Engine Ticking Problem

[DarkSideR]

I am  new owner of a 2001 Valk. After I performed my 1st oil change, I noticed a ticking sound coming from the bottom of the engine at idle. The ticking sound goes away above 1200 RPM. I used the same oil the previous owner used, and checked the oil level to be correct.

I have researched this to find an issue with the Exhaust Header nuts coming loose.

At this time I have replaced all 6 exhaust gaskets, and have checked several times that the nuts on the headers are still torqued to the spec'd 7lbs.

I however still have the ticking noise. The bike runs fine, gets 34mpg, and has no other symptoms.

I would greatly appreciate feedback from anyone who has experienced, and resolved any similar situations. Thank you.

[longrider]

If the m/c has not been de-smogged it is most likely the Pair valve.  nothing you can do with it unless you remove it by installing a desmog kit.  mine has done this since day one.

warren

[Kylenav]

+1 on the pair valves.  They sit directly under the air box and tick like crazy at all RPM but most noticeable at idle.  I thought it was my valves when I first got my Valk but after a valve job and some poking around with a wooden rod to narrow it down it's the pair valves and no big deal what so ever.  It was my reason to put the cobra 6X6 pipes on, can barely notice it now

[DarkSideR]

My apologies for not stating that the bike had previously been de-smogged. Again the ticking is coming from the bottom of the engine. I am having a hard time determining exactly where.

 - !!!Update!!! Torqued the exhaust header nuts to 8.5lbs, and still hear the ticking.

[Ricky-D]

You can make a stethoscope from a length of garden hose to further identify where the ticking is coming from.

If you think it's coming from inside the motor, use a long screwdriver to listen and determine from where the ticking is coming.

You have to find it (ticking) in order to get good suggestions.

Otherwise, you are going to get many suggestions covering the whole bike from front to rear, with most not useful for your particular case.

Find the source!

***

[GJS]

Re-torque your exhaust nuts. Maybe replace and an exhaust gasket or three.
A leaking exhaust can sound like ticking.

You can also check this by putting your fingers around to headers (careful easy to burn oneself).

Good luck.

[DarkSideR]

Okay, stethoscoped the entire bottom end of the engine and valve covers. I am happy to state that the ticking sound isn't coming from the valves, nor does the sound come from the bottom of the engine case/pan. I tried my best to listen at each exhaust header flange but still could not make it out. Here is where this issue stands on this Ticking Noise;
 - Ticking come from underneath the engine.
 - The bike has be de-smogged (no pair valves).
 - 6 New Exhaust Gaskets.
 - All Exhaust Header Nuts torqued to 8.5lbs.

If anyone else has experienced a ticking noise that fits this scenario, please reply with your wisdom.

[DarkSideR]

Yes, I removed all 6 of the old gaskets, and used a wire bush to clean the area before I carefully installed the new gaskets.

 - I am thinking there may be another part to this equation. I have Supertrapp Headers. I wasn't aware of any issues with these, but it may be worth mentioning that these are not the stock headers.

 - Lastly the previous owner wasn't aware of any ticking noise.

[rangernight]

I experieced the same problem with my 01 IS, had a tick, seemed to be coming from the center of the engine.  The responses I recieved from the forum had me doing what you did.  I finally pulled the the valve covers with the enging hot, checked the valve clearance and it seemed ok, now I started the motor with the valve covers off and #2 cylinder was ticking-----checked all valve clearances again, #2 exhaust needed just a little closer adjustment when hot----can't explaine why but the fat girl quieted right down and no problems since.

[DarkSideR]

@ Rangernight - You are my hero, and far braver than I (Run the motor with the valve cover off!). The previous owner stated he'd properly serviced the valves, but now I know that may not be the case.

 - One more question for you. When the engine is cold, would you suggest I set the valve clearances on the tight end (low side '-',) or the looser end (high side '+') to avoid this problem in the future?

[Patrick]

You ran the engine with the valve covers off !!  That'll rust-proof everything within  a 10 mile area !!

[Patrick]

Engine 'ticks' have always been a common complaint.. Generally its an exhaust gasket,, which can be a real PITA to correct.. I prefer the after market fiber gaskets[ can't think of the name without going out and looking] over the cooper rings.. All that said,, some of these critters just plain 'tick' no matter what you try.. Its just another one of lifes little wonderments..  Glenn believes the tick comes from the oil pump chain and he may be right..

[DarkSideR]

@ Patrick - If it is the oil pump chain.. Then simply removing the belt covers and inspecting would determine the source? Or is it more in depth than that?

 So far I have to suggestions;
 - Check Valve Clearances
  + Still need to know if I should adjust to the low end or the high end of the clearance.
 - Could be the Oil Pump Chain
  + Question is removing the belt cover all it takes to inspect the chain?

[Ricky-D]

The oil pump chain is inside the motor and cannot be accessed without breaking down the motor.

Since you say the motor has been de-smogged:

Check on the bottom side of the heads where there are ports connected to the smog control system.

They should be blocked off.

This could possibly be the cause of the ticking if they are not blocked.

You can use a long screwdriver like you would use a stethoscope to listen for noises inside the motor. A good way to hear and locate the ticking if it is coming from inside the motor.

***

[BlueValk]

After I performed my 1st oil change, I noticed a ticking sound coming from the bottom of the engine at idle. The ticking sound goes away above 1200 RPM.
 

My bike has done this since new.  I have tried everything that I could think of and finally just excepted that it ticks at idle and goes away above idle.  It is "funny" that it is worse right after an oil change.  I believe it is the rockers making noise and new fresh oil allows them to move easier.

BlueValk

[DarkSideR]

BlueValk, any noticeable difference in the Ticks between Conventional Motor Oil vs a Synthetic Oil?

[BlueValk]

I know that it was better and worse with different oils, but didn't document it and my memory is near useless.

But, right now, I am using Rotella T6 and the ticking is definitely less. 

I had tried some STP oil thickiner as an experiment when it was new and that did not make any difference.  That's when I gave up on it.

It is odd that the ticking would lessen as the oil got older and be louder with the new oil.  Go figure ...

BlueValk

[CASABROKER]

the Valk is just a ticky bike.  I've gotten used to it. 

[Ricky-D]

It is odd that the ticking would lessen as the oil got older and be louder with the new oil.

Dirty oil takes up clearances.

***

[Patrick]

Since this is such a bullet proof engine and the valve lash doesn't 'move around' like on some engines,, I don't think it would hurt to decrease the valve lash a thou,, but,, I don't think it'll do any good either.. If you have to take the valve covers off just for peace of mind,, adjust them carefully and correctly and they'll stay put for a long long time.. It seems to me that you have a 'ticky' engine,, yours isn't the only one..
Oh,, you can't quite get to the oil pump drive by removing the front timing cover,, its quite a ways from there..

[RP#62]

There's a condensation drain on the underside of each exhaust pipe just aft of where the three pipes come together.  Some have reported that these can sometimes be the source of a ticking noise at low RPMs. 

Mine has been making ticking noises every now and then for the last 14 years.  I thought it was supposed to.
-RP

[bentwrench]

I've had an intermitent ticking on start up.Doesn't do it all the time.Goes away with in a minute most of the time though sometimes  I think I hear it sitting at light fully warmed up.Had the oil analized the report said my engine was in excelent condition no signs of metals.So I say let her tick if it makes her happy .I'm just gonna keep riden.
bw

[rangernight]

I have a stand that keeps the fat girl on her wheels when serviceing, I just put a pan under each side of the engine to catch the oil----it dosen't splash every where, however it does make a mess.
This let me hear the valve clatter on #2, and yes I had to tighten down .001 to get it to quiet down, that has been several thousand miles ago and have no ill effects to this date.
The tick was driving me crazy, had to find it---I did and all is well.

[DarkSideR]

@ All - Thank you for your wisdom. From your suggestions I am going to take the following actions;
 - I am currently using a Synthetic Blend Oil (10w-40), but from BlueValk's suggestion I am going to use a Conventional motor oil (and maybe a slightly heavier weight).
 - From Rangernight's suggestion I am going to check the valve clearances, setting them to the low end of the clearance range.
 - From Patrick's suggestion since the bike only has 29k I will not inspect the oil pump chain.

After all this if she still ticks I will learn to live with it (even though is it kind of embarrassing).

Once I do all the work I will follow up and let you know what my efforts did to the engine ticking. Thanks again.

[Ricky-D]

I would not suggest to going back to dino oil.

Rather it may help going to a 20w50 synthetic oil.

I myself use a blend oil 20w50 and never heard a peep from my motor.

***

[gordonv]

Getting here a little late, but my first thought from what I have read here in the past was motor oil.

Sounds like you have already heard it all, and are willing to try a different oil. No one has ever mentioned damage along with the noice, so there is no rush, and you have already checked/ruled out the other possibilities.

I think I would continue checking your oil level, and when you need to top it up, use some heaver oil, and listen to see if it quiten downs a little.

[Lyle Laun]

I've recently experienced the same thing following an oil change. I put in Motul from my Honda dealer and had an instant low rpm tick which just about drove me crazy trying to locate. I will be switching oil next change and going back to Castrol semi synthetic.

[elpaso jo]

i changed the engine oil to specs in my valk recently and There is also a slight ticking sound at idle, was definitely not there before.
Thought someone might like to know.

[DarkSideR]

!!! Update !!! (Quick history on the issue; I purchased a Valk rode it for 2 weeks no problems. Changed the oil to a 10w-40 Synthetic Blend. Engine started ticking).

 - As per suggestions made here, I changed the oil to a 20w-50 Synthetic Blend oil and now the engine ticks intermittently. I originally thought the oil change corrected the issue because now it doesn't tick when the engine is cold. When the engine is warm it will tick intermittently.

 - I will also check the valve clearances, but won't be able to do that for a couple of weeks.

[Ricky-D]

If the change in oil viscosity had an affect on the ticking you can be pretty confident the the noise is emitting from a ill adjusted rocker arm.

Strange you have not been able to localize where the noise is coming from seeing there are so many different ways to investigate the origin of the noise.

Maybe you should seek some help locally, like another set of ears on the problem.

***

[DarkSideR]

@ Ricky-D - I have had two sets of ears on it. Even made a stethoscope and probed around. I cannot localize the ticking. I had a suggestion that it may be the oil pump chain which is internal, and if it is this it would make sense as to why it's hard to locate. I however do plan on checking the valves.

[olddog1946]

Put some cobras on it,,,then you won't hear nothin..

[BradValk48237]

Turn up the radio........

[Ricky-D]

If the clicking is mechanically produced it should be able to be localized somewhere on the motor with a screwdriver being used as a stethoscope and a great stethoscope can be had at harbor freight for just a few bucks.

A chain will not click (the oil pump chain) but the connection between the oil pump and the water pump can and will click if there is a problem. You ought to be able to locate that easily on the bottom front of the motor. Elevating the bike would be a good aid in detection of the clicking noise.

Clicking from the combustion in a cylinder can sometimes be heard through the exhaust header but if you have stock exhaust pipes it would be very unlikely. Aftermarket exhaust pipes are a different matter since they are single wall header pipes.

You would use a hose to listen to the audible noise, trying to locate the source, while a screwdriver is better to listen for internal, mechanically produced noises. Two different methods using two different type of instruments.

If you having a hard time understanding the principals, an auto mechanic will certainly be willing to demonstrate how to do it. I'm not being critical here and and I'm not criticizing you at all.

You could isolate each individual exhaust header with some fiberglass insulation to help localize if the clicking is coming from and exhaust.

There are specific ways to check for piston slap which can produce clicking noises.

I want to say that I misstated above, that the noise was surely from the valve train. There are many other reasons why a heavier oil might calm the clicking noise. I dismissed all the other possible reasons unjustly.  A heavier oil quieting the clicking would indicate that the noise is mechanically produced from an item that is oil bathed.

The slide inside each carburetor has the potential to make a clicking noise in which case a screwdriver should be able to detect the location and offending carburetor.

***

[IamGCW]

I remember reading some weeks ago that one rider fixed a ticking sound like you described.  It was the impeller on the water pump.  He had a fix that was also posted.

My valk ticks also, switching to cobras helped hide the sound.

Gil

[squirrel9]

Interesting to read that i am not alone... I had exactly same story 1 year ago and also tried to investigate why that tick sound is on rpm until 1200-1300. I bought Valk '99, made full service and then mentioned tick on idling. Can not remember that it was there before maintenance...
I checked valves, seems all fine. Checked header nuts torque, also fine. But still ticking...

Now I will change oil and lets see will it make any difference. But actually I am used to have that idle tick already... as it probably do not hurt engine.