

[sugerbear]

my wife and i both work in healthcare. we dont have a porsche or vacation home. we also have crappy insurance.
but i know someone that puts hog rings on seats for GM. they have a caddy and a vacation home. does that count?
they also have excellent insurance. and get paid 95% when laid off!!
 ???

[PharmBoy]

Does anyone here want to know why our health care system is so expensive?  I have been in it for about as long as anyone that is still active and I can sum it up to you in two words because I have been here to see it go down the tubes.  Those two words are "Insurance" and "Lawyers".  When I graduated from college, the average price of a prescription was $3.25 (cash price-there was no insurance involvement at all).  Then along came Blue Cross and offered the chain drug stores $3.00 + Wholesale price of the drug which didn't take into account the 30 day payment discount and immediate payment discounts.  The chains were delighted!  Today, they are still getting $3.00 per prescription + or - a little depending on which insurance company is paying the bill, even though the actual cost of the medication to the store may be in the hundreds of dollars.  What the average person does not understand is that the insurance companies control the medical community with an iron fist.  They tell your Doctor how much they will pay for your office visit and how much he can charge you for your co-pay for that visit.  They tell him which medications that they will pay for and which ones that they will not pay for without regard as to which one you actually need for your medical problem.  Many times this severely limits a superb doctor in his ability to prescribe the best medications.  Insurance companies also set the extravagant premiums which that doctor must pay to protect himself from malpractice lawsuits.  As for you the patient, your insurance company tells you what your premium will be, what your co-pay will be both at the doctor's office and at the pharmacy.  Neither the doctor or the pharmacist has any say in what you are paying.  Your insurance company is in control.  They tell your pharmacist how much they will pay him for the medication that he puts into that little brown bottle for you (usually wholesale less 15-18%).  Then they will pay a dispensing fee of $1.75 - $4.50 depending on the company and the contract.  Insurance companies now say, "Here is the contract, take it or leave it!"  Also, the bottles, labels, paper sacks, receipts, & labor comes out of that dispensing fee. 

The high cost of drugs are partly the result of insurance companies involvement in medicine.  The drug companies reasoned that the insurance companies were going to pay for the medications anyway, so why not raise their prices.  Also, twenty years ago it cost the drug companies an average of $300 million to get a new drug approved by the food and drug administration (FDA) and that approval to put it on the market did not mean that it would make a penny.  I have no idea what it cost today.  Many more new drugs fall by the wayside than actually gain popularity with doctors and patients and become a profitable proposition.  Drug prices are also driven sky high by the threat of lawsuits by unscrupulous lawyers who will file a suit just in hopes of getting a pay-off.  Sometimes a pay-off is cheaper than years of litigation.  You see these guys on your TV daily.  There is no such thing as an effective drug that is 100% safe for all individuals.  Any drug that is effective will have some side effects for certain individuals, most of the time they will be mild or almost non existent.  Still, there are those who find themselves a lawyer and try to make an easy buck.

So you say that you want socialized medicine.  You have no earthy idea what the cost will be.  First, there will be no new drugs to fight the new diseases which will surely develop.  The money will not be there for the research.  The government will dictate what the drug companies can charge for their products and the profit margins for research will not be there.  The public does not see what I see on a daily basis.  Most do not believe it when I tell them what is going on.  There are more and more of the population who have given up, gotten lazy, and are willing to go down and sign up for their welfare check.  With that welfare check comes a medical card that is worth more in health care dollars than any multimillionaire can buy in medical insurance.  On one occasion that I remember in particular, I filled prescriptions for a mother and her three under school age children that amounted to more than $800.00 and the only thing wrong with any of them was that they had a head cold and a case of the sniffles.  Worse yet, they had been to the emergency room at the hospital after the doctor's offices had closed because they didn't want to pay the $2.00 co-pay that was required at the doctor's office.  I could only guess at what the state was billed by the hospital for four emergency room visits.  I have witnessed similar happenings many, many times.  So let's give everyone a medical card.  You have no idea as to how much medicine that some people can and do take, not to mention a weekly trip to the doctor's office for the kids or themselves.  After all, it's free and we have nothing better to do!  The cost will quickly become prohibitive.

Also, very few individuals with the intelligence to graduate from medical school will spend at least 10 years after high school to work for the government at government wages following government regulations written by some bureaucrat who knows totally zip about the medical profession.  Hence, there will quickly become a shortage of doctors, leading to longer and longer waiting lines with less and less quality medical attention.  Quality medical tests will become a thing of the past.  Elective surgery will be months and months away, if ever.  Even emergency medical treatment may take as much a two to three days, if you live that long.  If you doubt what I am saying, you only have to look at the emergency rooms in our major metropolitan hospitals at the present time, with patients lining the halls in need of immediate attention and not enough doctors available to handle the work load.

As the well quoted Margaret Thatcher once said, "The only thing wrong with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

[fiddle mike]

my wife and i both work in healthcare. we dont have a porsche or vacation home. we also have crappy insurance.
but i know someone that puts hog rings on seats for GM. they have a caddy and a vacation home. does that count?
they also have excellent insurance. and get paid 95% when laid off!!
 ???

I read a few yrs back that docs in the US average $152,000 per year (I'm sure that hasn't gone down, either).    Most people in my neck of the woods make closer to a tenth of that.  

Your bud works for the Feds, now.

[PharmBoy]

Oh yes, Mike, you are going to have a lot of time to fiddle waiting on medical attention when Obama and the Democrats write an all encompassing health care plan.  Like social security, the post office, or Am-track are such shinning successes!  I can only wait to see what a success that GM and Chrysler become under government leadership.  The only thing that these jokers really excel at is writing "PORK" into any and every bill they pass...JTL

[woody]

Over here in Aussie land the guvment have begun thinking about eliminating our "Free" health care. It is not free we pay a levy each week out of our incom tax, we also have to pay medical insurance which, is as you all have said, does not cover the whole sum.
The problem is the insurers, they hound the guvment to reduce "Free" health care so that people have to pay them for some security. Then the parasites suck money out of you with ever increasing premiums and ever reducing payouts. I say piss off the insurers, pay money direct to hospitals (not the great parasites the guvment because they would waste it) and we could all have much better health care without parasites making billions of dollars for jack.

[Serk]

My primary care physician, who is GREAT IMHO (I've been riding 50 miles each way to see him for 5+ years now, he's that good) just recently has had enough... He's dropped out of the insurance rat race, he's out of plan for all insurance companies, he will NOT file with insurance, he won't deal with 'em at all...

His visits are $75 for 1-2 issues, or $100 for more issues than that, flat rate, that's it, all inclusive...

He's also able to spend a LOT more time with ya' now then before. Before to make rent and staff and everything else with the small amount he got from insurance for the visits he was having to deal with multiple patients at once, letting the nurses do most of the real work...

Now when I go to see him, he sits down and spends real time with me, getting to know me, getting to know the REAL issues behind what I've come to see him about... It's FAR better care, because it's not in and out as fast as he can, he's free to prescribe what really IS the best option, and free to spend the time with us that's necessary to really understand what's going on and make a proper diagnosis and/or treat the problem...

Anyway... I just found it interesting. From what I've heard he's not alone, evidently a lot of doctor's are doing the same thing as him now...

[fiddle mike]

Oh yes, Mike, you are going to have a lot of time to fiddle waiting on medical attention when Obama and the Democrats write an all encompassing health care plan.  Like social security, the post office, or Am-track are such shinning successes!  I can only wait to see what a success that GM and Chrysler become under government leadership.  The only thing that these jokers really excel at is writing "PORK" into any and every bill they pass...JTL

I already wait.

GM is screwed but they were screwed before Obama was a household word.

You're dead-on about the pork.  The very people who cried about previous deficits don't seem to have any problem 'putting our children's future in hock' now that they are writing the checks.  I'd to see them write some checks that would give us a valuable return on the money we kick in every April. I'd have like to have seen it four years ago, for that matter.

 I'm not convinced that there are any differences in politicians other than a meaningless party label.

To Woody: Previous Texas Governor Ann Richards campaigned that she would 'fix the insurance companies'.  She fixed them up nicely, too, she got her father a big pay-off then saddled the rest of us with same problem you have.  Couple that with the professionally accident prone  who are too lazy to collect welfare, lawyers who cater to them and juries too cursed dumb for words and everyone pays.

[PharmBoy]

my wife and i both work in healthcare. we dont have a porsche or vacation home. we also have crappy insurance.
but i know someone that puts hog rings on seats for GM. they have a caddy and a vacation home. does that count?
they also have excellent insurance. and get paid 95% when laid off!!
 ???

I read a few yrs back that docs in the US average $152,000 per year (I'm sure that hasn't gone down, either).    Most people in my neck of the woods make closer to a tenth of that.  

Your bud works for the Feds, now.

No one seems to remember the 10 years minimum that one has to live like a dog and study day and night with little to no social life and all the money is going out, not coming in while earning the right to practice medicine.  Even then, life is far from rosy.  They have tremendous equipment set up costs for starters and most have student loans to pay and it takes time to build a profitable practice.  People don't just knock their door down the minute that they hang up their shingle.  I have known several excellent M.D.s personally.  Most of them were good men also, who were sincerely engaged in trying to help their fellow man.  Not one of these guys would I have been willing to follow around both day and night for all the tea in China.  A typical day starts by making rounds at the hospital at 6 Am, being at the office at 8 to 8:30 and staying there till 5:30 to 6 PM (lunch is a cold sandwich or fruit), then it is off to the hospital again to make rounds until at least 8 PM.  Eat a snack at home and grab a few hours rest till it is time to do it all over again.  The good ones don't do it for the money, the money comes because they are dedicated to helping people and they are good at it.  As for me, six years seems like a long time to get a pharmacy degree, I don't think that I could have ever held on for ten...JTL

[Charlie]

Does anyone here want to know why our health care system is so expensive?  I have been in it for about as long as anyone that is still active and I can sum it up to you in two words because I have been here to see it go down the tubes.  Those two words are "Insurance" and "Lawyers".  When I graduated from college, the average price of a prescription was $3.25 (cash price-there was no insurance involvement at all).  Then along came Blue Cross and offered the chain drug stores $3.00 + Wholesale price of the drug which didn't take into account the 30 day payment discount and immediate payment discounts.  The chains were delighted!  Today, they are still getting $3.00 per prescription + or - a little depending on which insurance company is paying the bill, even though the actual cost of the medication to the store may be in the hundreds of dollars.  What the average person does not understand is that the insurance companies control the medical community with an iron fist.  They tell your Doctor how much they will pay for your office visit and how much he can charge you for your co-pay for that visit.  They tell him which medications that they will pay for and which ones that they will not pay for without regard as to which one you actually need for your medical problem.  Many times this severely limits a superb doctor in his ability to prescribe the best medications.  Insurance companies also set the extravagant premiums which that doctor must pay to protect himself from malpractice lawsuits.  As for you the patient, your insurance company tells you what your premium will be, what your co-pay will be both at the doctor's office and at the pharmacy.  Neither the doctor or the pharmacist has any say in what you are paying.  Your insurance company is in control.  They tell your pharmacist how much they will pay him for the medication that he puts into that little brown bottle for you (usually wholesale less 15-18%).  Then they will pay a dispensing fee of $1.75 - $4.50 depending on the company and the contract.  Insurance companies now say, "Here is the contract, take it or leave it!"  Also, the bottles, labels, paper sacks, receipts, & labor comes out of that dispensing fee. 

So you say that you want socialized medicine.  You have no earthy idea what the cost will be.  First, there will be no new drugs to fight the new diseases which will surely develop.  The money will not be there for the research.  The government will dictate what the drug companies can charge for their products and the profit margins for research will not be there.  The public does not see what I see on a daily basis.  Most do not believe it when I tell them what is going on.  There are more and more of the population who have given up, gotten lazy, and are willing to go down and sign up for their welfare check.  With that welfare check comes a medical card that is worth more in health care dollars than any multimillionaire can buy in medical insurance.  On one occasion that I remember in particular, I filled prescriptions for a mother and her three under school age children that amounted to more than $800.00 and the only thing wrong with any of them was that they had a head cold and a case of the sniffles.  Worse yet, they had been to the emergency room at the hospital after the doctor's offices had closed because they didn't want to pay the $2.00 co-pay that was required at the doctor's office.  I could only guess at what the state was billed by the hospital for four emergency room visits.  I have witnessed similar happenings many, many times.  So let's give everyone a medical card.  You have no idea as to how much medicine that some people can and do take, not to mention a weekly trip to the doctor's office for the kids or themselves.  After all, it's free and we have nothing better to do!  The cost will quickly become prohibitive.

Also, very few individuals with the intelligence to graduate from medical school will spend at least 10 years after high school to work for the government at government wages following government regulations written by some bureaucrat who knows totally zip about the medical profession.  Hence, there will quickly become a shortage of doctors, leading to longer and longer waiting lines with less and less quality medical attention.  Quality medical tests will become a thing of the past.  Elective surgery will be months and months away, if ever.  Even emergency medical treatment may take as much a two to three days, if you live that long.  If you doubt what I am saying, you only have to look at the emergency rooms in our major metropolitan hospitals at the present time, with patients lining the halls in need of immediate attention and not enough doctors available to handle the work load.

As the well quoted Margaret Thatcher once said, "The only thing wrong with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money".

This is all very complicated.  The only question I have to ask is, Why would any of those businesses stay in the health care business if they weren't making a profit?

One other point.  My wife works for the US Bankruptcy Courts.  They put out a report that 60% of all bankruptcies are due to unaffordable Health Care costs, which caused them to file for bankruptcy.  Something has to be done.

[2tonevalk]

Well let me chime in here. I been working in medicine for 30 yrs.  Nothing personal to you Mike in this comment.
First let me say.  Do you really want a government that is sending "stimulus checks" to people dead 35 yrs running your healthcare?????  
Second.  I have worked in dr's offices several of these years.  Let's look at a couple of examples of people getting "free" healthcare.  One I remember well.  Little boy breaks his arm over the weekend.  Seen in ER with non displaced fracture.  Was supposed to come to our office WITH xrays from hospital ( hospital is only 1.2 miles from our office).  The appointment was MONDAY.  The films had to be read by the radiologist BEFORE they could be taken from the hospital.  Therefore mom had to wait til Monday to get the films.  She was told to come by the hospital on her way to our office and pick up the films.  This was our clinic policy.   Mother shows up with child and Medicaid card......NOT xrays.  Mom was given explicit instructions to bring films.  Our receptionist had quite the conversation with this lady over getting the xrays.  "She forgot"  "She doesnt have enough gas to go 2 miles to get the xrays"  "She cant afford the gas to go 2 miles" etc.  Finally the lady flops the medicaid card on the counter and says in a firm and put out voice "Well its MEDICAID YOU CAN JUST MAKE SOME MORE".   She could care less it was MY/OUR tax money providing her FREE healthcare.  Oh yes, she COULD however afford the cigarettes she went in front of our office and smoked the whole time she was in our office.
Another "gem" of a patient.  Patient has NO insurance (no medical or motorcycle insurance) .    Is in the hospital with torn up broken leg from riding his crotch rocket like a stunt man.  He gets MRSA infection in his "hamburgered" leg.  He is adamant about not being an amputee.  However he is less than willing to do what the doctor instructs him to do.  He is in the hospital for several weeks.  At least ONE week he is there because he cannot afford the antibiotics he can take at home for the infection that has since been brought under management.  Our Social Worker gets his medicines for FREE.  It will not cost him one dime for the meds which are the newest/cutting edge oral antibiotics.  Well OVER 1,000 dollars in medicine per month.  All he has to do is go to the pharmacy where the drugs are shipped to.    OK are you ready for the punchline....................HE DID NOT GO TO THE PHARMACY FOR THE MEDICINE!!!   WHY???????  He just did not FEEL like going to the pharmacy.    OK did you get it????  He was getting FREE medicine, FREE healthcare however he would not do what was needed to cure himself.    End of story, he was back in the hospital in less than 10 days.  To date he has had honestly over a dozen surgeries on his ankle.  OH yeah, he was using this ankle injury to keep himself out of jail.  He was too "sick" to go to court, etc.
Third, in my home state of Arkansas, Medicaid is going broke....go figure.  So our ole buddy Bill Clinton then governor, you should remember him, comes up with a law.  It says, Medicaid recipients are to PAY a 10 dolllar copay just like everyone who has insurance does.  This was to be paid at the time of the visit.  Now the fun part.  The LAW also stated that a doctor could NOT refuse to see a Medicaid patient IF they did not have the money to pay the copay.  Guess what happened then......You got it.....The Medicaid-ers would flop down the ole card and state verbatum...."I dont have the copay and you canot refuse to see me".
OK my point with these VERY REAL and VERY TRUE case studies is this.  No one receiving anything FREE has a vested interest in getting well.  They have nothing vested so therefore they dont see the need to do what they are told to make themselves well.
 I pay for my healthcare.  I have a vested interest in getting well.  It COSTS me everytime I go to the doctor.  So therefore I  follow instructions to get well, so I can go back to work and I dont waste my time and money having to go to the doctor.
Now your going to say that this is just a couple of "rare" cases.  Not true.  This is the day to day at every doctor's office, hospital, and medical facility nationwide.  I know I have worked from New Jersey to Hawaii.  OUr schedule suffers everyday in my hospital because these people always run late with their prescheduled arrival times, cannot be located even though they everyone have blackberry phones and drive "welfare" Navigators.  Hell I cant even afford a blackberry or a Navigator for that matter.  They are the ones who eat and drink before their surgeries, even though they were instructed to no eat or drink ANYTHING after midnight.  They come walking in sucking on a sucker or drinking a Coke.
Oh yes and one other thing.  One of the biggest lobbyists in Washington DC is the INSURANCE companies...blame them.  Of course, these are the people who grease the politicians ON BOTH SIDES.
Doctors are over and over screwed by the system since the early 80s.
Sorry guys, but a "free healthcare" system does not work and never will.  I also say a FREE healthcare program because the kool aid drinkers will NOT be willing to pay a monthly premium for insurance no matter how little the out of pocket expense.  
Oh yeah, and when it becomes socialized.  Wait til the reality of waiting 12 to 18 months for your procedure, surgical or not sets in.  Why do you think the Canadians are always crossing the border because their procedure is on a backlog of 18 plus months.  Oh yeah, and when you turn 56, if you dont havea donated kidney, the government quits paying for your dialysis.  Without dialysis....you die.  End of story.  Oh yes, this story comes from England.....a socialized healthcare nation.  When your loved one DIES of their brain tumor that is treatable but due to the wait it goes on growing and takes their life.  This ALSO happens right above our northern border.
And I know Mike there are good hearted honest people out there suffering.  HOWEVER THESE are the exception and NOT the rule. I cannot imagine what it is like owing such a huge amount of money.
And one more thing.  South Carolina is now 3 rd in the nation for most unemployed.  The problem is NOT that we dont have jobs available, its that we have too many people who CANT pass the drug screen.  Also IF they become employed it REDUCES or cuts out their FREE STUFF (housing, medicine, food, etc.)  Therefore, guess what.....they STAY unemployed because they want to.  Or they dont get a job because they are making money under the table selling drugs, working for cash, etc.
The problem IS NOT healthcare.  It is NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES.  However you will never see a system put in place to "penalize" these who prey on the system.
And these are my PERSONAL observations.  I have SEEN these things described first hand.  It is NOT from You tube, or Fox or CNN.  I HAVE SEEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN ON A DAILY BASIS FOR OVER 30 YEARS.

Flame on boys.

[Chrisj CMA]

We have the best health care system in the world! BAR NONE.  What we need is Legal reform to stop frivilous lawsuits and to get rid of HMO's that only serve as a middle men to drive up the cost so we can pay for administrative people that are totally useless.  If the free market and fair competition were allowed to run in the medical world and the insurance world without corrupt government controls and stupid regulations we would have many more people being able to afford coverage.  Then if we stopped providing free care to NON citizens we could afford to do SO much more for our citizens that cant afford coverage.

In other words.......keep the government out of the healthcare business, chain most of the lawyers together at the bottom of the sea and stop giving away benifits to illegals that dont deserve it and there would be no need for another trillion dollars of deficit spending to screw things up far worse than they are now!

[razor]

The argument over "free healthcare" always amazes me.

 THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE HEALTHCARE!!!!!!  THERE NEVER WILL BE ANYTHING FREE!

Somebody is paying for the people who are getting it now, and the honest hardworking taxpayers will be paying for it if the government gets its POWER HUNGRY hands on healthcare.

But here's the bottom line.   and Mike since you brought it up, i'm going to ask you a very pointed question. 

Why is it my responsibility to pay for your son's healthcare?  Why is it my responsibility to pay for ANYONE's health but my own?  Because all the people who are in favor of "free healthcare" are telling me they want the government to point their guns at me and make me give them the money to give to someone else for their healthcare!!

People need to realize that the Government takes your money AT GUNPOINT and gives it to someone else for all of the so-called social programs!!!!!!
 
Now I believe in charity, but I want to be the one  who decides which charities I want to give MY MONEY to.

[fiddle mike]

Why is it my responsibility to pay for your son's healthcare?  Why is it my responsibility to pay for ANYONE's health but my own?  Because all the people who are in favor of "free healthcare" are telling me they want the government to point their guns at me and make me give them the money to give to someone else for their healthcare!!

You must be one of the lucky ones who don't pay taxes.

[Valker]

Health care is expensive today (not totally, but somewhat) because insurance pays huge bills. Look back at the history of home ownership and house prices. When they discovered mortgage loans, MANY more people bought houses and more expensive houses because they didn't have to pay it all at once. When the money availability goes up, the prices rise to match it. Many hospitals have two prices for services, one for folks who have insurance and one for those who don't.

[razor]

Why is it my responsibility to pay for your son's healthcare?  Why is it my responsibility to pay for ANYONE's health but my own?  Because all the people who are in favor of "free healthcare" are telling me they want the government to point their guns at me and make me give them the money to give to someone else for their healthcare!!

You must be one of the lucky ones who don't pay taxes.

Why do you say that?  What the heck are you trying to say. 

I pay too many taxes, not by choice since they give it away to people that don't work and waste the majority of it. But if I didn't they would come with guns and take it.   For your information,  I also pay for my employees' health insurance.  that's my choice. 

But I notice you didn't answer my question. 

[Scanner]

One of the primary reasons the auto companies are failing is their healthcare costs.  Healthcare alone adds $1500 to each vehicle  Then take a look at their retiree healthcare costs.

They then have to compete with the other international corps who don't have to provide those costs thru employers.  Yeah, we could do away with employer provided insurance but I bet the majority on this board would have a hell of a time paying the tab for themselves. I know I would.

Healthcare costs make it difficult for any American product to be competitive cost-wise, internally and internationally.

[Wizzard]

We have the best health care system in the world! BAR NONE.  What we need is Legal reform to stop frivilous lawsuits and to get rid of HMO's that only serve as a middle men to drive up the cost so we can pay for administrative people that are totally useless.  If the free market and fair competition were allowed to run in the medical world and the insurance world without corrupt government controls and stupid regulations we would have many more people being able to afford coverage.  Then if we stopped providing free care to NON citizens we could afford to do SO much more for our citizens that cant afford coverage.

In other words.......keep the government out of the healthcare business, chain most of the lawyers together at the bottom of the sea and stop giving away benifits to illegals that dont deserve it and there would be no need for another trillion dollars of deficit spending to screw things up far worse than they are now!

AMEN TO THE ABOVE

[woody]

This is quite a hot topic.
I agree with all of you in varying degrees, the crux of the matter is that;
1) We pay taxes that are being friviously wasted on persons who have not contributed to the system.
2) Health funds make too much profit at the expense of the health care givers.
3) People (even some of us) will not take responsibility for our own mistakes (hence lawsuits)
4) Lawyers, Judges and Politicians all need the system to survive.
         without law suits or stupid laws, Judges, Lawyers and Politicians would be out of a job.

I know I have to pay taxes its eternal sure as (death and taxes) but I pay taxes for 4 reasons.
1) so that I know if my family or myself are sick, there are facilities in which they can be cared for.
2) So that my children can be educated, not end up dum like me.
3) So that there is a protective group of persons (lets call them police) who will protect my rights.
4) So that there is a protective group of persons, braver than me, who will fight my countries enemies and protect me from being overrun by bad people.

Notice I dont say to pay politicans huge wages, give money to "poor deserving" countries, aliens, banks  or bludgers.
But Im just another PLEB who is only of interest to these parasites when election time comes around.

[Strong Eagle]

We have the best health care system in the world! BAR NONE. 

Well... there you go again... making up 'facts' out of whole cloth.  Fact is, our health care system sucks and Fiddle Mike provided but one example of the problems.

Let's look at just a few of the problems.  The multi-payer system in place today consumes 30 percent of total medical expenses... think about it... your $100 doctor visit would be $66 if not for the insurance overhead... that tells you not to go to the doctor in the first place.

Then there is the problem of 'for profit' hospitals and clinics.  You know that new MRI scanner... the one that costs $500,000?  It needs to be paid for... and you'll get a scan whether you really need it or not... because doctors are evaluated on their 'contribution' to the for profit hospital or clinic.  Hell, the docs themselves buy these machines to make money.

The biggest problem of all?  How is it that the employer is the one to provide medical benefits?  Besides the fact that the employee loses medical coverage if he/she leaves, the employer is at a disadvantage with the rest of the world because no other employers need to provide health benefits.  I have read that $2500 of every GM car covers health care benefits.  Any wonder their cars suck?

And I don't know what yardstick you would use to call the situation in the US as the "best health care system in the world"... but it is far from the best when it comes to covering people... just like Fiddle Milke... no options... doesn't have an employer... must pay outrageous premiums or not have insurance at all.  And, for any given medical treatment, the US costs far more for identical care... that is "best"?  I think not.

A national insurance plan is not socialized medicine... and Obama has not proposed a UK or Canadian plan.  He has proposed a plan that shifts health care costs from the employer to the individual and in doing so offers breaks to the employer.  Fact is, health care costs have to come from somewhere.  Why not from the individual in the form of taxes while allowing employers to pay larger salaries and become more competitive in the global marketplace? 

[stormrider]

Is it $1500 or $2500. You and Scanner need to make your "facts" line up. You're both always accusing us of mis-qouting facts or questioning facts or figures we us. One of you is wrong. Who will owe up to being wrong? Lord forbid that. One of the two wisest of all, wrong about something. What is the world coming to?

[MP]

And, Strong Eagle, is the $500,000 scanner FREE under the gov't plan????  I doubt it.  Someone, us, will pay.  The costs will still be there.  

If you think somehow tha gov' will give us BETTER care, at LESS cost than you are paying, now, man, do I have some beach front property in AZ to sell you!

The Medicaid program is close to govt health care, and it is going broke fast, sucking us into a black tax hole.  How would a natl health care plan be better?

Obama has already turned GW's 1 Trillion dollar def. into a 4 Trillion dollar shortfall, and is projected to be a 10 Trillion dollar shortfall in a few years.  Ye Gods, WHO is going to pay?  There is not enough money in the US to pay.  The US will be as, or even more, broke than California is.

MP