hard to shift

[valku2]

`99 Valk with almost 84K.  Gets ridden regularly late February or early March thru Thanksgiving each year.   I am the original owner.  Last bi-annual or 12K maintenance was done approximately 6 weeks ago at dealership.  Starting last night, once the engine gets warm she is hard to shift.  Rode her to and from work today (less than 10 miles), same deal.  Changed out clutch handle, screw and nut, bushing and plunger to master cylinder and the clutch switch, all to no avail.  Drained engine oil and refilled.  When engine is hot, it is nearly impossible to find neutral.  Shut off engine, goes right into neutral.  WTH is this old brain missing?  TIA as always.  JimC

[Daniel Meyer]

Where in the travel of the clutch handle does the clutch disengage? If it's pulled very far in you probably need to bleed the clutch.

[valku2]

Thanks for your input Daniel.  I tried bleeding a couple times.  All the air is out, the clutch master cylinder is full.  Not leaking anyplace.  Still creeps forward at idle and in gear with clutch pulled in.  Still won't shift with engine running but will shift when engine is not running.  Must be warped clutch plates per the Honda Repair Bible.  Great. 

[Rio Wil]

Just to ask and be clear about this:

Where in the travel of the clutch handle does the clutch disengage

Is it right up next to the grip or way out at the beginning of the lever travel?

[Ricky-D]

Thanks for your input Daniel.  I tried bleeding a couple times.  All the air is out, the clutch master cylinder is full.  Not leaking anyplace.  Still creeps forward at idle and in gear with clutch pulled in.  Still won't shift with engine running but will shift when engine is not running.  Must be warped clutch plates per the Honda Repair Bible.  Great. 

If you bled the clutch properly then I agree with you.

Need a new clutch.

***

[Patrick]

One thing I've noticed over the years is that people do not like to answer questions.. If we knew where the clutch engaged/disengaged then it would help with the answer.. Also, does it engage smoothly ??  I think I would suggest re-bleeding the system..

[valku2]

Sorry for not getting back sooner.  It disengages close to the grip. 

[Patrick]

These clutches don't engage/disengage close to the grip.. Normally, The lever is almost fully released.. I think a bleeding is in order.. I also suppose there may be too much fluid in the master,, but,, thats kinda hard to do.. Stranger things have happened though.. I won't ask again about the smoothness of the release..

[Rio Wil]

IMHO.....not bled properly or clutch rivets went south.  Out of curiosity, is this the first time the bike has been used since the dealer did the maintenance, you said it is ridden regularly, but had you ridden the bike enough to heat up the engine prior to this...

[valku2]

It seems smooth in neutral.  And choppy when taking off in first gear, but not going thru the gears.  It does not slip at high rpm's either.  I have ridden it over 500 miles since the dealer worked on it.  Longest ride in one spell was 120 consecutive miles. 

[Patrick]

Try bleeding it again..  Its easy,, squeeze, open, close, release.. Repeat..
The clutch not engaging smoothly is not a good sign,, its usually the sign of some sheared rivets..

[valku2]

I've bled till I can't bleed no more.  I looked at the clutch cover a bit ago. There is a lot of gunk (not road dirt) at the base of and around the slave cylinder.   A local mechanic of many years believes that is the culprit. The Bible says nothing of the slave cylinder being suspect unless that falls into the sticking hydraulic system category.  And pardon my stupidity, but on what piece in the fiche are the rivets?

[Disco]

Some good reading and pictures about clutch problems here.  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20870.0.html

[Roadog]

  Valk 2,  I think you have a clutch plate/rivet issue.  You can shift without the clutch after you are moving .  This can help you get it home in emergency.  Canot tell you how many times over the years I have ridden my Suzuki GS's home without the clutch after the clutch cable snapped.  Just close throttle and up shift same time and it will shift just fine, you can down shift too just not as smooth .  It's alittle abrupt but it will do it.  Let us know what you findout about your clutch, we are all still learning.  Terry

[valku2]

I'm banking on warped clutch plates.  Going under the knife next week, the 5th of Sept.  I'll come back with an update once she's been released from the hospital.  Disco, your link with the pics is excellent.  I must've missed it previously. Thanks again to everyone.   Ride safely this Holiday weekend.

[Rio Wil]

Try this......run 4000rpm in 4th gear. Roll on the throttle hard and quickly blip the clutch in, the rpm should jump to about 6000-6500 rpm and if the clutch pack is in good shape, the rpm should quickly pull back down to about 4500. If it stays up, the clutch pack is likely bad, if it pulls back down to 4500 or so in a second or so, then its likely hydraulic.  I have however, on occasion seen the rpm stay up (slipping occurring) due to 20-50 weight oil.......

[Disco]

Disco, your link with the pics is excellent. 

Hope it helped/helps.   

Valkpilot deserves the credit for the write-up and pics.  I was merely an assistant.

[Ricky-D]

I don't think the problem is with the rivets.

Usually a characteristic of rivet problems is the clutch lever does not allow to be fully depressed to the handlebars.

Warped clutch plates explain the problem very accurately.

However, in either case the clutch must be removed.

Seeing the possibilities should cause a positive assurance that the bleeding was performed correctly and is 100% correct.

***

[valku2]

The beast was released from the hospital yesterday.  The shop saved all my parts to show the failure. Three rivets had come away from the clutch plate, looking hauntingly familiar to the pics posted by Valk Pilot.  See Disco’s link posted above at: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20870.0.html
 Plus the friction disk B had a groove approximately 1/16” wide all the way around one side of it.  I rode her the long way home from the shop (70 miles vs. 45 miles) without incident. Time to get back out there for another 80 plus thousand miles!

[old2soon]

The beast was released from the hospital yesterday.  The shop saved all my parts to show the failure. Three rivets had come away from the clutch plate, looking hauntingly familiar to the pics posted by Valk Pilot.  See Disco’s link posted above at: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20870.0.html
 Plus the friction disk B had a groove approximately 1/16” wide all the way around one side of it.  I rode her the long way home from the shop (70 miles vs. 45 miles) without incident. Time to get back out there for another 80 plus thousand miles!

   Have you or the shop determined the CAUSE of your clutch failure??? Inquiring minds are mucho curious.  Did they even HINT at what caused the failure??  T I A. RIDE SAFE.

[Davemn]

If I may ask, what does it cost to replace the clutch?