Chatter from 3rd to 4th gear

[pacowboy78]

This may or may not have been covered.  I've been reading the forum for quite a while but haven't seen this exactly anywhere.  Also, just joined, so be kind.  I bought a used 99 tourer a few months back and, knowing it needed some work, immediately changed the engine oil and final drive gear oil.  Since I purchased the bike, I usually get some chatter between 3rd gear and 4th gear as I'm shifting.  If I hit the RPM's just right, I can avoid it.  This weekend I'm replacing the rear shocks, so I figured I'd check the U-Joint and lube the splines on the shaft as well.  Additionally, after riding, when I put the bike in neutral, there is a slight rumble, I'm assuming from the transmission.  Being new to the Valk (I had a GL1800 and a Vstar 1300 before), I defer to your expert opinions on this one.  Thanks for the help.

[Chrisj CMA]

I assume you meant a rumble in neutral WHEN THE CLUTCH IS OUT...then its quiet when you pull the clutch in....that part is normal

I dont know about the clatter between 4th and 5th gear.  Id say start with checking the bushing in the clutch handle....if thats worn you will not get as much clutch action as you should......if thats no help, try changing the fluid and bleeding the system....sometimes a tiny bit of air in the clutch lines causes big problems so be careful here

And the last thing......shifts on the Valk are easier at higher rpms.  Dont be shy to get up there 3-5K is a normal shift.......2k is always harder, clunky but either way you must be assertive when you shift.....

Other than that I have never heard of a Valkyrie transmission causing what you are experiencing

Hope this helps

[Patrick]

  I don't remember hearing of your problem.. A chatter between 3 and 4 ?? How does this chatter occur ?? I'm going to assume you mean it happens when letting out the clutch lever after the up shift ?? And this is the only time it occurs ??  When releasing the lever upon start out in first gear does it engage smoothly ??  Actually,, I should ask what you mean by 'chatter'.. It may mean something different to different folks..
  Like said,, if the transmitter is in neutral with the lever released then a 'rumble' is normal..

[pacowboy78]

  I don't remember hearing of your problem.. A chatter between 3 and 4 ?? How does this chatter occur ?? I'm going to assume you mean it happens when letting out the clutch lever after the up shift ?? And this is the only time it occurs ??  When releasing the lever upon start out in first gear does it engage smoothly ??  Actually,, I should ask what you mean by 'chatter'.. It may mean something different to different folks..
  Like said,, if the transmitter is in neutral with the lever released then a 'rumble' is normal..

By "chatter" I mean I get feedback and a slight grind directly into the shift pedal while trying to upshift into 4th from third.  It's almost like not giving enough clutch while shifting a car.  I assumed the rumble was normal but wanted to be sure.  Every other gear gives me a smooth shift up and down.  The only other issue I have is an intermittant problem with the neutral light and once in a great while trouble hitting neutral, but no more so than I had on my GL1800.

[Patrick]

Ah, Ok, you're getting some 'gear clash' rather than clutch chatter.. Or, at least, thats my take on your problem.. Where does the lever seem to engage/dis-engage ?? It should be near the end of the travel limit[ lever almost all the way out].. If it is, then, maybe you just need to get used to this monster.. Shift with authority,, don't baby it,, but,, don't abuse it either..

[pacowboy78]

Gear clash is a much better description than what I had.  Though I've never run a Valk before, I'm pretty seasoned on larger bikes.  I'm running Rotella 5w40 in it now, and that helped smooth it out after I first got it (new to me for 6 months now).  I just don't want to keep running it this way and do further damage.  So check clutch fluid and lever adjustment and call it even then is what I'm seeing so far?
Thanks a ton.

[Chrisj CMA]

Gear clash is a much better description than what I had.  Though I've never run a Valk before, I'm pretty seasoned on larger bikes.  I'm running Rotella 5w40 in it now, and that helped smooth it out after I first got it (new to me for 6 months now).  I just don't want to keep running it this way and do further damage.  So check clutch fluid and lever adjustment and call it even then is what I'm seeing so far?
Thanks a ton.

Not really lever adjustment.  Remove the lever and remove the brass bushing, clean it off and look at it carefully.  If the holes look worn and wallowed out replace it...IT MATTERS

[sugerbear]

shift more positive. don't be kind, it isn't delicate. 

[PatrickDoss]

Every GL1500 (and 1800) I've ever ridden has had the gear clash on the 3-4 shift.  It's something about the way I (and you, apparently) shift.  If it's not mine, the owner doesn't experience it.  If I let someone else ride mine, they don't experience it.  It's like you said, sometimes you can avoid it, but most of the time it does it.  Try pre-loading the shifter by lifting up just enough to take the slack out before you pull in the clutch.  You'll probably find as the weather turns cooler, it gets better, too.  I've tried almost every oil available, and while none eliminate it, synthetics ease it a bit.  I've got almost 100K on my Wing, and I bought her with less than 9K.  I'm sure someday I'll have to rebuild the transmission.  But not yet.

[Chrisj CMA]

Every GL1500 (and 1800) I've ever ridden has had the gear clash on the 3-4 shift.  It's something about the way I (and you, apparently) shift.  If it's not mine, the owner doesn't experience it.  If I let someone else ride mine, they don't experience it.  It's like you said, sometimes you can avoid it, but most of the time it does it.  Try pre-loading the shifter by lifting up just enough to take the slack out before you pull in the clutch.  You'll probably find as the weather turns cooler, it gets better, too.  I've tried almost every oil available, and while none eliminate it, synthetics ease it a bit.  I've got almost 100K on my Wing, and I bought her with less than 9K.  I'm sure someday I'll have to rebuild the transmission.  But not yet.

I cant imagine what you could do to cause gear clashing that others would not experience on the same machine.  EXCEPT this:

--First if you shift at low RPMs under 2,000-2500 or so it will be more harsh than if you learn to up shift between 3000-5000 RPMs

--Second, the shift itself.  I ride with lots of folks and ever since something bad happened due to a rider not knowing how to ride I WATCH closely others riding habits.  I have learned and the proof is almost every time I get with a group there is a couple that does this horribly...and that is when shifting into the higher gears, you are moving at higher speed.  In a group ride speed control is important and neglected as a rider skill. So in 4th or  5th if you go to shift and you let off ALL the throttle and then pull the clutch in and dont shift FAST, you are slowing down rapidly and very soon you wont be in the proper speed range for the next gear (especially if you start the process at too low an rpm).

To refine this technique all you have to do is practice get some rpms, then(instead of releasing or closing the throttle completely) just roll your throttle hand forward a tick...I mean just a tiny bit at the instant you pull the clutch and shift ALL AT ALMOST THE SAME TIME...throttle, clutch, shift...back on the  throttle.  If done correctly you can hardly tell you just shifted.......no more rocking back and forth.  If you are two up the passenger will appreciate not being jerked around....and you will only lose a couple MPH.....important when riding with others, and that is my motivation for telling this story.....I dont care how rough your shifts are, or how much you jerk the bike for upshifting slowly and below the speed range for the next gear....I just hate having to slow up everytime a poor shifter in front of me trys to get into the next gear........

its all in the PRACTICE

[BonS]

These days I find my smoothest shifts into 4th and 5th are without using the clutch. Rolling off the throttle and some shifter pressure smoothly snicks it into the next gear without lurching or clashing. It does take a bit of experimenting to find the right combo but, for me, it has become my preferred technique.

[Chrisj CMA]

These days I find my smoothest shifts into 4th and 5th are without using the clutch. Rolling off the throttle and some shifter pressure smoothly snicks it into the next gear without lurching or clashing. It does take a bit of experimenting to find the right combo but, for me, it has become my preferred technique.

Yes, clutchless shifting has been batted around in here till each side is blue in the face.....some say its ok, some believe its bad for the transmission......hey, if you like it, its your bike......good on ya.........I think Ill continue using the clutch, but taking care to shift at the right speed and rpm so the gears mesh smoothly and theres no load on the clutch.....probably right where you are power shifting

[BonS]

I understand that it's not for everybody. No problem. I know what power shifting is as I've done it many times in drag racing but, of course, that's nothing that I would do as an every day maneuver. Rather, for everyday clutchless shifting, when done right, it's at a zero energy, or neutral, difference point that is as near stressless on the shift dogs, gear teeth and clutch pack as can be sensed. Driveline shock is absent and noiseless. (Oh, and I also run CT's    )

[pacowboy78]

I've only run this bike for a 1500 or 2000 miles and it had 37000 or so when I got it.  As such, it is quite likely that every time I see or hear something I don't feel is usual, I'll coming running to you all.  I appreciate all of the feedback thus far.  Though I'm a newcomer to this Valk, (and compared to some of you, to riding in general), I've got 75k in riding in the last 6 years.  Love the bike, love that I can actually work on it in relative fearlessness (unlike my departed gl1800).  I've had it apart the past few days doing a desmog, progressive shocks, hitchdoc, clutch bleed and oil/air filter.  As soon as the pingle valve and filter and quick disconnect on the fuel line come in, and i get them installed, i'll report back. 

[John Schmidt]

As soon as the pingle valve and filter and quick disconnect on the fuel line come in, and i get them installed, i'll report back. 

Just be very observant when installing the above. Many riders have caused themselves problems by not having the fuel running downhill all the way, ending up with what appears to be starvation at speed. Even the slightest drop/low spot in the fuel delivery line will cause it, especially with a partial tank. Just be certain it's all flowing downhill with no kinks or low spots and you should be fine.

[pacowboy78]

As soon as the pingle valve and filter and quick disconnect on the fuel line come in, and i get them installed, i'll report back. 

Just be very observant when installing the above. Many riders have caused themselves problems by not having the fuel running downhill all the way, ending up with what appears to be starvation at speed. Even the slightest drop/low spot in the fuel delivery line will cause it, especially with a partial tank. Just be certain it's all flowing downhill with no kinks or low spots and you should be fine.

Thanks very much for the input.  New to me bikes always pose a challenge when "trying to do it better."

[pacowboy78]

Thanks to the help I received on the board, she's all back together.  New pingle, progressive 440's, clutch bled, desmog done, and the airbox installed and removed at least 386 times.  She runs far better than she has since I got her (February), I just need to replace a small section of fuel line that I mistakenly put on a 5/16 rather than 3/8.  Runs just fine until I get her wide open, so I'm figuring thats the only issue.  Thanks again to everyone.

[PhredValk]

In the city I routinely shift at 2000 RPM, smooth, no noise, just click and go. I get crunching when shifting when given 'er good! High RPMs, preload the shifter, full clutch and just a blip on the throttle. Believe it or not I've found neutral between 3 and 4, or 4 and 5 on occasion; and had the tranny drop down a gear once or twice. It's getting better as I get more practice, but there you are.
She's a funny ride, but I love this bike. I've beaten new Mustang GTs off the line, at multiple lights, fun times.
Fred.