|
Rio Wil
|
 |
« on: August 18, 2012, 09:48:25 PM » |
|
Its been a good tire, 60K miles, right at 24 months, survived the California freeways, wine country twisties, Alaska gravel roads, etc. Never a scary moment in terms of stability, installed one plug to fix a nail hole several thousand miles ago. My replacement tire is another P4 and has about 200 miles on it already. I have noticed in the last 10-15K miles, that steering has bee a bit heavy and after comparing the flat bottom of the old tire with the new one, it is obvious. For riding pleasure (lighter steering) I will likely replace this new one at about 40K-45K Over the life of the tire I have noticed no difference in left/right turning even with the3 asymmetrical tread design. Tire pressure was a constant 42 psi for the life of the tire. I did the spline maintenance at 15-30 and 45K with all spline components in perfect shape. At the 60K interval, I was shocked to see the drive shaft/pinion cup was almost completely chewed up.....the pinion/drive flange splines were perfect. What is more puzzling is there was still a sufficient amount of lube in the pinion cup and the oil holes are clear. I also notice that the oil holes are about half covered by the cup nut, I think when my new shaft and cup get here in a few days, that I will fit the nut and torque it down properly. Then mark the spots where the holes are, remove the nut and cut a small half moon relief that will not obstruct the oil holes at all. It also appears that one hole is a scooper hole and the other is a return hole. This is the second shaft and pinion cup replacement, the first was due to dry splines and my fault for not getting to the maintenance soon enough. I thought I would take it easy on my fingers, so I had the tire replaced at a little local tire shop, the replacement went well enough, but their balancer was dorked up, so I had to use a homemade spin balancer that will get it within 1/2 oz. Just insert the axle and lay it on the bearing pairs, allows the wheel bearing to spin as well as the smaller bearings to spin also. I am not a stickler for what weights are used.....flat 1 oz sinkers with scotch brand double sided tape works great, last a long time...         |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tundra
Member
Posts: 3882
2014 Valkyrie 1800
Seminole, Florida
|
|
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 07:07:27 AM » |
|
Wow, they are worn pretty good. Could you feel anything? Good thing you found it before it left you on the side of the road  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you can't be a good example: be a WARNING!!
|
|
|
|
Rio Wil
|
|
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 07:12:50 PM » |
|
That's what has got me puzzled......for the previous 3 intervals of 15K each, they have been perfect and all of a sudden this 15K interval they are toast. I did not feel or hear anything out of the ordinary so was no clue what was happening. I guess the lube that was in the joint was enough to keep the noise down but not enough to protect the splines.....just doesn't make sense! I put the old shaft and pinion in just to get me through a couple of weeks while the new parts arrive and can schedule time to install them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
LB
Member
Posts: 84
2003
Upstate South Carolina
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 05:19:35 PM » |
|
What lube did you use on the splines ?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
pancho
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 03:42:32 AM » |
|
WoW,,,my question also,, is that moly paste in there? That post was done before my time,, you still around Rio?
That was certainly a good long duration tire,, I'll keep that in mind.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 03:48:32 AM by pancho »
|
Logged
|
The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
|
|
|
LB
Member
Posts: 84
2003
Upstate South Carolina
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 12:23:34 PM » |
|
My bad … I just noticed the date on the post.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
pancho
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 01:29:14 PM » |
|
yeah,,, but I still wonder if he had moly paste in there.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
|
|
|
Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 02:06:31 PM » |
|
That's definitely a grease, not moly paste. Moly paste is a lighter-coloured grey. The service manual says to use 3% moly grease in that pinion cup connection, and regular grease at the U-joint splines. Not my pics, and not Valks; for moly paste colour reference:   |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
h13man
Member
Posts: 1748
To everything there is an exception.
Indiana NW Central Flatlands
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 07:34:06 AM » |
|
The top picture looks like Honda Molt 60 in color which is 60% moly where as the bottom picture looks definitely "thinner" in appearance like the 3% Loctite brand. Just an observation.
Also the Pirelli P4 used to come in two different mileage wear options. I run these on our Suzuki SX4 AWD and they are 70,000 mi. version.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 07:39:38 AM by h13man »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RWhitehouse
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 08:50:41 AM » |
|
So this spurred me to dig in and check the final drive splines on my '98 Tourer with currently about 42k on it. I got it at about 34k, put the ATT on at that time along with fresh gear oil, and haven't touched since. No idea if it'd ever been serviced beforehand.
Search box turned up a plethora of pictures, discussion, ect about the "pinion cup", grease vs paste lubrication, ect. Seems some bikes the splines are always sloppy wet with hypoid oil, which supposedly was Honda's intent and these splines would never need manual lubrication. But clearly that doesn't always work, why, who knows. Apparently at some point in the Valk's production Honda revised the service manual to recommend lubricating these every 16k miles, a sort of admission the "pump" (the two angled holes drilled in the pinion cup intended to "fan" oil mist into these splines) wasn't reliably lubricating these parts.
To confound things further, there were some photos/cases of people using the moly pastes, and still experiencing significant wear as the paste dries out much more readily than a grease.
Pulled mine apart and it'd clearly been greased by someone at some point. There was evidence of the red rust, but looks like grease was slapped over it and the splines were in excellent condition with zero notable wear on either the driven, drive, pinion cup, or driveshaft ends. One of the two "oil fans" in the pinion cup was totally plugged with crud. The other was mostly plugged. There was a lot of grease, but to my eye no hypoid oil in the cup. Removed the cup (very easy with my 1/2" electric impact) and thoroughly cleaned it out.
Went with Daniel Meyer's advice to use standard wheel bearing grease on all parts and skip the pastes, being careful to not over-grease the pinion cup splines so as to possibly plug up those holes when the driveshaft is pushed in. A light smear on both faces. Also took his advice to use a strap to pull the swingarm up all the way to help line up the driveshaft with the u-joint. As said, insert, jiggle and push around, and it slipped in pretty quickly.
Did discover the left side wheel bearing was on it's way out while the wheel was off. Right side felt perfect. Been an absolute bear to get out. Spacer doesn't move over enough to get a solid hit with a drift, and there's no purchase to get a pilot puller in there. Going to try the concrete anchor trick next.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 12:58:16 PM » |
|
Going to try the concrete anchor trick next.
 I don't know anything about that trick, but it sounds as extreme as using a model rocket to pull a loose tooth! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPhRiaNW4UQ |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RWhitehouse
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 12:44:04 PM » |
|
Found it digging through the search box, and it worked like magic.
Get a 3/4" concrete wedge anchor, was like $4 at home depot. It's the perfect size, a couple light taps pushes the expanding clip into the I.D. Flip the wheel around, put the drift on the flat/back side of the wedge, and let loose. The impacts drive the wedge into the clip, forcing it to grip the I.D firmly. 3-4 solid hits and the bearing flew out with the anchor. Best of all you can re-use the anchor- just tap the bearing forward off the wedge and squash the clip back down with some channellocks.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 06:16:22 AM » |
|
Found it digging through the search box, and it worked like magic.
Get a 3/4" concrete wedge anchor, was like $4 at home depot. It's the perfect size, a couple light taps pushes the expanding clip into the I.D. Flip the wheel around, put the drift on the flat/back side of the wedge, and let loose. The impacts drive the wedge into the clip, forcing it to grip the I.D firmly. 3-4 solid hits and the bearing flew out with the anchor. Best of all you can re-use the anchor- just tap the bearing forward off the wedge and squash the clip back down with some channellocks.
Someone came up with a clever idea, and I'm glad you found/remembered it! I hope that idea jingles in my head the next time I might need it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
pancho
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 08:15:34 AM » |
|
Ha, that is one to store away for the right time..... good find
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
|
|
|
|
recman25
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 12:44:27 PM » |
|
I'm a newbie as far as these bikes go, but I'm curious if anyone has thought that the damage may be a result of having a car tire mounted. The extra friction and drag may have caused it to fail. Unless the guy is doing burnouts, with regular maintenace there has to be something causing it. Just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dan
1999 Valkyrie Interstate
Tucson, AZ formerly Jersey Shore
|
|
|
Valker
Member
Posts: 2995
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
|
|
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 01:19:55 PM » |
|
I'm a newbie as far as these bikes go, but I'm curious if anyone has thought that the damage may be a result of having a car tire mounted. The extra friction and drag may have caused it to fail. Unless the guy is doing burnouts, with regular maintenace there has to be something causing it. Just a thought.
My only shaft/cup failure has been during the time I only ran bike tires. In the 120,000+ miles of car tire use, never a wear issue. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
|
|
|
|
Hra729
|
|
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2019, 03:15:33 PM » |
|
I used to work at a Honda dealer when I first bought mine. I noticed a horrible sound and vibration when I decelerated. My shop foreman said it was either bearings or those splines. Fortunately in my case it was the bearings but he told me that that splines were a weak spot for the Valkyries. The will fail for no apparent reason. It likely had nothing to do with your tires. Sorry I know this is likely an older thread
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Valkorado
Member
Posts: 10491
VRCC DS 0242
Gunnison, Colorado (7,703') Here there be twisties.
|
|
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2019, 03:42:15 PM » |
|
he told me that that splines were a weak spot for the Valkyries. The will fail for no apparent reason.
I really don't think this is the case. If the splines are properly maintained per the manual and the procedure is followed step by step, the splines could potentially last for the life of the bike - - or the rider! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Have you ever noticed when you're feeling really good, there's always a pigeon that'll come sh!t on your hood? - John Prine 97 Tourer "Silver Bullet" 01 Interstate "Ruby"  |
|
|
|
98valk
|
|
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2019, 03:42:51 PM » |
|
That's definitely a grease, not moly paste. Moly paste is a lighter-coloured grey. The service manual says to use 3% moly grease in that pinion cup connection, and regular grease at the U-joint splines. Not my pics, and not Valks; for moly paste colour reference: depends on manufacturer, not good to make a general statement like that. The TS-70 moly paste I use is a very dark grey. moly itself is a dark gray mineral. Grease is oil held in suspension using different carriers. the oil is the lubricant which very slowly comes out of the carriers to lubricate. paste has much less oil. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
|
|
|
|
rug_burn
|
|
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2019, 09:28:08 AM » |
|
That is some major miles on that thing. You just gotta get used to the way it handles I guess, but it's probably not too much worse than a regular tire worn flat in the middle. Might not be too good if you do a lot of hard cornering, since the corners of the tread will wear out first, but at least it'll be round, and probably last longer than a regular bike tire, anyway. I can see why these guys run them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
...insert hip saying here..
|
|
|
h13man
Member
Posts: 1748
To everything there is an exception.
Indiana NW Central Flatlands
|
|
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2019, 07:57:30 PM » |
|
he told me that that splines were a weak spot for the Valkyries. The will fail for no apparent reason.
I really don't think this is the case. If the splines are properly maintained per the manual and the procedure is followed step by step, the splines could potentially last for the life of the bike - - or the rider! Totally agree. I'm fortunate to have a tube of Honda Moly 60 so far that is if I don't quit using it for other purpose's. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:01:17 PM by h13man »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
