Front right inside brake pad clicking

[Gavin_Sons]

so I have read all about the front axel not being seated properly and even gave mr. dave weaver a call to get his opinion. The axel is seated properly. When I spin the wheel the right inside brake pad clicks. Pulled the caliper to check it out and it seems like it is put together correctly, but has a little play on the shaft that holds the pads on.
Im clueless

[RP#62]

I think the word "seated" is a misnomer.  The axle doesn't seat on anything, its free to float left and right, and the only thing that limits how far left or right it can be is the brake disks hitting one side or the other within the gaps in the calipers.  The service manual procedure is lacking in my opinion in that it leaves you to determine if you have positioned the axle far enough left or right by trial and error.  It just says install it, torque it down, then see if the disks are centered in the calipers.  It should tell you before you take anything apart to note the position of the end of the axle relative to the lower fork, i.e. whether its flush or not, and be sure to reassemble to the same depth.  That would save you some time putting it back together.   

-RP

[Gavin_Sons]

Yeah well I didnt read that. Haha. I was under the impression the axel had to be all the way in. its only that one pad clicking. Maybe ill buy new pads and see if that fixes it.

[Chrisj CMA]

When you say right side......is that the bikes right side (throttle side) or the right side as you are looking at it from the front (clutch side)?

[Chrisj CMA]

I think the word "seated" is a misnomer.  The axle doesn't seat on anything, its free to float left and right, and the only thing that limits how far left or right it can be is the brake disks hitting one side or the other within the gaps in the calipers.  The service manual procedure is lacking in my opinion in that it leaves you to determine if you have positioned the axle far enough left or right by trial and error.  It just says install it, torque it down, then see if the disks are centered in the calipers.  It should tell you before you take anything apart to note the position of the end of the axle relative to the lower fork, i.e. whether its flush or not, and be sure to reassemble to the same depth.  That would save you some time putting it back together.   

-RP

Im not sure bout this one.  I work on a lot of Valkyries and I seat the axle all the way in tighten the left (clutch side) pinch bolts and that gives me a solid mount for all the parts and it always works perfectly.  Once or twice I failed to get the axle in all the way and the result was always the same.......caliper riding on the disk rivits (left side only)......I dont think there is a measurement or an adjustment here......the alignment is assured by axacting tolerances of all the parts including axle length based on the axle being inserted as far as it can go into the left fork lower. 

[RP#62]

I think the word "seated" is a misnomer.  The axle doesn't seat on anything, its free to float left and right, and the only thing that limits how far left or right it can be is the brake disks hitting one side or the other within the gaps in the calipers.  The service manual procedure is lacking in my opinion in that it leaves you to determine if you have positioned the axle far enough left or right by trial and error.  It just says install it, torque it down, then see if the disks are centered in the calipers.  It should tell you before you take anything apart to note the position of the end of the axle relative to the lower fork, i.e. whether its flush or not, and be sure to reassemble to the same depth.  That would save you some time putting it back together.   

-RP

Im not sure bout this one.  I work on a lot of Valkyries and I seat the axle all the way in tighten the left (clutch side) pinch bolts and that gives me a solid mount for all the parts and it always works perfectly.  Once or twice I failed to get the axle in all the way and the result was always the same.......caliper riding on the disk rivits (left side only)......I dont think there is a measurement or an adjustment here......the alignment is assured by axacting tolerances of all the parts including axle length based on the axle being inserted as far as it can go into the left fork lower. 

Well, there's a shoulder on the axle that can seat on the wheel, but then the whole axle/wheel assy is free to move about as far left or right as you want to go (of course if you don't lock it down in the proper position, the disks won't be centered in the calipers).  Next time you have the front wheel apart, slide just the axle into the lower forks and tell me what it seats against, i.e. what limits how far you can push it in.

-RP

-RP

[Chrisj CMA]

I think the word "seated" is a misnomer.  The axle doesn't seat on anything, its free to float left and right, and the only thing that limits how far left or right it can be is the brake disks hitting one side or the other within the gaps in the calipers.  The service manual procedure is lacking in my opinion in that it leaves you to determine if you have positioned the axle far enough left or right by trial and error.  It just says install it, torque it down, then see if the disks are centered in the calipers.  It should tell you before you take anything apart to note the position of the end of the axle relative to the lower fork, i.e. whether its flush or not, and be sure to reassemble to the same depth.  That would save you some time putting it back together.   

-RP

Im not sure bout this one.  I work on a lot of Valkyries and I seat the axle all the way in tighten the left (clutch side) pinch bolts and that gives me a solid mount for all the parts and it always works perfectly.  Once or twice I failed to get the axle in all the way and the result was always the same.......caliper riding on the disk rivits (left side only)......I dont think there is a measurement or an adjustment here......the alignment is assured by axacting tolerances of all the parts including axle length based on the axle being inserted as far as it can go into the left fork lower. 

Well, there's a shoulder on the axle that can seat on the wheel, but then the whole axle/wheel assy is free to move about as far left or right as you want to go (of course if you don't lock it down in the proper position, the disks won't be centered in the calipers).  Next time you have the front wheel apart, slide just the axle into the lower forks and tell me what it seats against, i.e. what limits how far you can push it in.

-RP

-RP

Well I did think there was a stop so it couldnt go all the way through, but either way the shoulder on the axle should be butted up against the inner race of the wheel bearing so it goes axle head bearing spacer bearing spacer axle nut torqued to 67ft lbs.  So you are saying that I could right now loosen my left pinch bolts and move the fork on the axle even though its torqued.  Hmmm, Ill have to check that one out.  If thats true I wudda lost a bet

[sugerbear]

loosen the pinch bolts, smak the axle with a deadblow hammer. tighten the bolt on the brake side, tighten the pinch bolts. 
it ain't rocket science.

[Gavin_Sons]

So I just went out loosened everythingmade sure the axel was in all the way. Torqued the axel nut and right(as your sitting on the bike) pinch bolts. Let it down and bounced the front end and torqued the left pinch bolts. Much better. Do not have the clicking from the brake pad any more. The pads drag a little. Tire spins about 10 times before stopping just spinning it by hand. Sound about right?

[salty1]

+1 Sugarbear! There should be at least 0.7 mm clearance between the disc and the caliper for all surfaces. Just slide the fork to achieve the clearances if need be and then re-tighten/torque the right pinch bolts.

[salty1]

Good job! Sorry for my late post above.

[sugerbear]

So I just went out loosened everythingmade sure the axel was in all the way. Torqued the axel nut and right(as your sitting on the bike) pinch bolts. Let it down and bounced the front end and torqued the left pinch bolts. Much better. Do not have the clicking from the brake pad any more. The pads drag a little. Tire spins about 10 times before stopping just spinning it by hand. Sound about right?

 

[f6john]

     Don't discount the possibility that one of the caliper pistons could be draging, just saying....

[sugerbear]

clicking after install is ALMOST always the axle not "seated"

[Gavin_Sons]

I did notice I need to pull the calipers and clean the pistons.

[Ricky-D]

I feel the replies are all looking at the incorrect cause of the clicking since you say it is coming from the right side brake caliper.  That is if you are using the correct identification practice in saying it is from the "right hand side" of the bike. That would be the throttle side, or the foot brake side.

There has, to my recollection, never been a report of a clicking from the right hand side brake caliper being caused by the improper installation of the axle.

Noises, or clicking from the caliper, caused by improper axle installation has been limited to only the left hand caliper, the clutch side, or the side stand side.

***

[sugerbear]

well............ no " base and juvenile responses" here. 
it is what it is.

[Cracker Jack]

It's amazing that this relatively simple procedure for installing the front wheel has confused so many people over the years including the people offering theories in this thread.

I agree with the poster above who said "seating" the axel is a misnomer. The axel bolt on the right side provides clamping pressure for the assembly when properly torqued. The clamped assembly consists of the right fork, spacer, right inner bearing race, distance collar, left bearing race and finally the speedometer gear housing. These parts are clamped between the axel bolt on the right side and the shoulder on the axel on the left side. The combined length of the clamped parts determines how deep the axel goes into the right fork.

The position of the fork on the axel on the right side is fixed and is not adjustable. This is why the right side is never a problem.

The left fork is not part of the clampup and is free to move on the larger part of the axel as long as the pinch bolts in the left fork are not tight. The left fork position on the axel is adjustable to allow it to be adjusted so the forks are parallel. That is that the centerline distance of the forks on the axel is the same as the centerline distance at the tripletree. If they are not parallel, the forks will be in a bind and will not allow the forks to freely move up and down and will introduce sideload on the fork bushings and seals. The result of this is stiff forks and shortened life of the bushings and seals.

Having said all that, the question is what is the proper way to install the wheel? The process is in two steps.

The first step is to install the axel and complete the clampup. Install the axel with all the parts on it and lightly "peck" the axle in until it bottoms out. Next, torque the axel bolt which provides the clamping pressure. You will need to temporarly tighten the pinch bolts in the left fork to keep the axel from turning. AFTER torqueing the axel bolt, tighten the pinch bolts in the right fork. The first step is complete.

The second step is to adjust the position of the fork on the left side to make the forks parallel. Loosen the pinch bolts in the left fork to allow the fork to move on the axel. Now it's time to hold the front brake and pump the forks up and down. This action is to cause the fork to move on the axel as necessary to make the forks parallel. If properly done and nothing has been previously "tweaked" , the left end of the axel will be approximately flush with the outside of the fork and the disc bolts won't hit anything. Tighten the left fork pinch bolts and take a ride.

If you buy into the above and want to check your installation, no disassembly will be required. Simply loosen the pinch bolts on the right side and torque the axel bolt. Tighten the right side pinch bolts. Loosen the left side pinch bolts and do the front brake and pump the forks alignment procedure then tighten the left fork pinch bolts.

I hope this clears up this long running "mystery".

Cracker

[Chrisj CMA]

Thanks Cracker Jack.......makes perfect sense and I learned something......see im not that old!  I just did the procedure on my bike.....didnt look like anything changed but Its just good to understand what you are doing and why. 

BTW I think it added a couple horspower 

[Ricky-D]

That everything tightens up to the right hand shock is true and accurate.

I however do not go thru all that rigamarole tightening sequence.

How simple it is to use a hex allen wrench on the axle and a box wrench on the nut. If you cannot find an allen wrench big enough, remember that the spark plug wrench in the tool kit is the correct fit for the front axle.

Placing the left shock in the correct position is the final step as mentioned previously.

What's the big deal?

***

[RP#62]

When I say that "seated" is a misnomer, here's what I mean.  If you look at the first picture, this is the axle bore in the lower left fork.  As you can see, there is nothing that limits how far you can push the axle in.



In the pic below, I've pushed the axle in far enough so that the shoulder on the axle is all the way through.  I could keep pushing it until it until the axle goes all the way through and the shoulder hits the other fork.  It doesn't seat on anything.  Whatever position you've left it when you tighten the pinch bolts  is where the wheel is going to be.  The wheel seats against the shoulder on the axle, but the axle is where ever you put it.  If you didn't happen to push it in far enough, or if you pushed it in too far, the brake disks are not going to be centered in the calipers when you tighten the axle bolt and they're going to rub on caliper attach bolts on one side or the other.  I think we're saying the same thing, its just semantics.  To me when someone says "seated", that means its seated against something.  To me anyway, you're not seating the axle, you're properly positioning it.
-RP

[salty1]

Great post Cracker Jack and thanks for the pics RP.

[Quicksilver]

Great practical info, Thanks!

[f6john]

   All good info but are we still getting a clicking sound????

[Gavin_Sons]

It is taken care of. No more clicking. Thanks for all the info.

[YoungPUP]

How did you fix it?? What was it?

[Gavin_Sons]

Im guessing its the way I had the front wheel aligned. loosened all the bolts torqued axel nut then brake side pinch bolts. Lowered the bike, bounced the front end and torqued the cluch side pinch bolts. Works perfect now. The inside pad on the brake side was catching the rotor. It would lift it with whatever play the pad had and click back down into orginal position. Still need to pull the calipers and give them a good cleaning. Now im looking for a new u joint but cant seem to find one. Since my darkside conversion im feeling alot more play in the drive line.