Joe Rocket Phoenix 2.0 Mesh pants.

[..]

Joe Rocket Phoenix 2.0 Mesh pants.

The box arrives and I think this feels heavy. Hope I got the right order.

Yep all that’s in it is the pants I ordered. That should have given me my first clue about them.
I unpack them and hold them up in my right hand and for comparison I hold my Draggin Jeans up in my left hand. These Joe Rocket mesh pants are heavier.

OK now to try them on. Yep, they fit OK around the waist but I’ll use a pair of Sidewinder suspenders for a bit more support because the waistband doesn’t feel very grippy.

http://www.amazon.com/Bucket-Boss-61103-Sidewinder-Suspenders/dp/B000022448
I look down at the pant legs and W.T.F. They are as baggy as a gorilla suit I rented 31 years ago. Maybe I don’t have them zipped up correctly. Nope they are all zippered as should be.

The cuff measure 14 inches across, Draggin Jeans 9inches. Oh well, maybe this is part of the design of mesh pants. Baggy to allow air flow?

I take the mesh pants off and turn them inside out. W.T.F There are 2 layers of mesh material. A thinner inner layer so that armor pockets can be created and a thicker outer layer. This results in them being thicker than the area with Kevlar in the Draggin Jeans.

Even standing still I can feel the heat on my legs from the pants. I’m wearing shorts under them. Oh well, maybe they will let the air flow once I’m on my ST scything through the air.

The following day I’m off to join some riders for a ride up to NE GA and other points on the compass.
Mesh pants on over shorts. Long over the calf mixed blend socks and a pair of heavy over the ankle leather boots. The socks and boots are ones I always wear.

I’ve adjusted the knee armor so that it feels reasonably as if it’s in the correct position whilst I’m sitting on the bike.
Out of the garage and away I go. It’s 68F outside and the first few miles I have to ride are at 35 to 45 mph. I can feel the cool air coming through my First Gear jacket but not through the Joe Rocket pants (had to buy Joe Rocket to get the fat bastard size I needed). I’m sure this is due to the superior aerodynamics of the ST fairing.
Onto the freeway and now at 70 mph I still can’t feel any air coming through the mesh pants. I stick a knee out into the breeze and yep now I can feel the air.

All day I had to put my knees at right angles to the bike to feel any benefit from the mesh pants. THEY ARE HOTTER THAN DRAGGIN JEANS.

My right calf got roasted from the engine heat which OF COURSE passed easily through the mesh construction. My right leg felt hotter than when I rode west to east across Kansa on a 100F + day.
The waist band area is padded and that retains heat. The knee armor pockets allow the armor to flop around like a landed fish.

What a terrible, ineffectual design.

These are being returned and I'll buy another pair of Draggin Jeans.

[Jess from VA]

I spent many years riding in old jeans and tshirt, and have tried to do a little better wearing gear.  I got a pair of FirstGear mesh pants similar to yours.  In keeping with likely demand, almost all mesh pants are black, but this is a terrible choice for hot weather.  I cannot take the floppy armor, so I pull it out.  Mesh pants and jackets are too cold on crisp mornings leaving early, so you have to wear different gear or wear stuff underneath, then take it off or change as it heats up (storage issue).  

The mesh pants lining is perforated, but in combination with the nylon outer mesh, the pants were way too hot to wear; cooking hot in direct sunlight (except maybe at a constant 70 on the freeway, which is not where I like to spend my day riding).  So I turned the pants inside out and cut the internal lining out, leaving only a pair of lining shorts a couple inches below the crotch.  This exposed my legs to all the internal sewed seams and rubbed me raw, especially around the knees.  And, with only 'naked' mesh from the thigh down, engine heat to my legs was instant as soon as I stop or go slow.  I have the pants at the cleaners/tailor now to have some soft material sewn over the internal sharp seams at the knees, but I really have no confidence I can ever use these for anything other than a combat freeway ride for distance in the heat.  

This is not bike gear, and not armored in any way, but my preferred riding pants in hot weather.  They do have double knees, the side elastic lets us guys with a generous middle go a size down so the legs arent so wide, loose and lots of pockets with velcro not buttons. (In Brit tan and gunmetal)

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat21082-cat601776_TGP&id=0005222900037a&navCount=5&podId=0005222&parentId=cat601776&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=QZ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true

[Big IV]

I've seen a brand that offered a similiar Kevlar lined pant but in slacks. Probably not as good for the long trip, but to work and back would be nicer.
I've got leather over pants for when it gets cold or predictably wet. Otherwise, my draggin jeans are the best that I have in protection and comfort.
Have yet to let a friend drag me behind their truck to see how that works...maybe another time.

[BOZ]

These ain't cheap, but they offer excellent protection and are very cool when riding.
http://www.motoport.com/_product_35442/Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Pant

[..]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for giving us your feedback on the Phoenix pants. It’s always helpful to know how riders use our products. As is the case with your pant customers often use the garments in ways that were not intended. These unintended uses lead us to design gear that closer to what the rider specifically wants.

 

The Phoenix pant is an over pant. It has a large side zipper so it is easy to slip over a pair of jeans and when wearing boots. The Phoenix pant is the first (that I know of) over pant made from such a material. At the time of development riders could choose from leather pants or waterproof, armored textile pants. Many, like me chose the textile pants due to comfort however they were very hot. I decided to take our popular Ballistic pant and make it from mesh. These are still my favorite riding pants. The pant has reinforced knee, hip & seat area, knee armor and hip padding. They were designed to wear over jeans and offer comfortable protection. As compared to the solid waterproof pants available they are very comfortable.

 

Cotton is an excellent insulator. On some pants we affix a heavy cotton/canvas panel to the inside leg so the custom V-twin riders don’t melt the pant to the custom exhaust. With our previous Steel Jeans we added a cotton section between the steel/nylon panel to keep heat away from the rider in a crash. We also do this with our new Kevlar reinforced Rocket jeans. As you mention, the longitudinal mounting of your ST1300 V-4 results in a huge amount of heat on your lower legs. To accent this issue the Phoenix pant has protective knee armor and protective nylon sections at the knee. The mesh does not insulate the engine heat and the armor reduced wind flow. I am surprised Honda has never addressed the heat issue. With all of this in mind the jeans would be more comfortable. The Kevlar panels in your dragging jeans are an aramid fiber that is similar to Nomax. The jeans have excellent heat insulation in front of the knee where your ST1300 is hottest.

 

From my side I defend the Phoenix pant as working as it was designed. If you are to compare the Phoenix with other textile over pants I think you will find the Phoenix very comfortable. If you were to crash wearing a Phoenix pant over jeans, as it was intended, then I’m sure you would be in better shape then a crash wearing denim & a few mm of Kevlar. Kevlar has good insulating & abrasion resistance however try on your Draggin’ Jeans and then bounce your helmet off of you knee a few times. Now try the same exercise with a Phoenix pant. This should be enough to show the vast protection differences in these two products.   

 

We offer a reinforced jean with a removable knee pad. This is about the minimal that I would consider protective riding gear. Draggin jeans make some fine products. I think there Kevlar shirt is a good value. I just don’t think it is reasonable to compare Draggin Jeans & a Phoenix pant. That is like comparing running shoes & riding boots. Please try the Phoenix pants over a pair of jeans before you box them up.

 

marc bay

product manager

Joe Rocket

[Big IV]

pants is always plural unless they are offering a pant (harkens back to pantaloons) that are not connected to the other pant in the crotch area. When they joined the legs and covered the crotch they became pants.

Interesting, that he responded, at length at that. Most companies give scant responses if at all anymore.

Overpants are going to be baggier than jeans, and need a different sizing at times to accomodate for the fitting over something else. Understandable. Although not so much addressed directly in his response.

I don't understand his second paragraph where he explains that this type of pants is hot and uncomfortable so they created these to be worn over other pants..doesn't that just make them hotter?

Interesting.

[..]

If I had worn regular jeans under the mesh pants my legs would have melted away to the bone. 

[Big IV]

Were they advertised for summer or spring/fall wearing?
Sounds nice when the winter breezes back into town.

[..]

"Primarily for hot weather use"

http://www.newenough.com/protective_apparel/mesh_jackets_and_pants/joe_rocket/phoenix_2_mesh_motorcycle_overpants.html

New Enough is sending me a retunr label so I don't incur shipping charges. This is the first time I've had to return anything to New Enough.

I have bought 3 mesh jackets, one winter jacket and a pair of winter pants from them.

[Big IV]

I'm still surprised the company responded as lenghtily as it did.
Glad they're letting you reconcile without shipping charges.
Better luck next pair...of whatever you find.

[..]

I'm still surprised the company responded as lenghtily as it did.
Glad they're letting you reconcile without shipping charges.
Better luck next pair...of whatever you find.

The long reply was from the manufacturer. The return is fromthe distributor.

[hubcapsc]

" This is the first time I've had to return anything to New Enough.

I have bought 3 mesh jackets, one winter jacket and a pair of winter pants from them.

When I've bought stuff from them, it has arrived the very next day... I think their
main warehouse must be in Seneca... 

-Mike

[Rocketman]

I've had a pair (I think they're Joe Rocket, but definitely the mesh style- I'll check the brand later- EDIT: Yes, they're Joe Rocket) for several years now, and have been very pleased with the thermal.  When riding to work, I wear slacks/dress pants, with the mesh over.  When going on a road trip, I wear shorts with the mesh over.  I do wear cowboy boots as well, so my lower calfs (next to the heads) are extra protected from heat.  The cuffs on mine have an extra velcro closure to make them pull tight around the ankle.  The waist is definitely not as "grabby".  My riding jacket has a zipper to mate to it, so that they can't slip down on me when walking.  If I walk even a short distance without that zipped up, I'm hitching up my pants.  With them attached, it works very well.

The parts I haven't liked is the zippers/stitching.  The fly stitching came loose very early on.  The fly zipper started to fail not long after that.  One of the leg zippers is on its last legs as of last week.

Bottom line for me:
I like the design concept.  The execution leaves a little to be desired.  I'll get a new pair of mesh pants soon, but probably not the same brand.

Mark

[..]

Hi Paul,


Thanks again for the product comments & suggestions. The pant is baggy because it is an over pant. It fits over jeans. I agree that it is baggy and prefer my riding gear to be snug. It is notable that we receive an equal number of complaints that our pants are too tight as we do about them being loose.

We will stick with the additional mesh liner. The inner liner is more comfortable than the outer mesh shell. I may look into some wicking materials for that inner liner.

I don’t have a plan to add heat resistant panels to our summer riding pants. We may look at adding melt resistant panels though that is so they don’t melt to the exhaust pipes. As far as adding heat barriers we would need to make these garments too bike specific. A ST1300 is hot just below the knees. A GL1200 melts your socks. I’ll just stick to my in-line 4 Suzuki & in-line 3 Triumph and avoid the heat problem completely.

Perhaps we could get rich designing accessory heat shields for Hondas.

Feel free to contact us any time with your ride gear comments or questions.
 

marc bay

product manager

Joe Rocket

3235 Electricity Dr. Unit F

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

N8W 5J1

519 945 0645

Save a tree, please do not print this unless you need to.

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Hallsmith [mailto:britman453@hotmail.com]
Sent: June 8, 2009 1:08 PM
To: marc@joerocket.com
Subject: RE: Joe Rocket Phoenix 2.0 Mesh pants.

 

Marc,
 
Thanks for your reply.
 
I have a pair of Ballistic 7.0 pants for winter use - not that we get much winter here in the SE USA. They are great.
 
If I had worn a pair of jeans under the Joe Rocket Phoenix 2.0 Mesh pants I would have been close to overheating. The mesh felt like wearing chain mail. I don't understand why the pants are so baggy. 14 inches across the cuff compared to 9 inches for the Draggin Jeans. That's a lot more material flapping around and creating multiple folds restricting any air flow through the 2 layers of mesh.
 
My suggestion would be to get rid of the inner mesh layer and create pockets for the armor using the outer layer. Then have heat resistant panels along the inside of each leg from ankle to mid thigh. Maybe even not having a mesh outer in this area just the heat resistant panel sown to the mesh used for the rest of the leg.
 
All the best,
Paul