I definitely need help....UPDATED!

[pacowboy78]

1 Month without a decent ride.  Back in the end of July, I took apart my 99 Valk Tourer to add a hitchdoc hitch.  While apart, I removed the air filter and replaced it, now with a K&N.  I also did a desmog, serviced the clutch handle and bled the clutch.  I replaced fuel lines and put on a pingle.  Some of you may remember my other posts.  I have a terrible problem with her feeling like she's starving at about 3200 RPM's.  In trying to remedy that I checked and rechecked the fuel lines.  I removed the inline filter.  I checked all of the air intake tubes.  Still a problem.  I fouled  the plugs badly and two cylinders quit firing while I was trying a test ride.  I limped her home and replaced the plugs, checking for spark on all six cylinders.  They all check out.  I test rode again, all seemed well except for the pesky 3200 rpm starvation.  Unfortunately, I was out of time, so I put her in the garage.  That was three days ago.  Today, she won't even start.  (Yes I made sure the fuel was on.)  I can crank her all day long if I want, but no attempt to turn over at all.  I don't have the tool to check spark anymore (gave it back to the friend i borrowed it from).  I put a voltmeter on it and definitely got a spike from the two cylinders I checked.  I'm in serious need of help here guys and gals.  As much as I hate to do it, without a little wisdom I'll be bringing it to a mechanic before next week is out if I can't figure this out.  I'm in Towanda, PA if anyone knowledgeable is close enough by that they wouldn't mind enlightening the ignorant.

[Thunderbolt]

When you installed the K&N filter did you put the recommended amount of oil on the filter?  Is it possible that you have too much oil and it is running too rich?  When you say "I can crank it all day and it still not turn over" do you mean it will spin the engine over, but not fire up?  Have you charged the battery, if you have been attempting to crank it and the voltage has gotten down low, it will spin, but not fire the plugs any longer.  Charge the battery if you have not done so.  Try jumping carefully from a car or truck that is not running.  If you open the drain screws on the bottm of each carb, do you get fuel to drip out of the drain tube?
Just some things to think about.

[Chrisj CMA]

Not sure about the starvation......but sounds like a weal battery on top of the other troubles, try jumping to a known good battery, like the car.

[pacowboy78]

To answer the two questions.  Battery is fine.  When parked, it is on a tender 24/7 and the voltage/amperage it puts out is OK.  the K&N filter, though I cannot "guarantee" I used the proper amount of oil, I did check it and it feels ok.  For what its worth, I removed the filter and attempted to at least get it to start without the filter in the box and still no go.  To clarify, it will spin the engine over but not start up.  My frustration level is getting pretty high, so apologies in advance if I seem short or curt.  You all have been nothing short of phenomenal in trying to help me get to the root of my problems (created by me, I'm sure.  It ran just fine before I f'd with it.)  I've got a new OEM air filter on order, even though it's a complete shot in the dark.  I'm just guessing that everything may have started with that but I'll be cursed if I know for sure.  Just seems odd that it suddenly will not start.

[csj]

Just because the tender has been on the job, that does Not mean that the battery is Ok.
Have had bad battery myself, bike would spin but not start, connected a non-running car battery
to the bike battery, and finally it started.

You really should AT LEAST do the car battery in parallel, and remove that item from the list
of things to check.

[Thunderbolt]

Put a new set of plugs in when you get the new air filter installed.  Did you find that you had fuel to all the cylinders?  A kinked vent line would probably show up before 3200 rpm's but check it anyway, pull it down from the bottom, it exits on the kickstand.
I know what you mean about causing your own problems, very frustrating  especially if someone else made the comment.

[sugerbear]

yep. humor us, try jumping the batt to a non running car.

[pacowboy78]

Jumped her off a non running car battery, exact same result.  I also pulled the drain screws on all six carbs.  Nothing but fresh clean hi test runs out.  With it on the side stand more gas runs out the left side than the right, but I'm assuming that is to be expected with it leaning like that.  And for the record, since I've pretty obviously done this myself, I deserve any snickers and laughs that may be pointed in my direction.  Just go easy on me when you figure out that whatever it is should have never happened in the first place.  We'll just call it my "here's your sign" moment.

I forgot to mention in the first post:  She had Cobra Six into Six pipes on her when I got her.  Though they had been on there a while, I disliked the sound and acceleration.  The owner I bought her from didn't know if the carbs had been rejetted, so neither do I.  I bought a set of nearly new OEM pipes off ebay and installed them months prior to my current conundrum.  Still ran better and smoother than with the Cobra pipes.  I've also installed a new choke cable and new throttle cables over the course of the past 8 months in addition to a new ignition cutoff switch (the other was frozen in place).  I'm not completely mechanically stupid, just a little.

[Toledo Mark]

When you replaced the fuel line to you make it longer?  I once added a quick disconnect and the extra length created me from going over about 75mph.  

This is in reference to not getting over 3200 RPM.

[pacowboy78]

When you replaced the fuel line to you make it longer?  I once added a quick disconnect and the extra length created me from going over about 75mph.  

This is in reference to not getting over 3200 RPM.

I don't think so.  I cut to OEM lenght as best I could.  They had deteriorated.  The best part is that you can't buy the originals off the fuel rails anymore from Honda.  They send two generics that need to be cut to length.  It is possible that i screwed that up, but I've redone it half a dozen times.

[Gerard irl]

Hi Guys it might be no harme to ch the pulce sencor A fue guys in Europe
Have probs with this the best of luck

[shootist007]

Just a wild shot in the dark, does it have a dyna ignition module in it ? 

[R J]

I'll ask a stupid question here.

Are you using the choke?  If so are you sure it is full on?

My son tried to start MGM the other day, he had set all winter and this far into this year.   He came in the house and wanted to order this and that part cause he wouldn't start.

I walked out to the garage, shoved the choke on full and on about the 6th spin of the engine she sputtered.    Hit the starter again and she fired and run.   Told him to ride it around the big loop here by the house, square mile..    He came back and said, dad, I don't remember that big boy having that much poop in it pants when ya twist the throttle.

So, him being a motor and any other thing with an engine mechanic, he has been suffering from the digs.   LOL..

[dreamchaser]

I spent two very frustrating hours trying to get my bike started and found that I had it in gear    Then about a week later I had the same problem again, but it was in neutral.  Drove me nuts for about 20 minutes.  Then I noticed that the kill switch was in the wrong position.  It started right up.

What I'm trying to say is:  don't be too hard on yourself.  You aren't alone in missing or doing some little thing that can turn your face red.
 
It's probably something simple.

[pacowboy78]

I appreciate the sense of humor.  Choke is full on and the cut off switch is in the run position as well.  Trust me, I looked long and hard at those before I made any kind of post.  Thats just the kind of thing I'd normally do.  It looks like, as of now, I'm going to hold tight and wait for the oem air filter to come in.  After that, if all of the problems aren't magically dissipated, I'm screwed.  The only thing left for me to consider is that I f'd up the fuel line lengths coming off the T somehow.  Without a template to work from on those, I've got nothing to go by but trial and error.  So unless someone has an idea as to the exact length of those....  But thanks guys.  Did I mention the time I forgot to sidestand down at a gas station?   

[shooter64]

I am more of an old shade tree car mechanic than motorcycle mechanic. Trying to figure what I would do in your situation: I would spray starting fluid in the intake when the engine is turning over. If it fires and runs for only a second, then the problem is fuel related. It it does not hit a lick, then it is ignition related. That is usually the first problem to get past to figure out which direct to look into. ps Don't overdo the starting fluid. It can be bad for the engine if overdone. If the problem is fuel related it will start immediately, then cut right back off.

[Madmike]

If you are going to use ether to try a start my advice is be really careful what you do - easy way to break fire rings.

You can check to see if you have spark by either removing your plugs and then put them back into the wire, crank the engine over with the plug to a good ground and see if there is spark at the electrode.  Try it with one plug and see what happens.  If you do all 3 cylinders on one side this will verify all 3 coils.

If your new petcock is a manual one then you should be able to take the line off the bottom of the petcock and verify that you have fuel coming through the petcock and available to the carbs.

You most likely need the air filter to run, I have never tried it without a filter but some of teh European guys reported problems running without a filter (the European models have some carbs differences I believe).

Verify the things you need; fuel and air in a somewhat stoichiometric mixture compressed and then a spark too ignite it and you will be riding in no time.

[Ricky-D]

I test rode again, all seemed well except for the pesky 3200 rpm starvation

What makes you think it's starvation?

I suggest to check the carburetors for modifications.

Especially look at the needles and their placement.

***

[Davemn]

sidestand switch, tip over switch

[salty1]

Weird!  ???

[Davemn]

nevermind about the sidestand and tipover switch. The motor wont turn over if either has failed.

[pacowboy78]

Dave,  I thought about those too and did a quick check on the interwebs to see if that was true, just to make sure I didn't do something foolish and ruin one of them.  Mike, the reason I feel it's starvation is that it was fine before I did the desmog/fuel lines/air filter.  The carb may have been modified before I got it, but the bike was working just fine.  The air filter ships today UPS, so I'll have it in and run, weather permitting, by the end of the week.  As stated before though, if that doesn't make it, I'm at my wits end.

[salty1]

Recheck all the airbox connections to the carbs when you put in the OEM filter. Make sure nothing is askew. Did you plug the old PAIR valve port on the bottom of the airbox?

[pacowboy78]

So this would be one of those times when I feel like an absolute idiot.  Take out the k&n, replace with emgo OEM air filter.  Problems?  what problems?  Over a month, dozens of hours of labor, still more scouring the boards here, and at least 150 dollars in misc. parts, and it's the cursed replacement air filter.  I only put about ten miles on tonight, most of which was back roads, but she was still accelerating at 90.  I'm going to assume my starvation problem is fixed as well as any other issues.  So, in review, I'm an idiot, you all were a huge help, and I'm a little embarrassed.  THANK YOU.  Now to catch up on over a month of missed riding while the mornings have turned to sub 40 degrees.

[old2soon]

NOT trying to rub salt in an open wound and yes most of us have been there done that. Had an old crusty chief in the Navy tell me-just keep fixin it til ya break it!!  RIDE SAFE.

[Thunderbolt]

Congratulations, and thanks for giving us the update.  It always helps the next guy when we get good positive responses back. 

[shortleg]

 I think when you install a K&N filter you remove the gasket that is used on
the stock filter.. If you didnot remove it you were getting too
much air and not enough fuel.
  That may have been your problem.
  If you went back to stock filter.
      Shortleg[Dave]

[GOOSE]

shortleg i think hit the nail on the head here.

[pacowboy78]

I think when you install a K&N filter you remove the gasket that is used on
the stock filter.. If you didnot remove it you were getting too
much air and not enough fuel.
  That may have been your problem.
  If you went back to stock filter.
      Shortleg[Dave]

I actually removed the gaskets when I installed the K&N and in a rare act of intelligence, kept them in a baggy in my saddlebag.  I'm pretty sure I just had too much oil on the filter causing the issues now.

[markmathison]

I recently cleaned my K&N filter; replaced the tank, etc; but the bike would not start.  It turned out that the air vent hose (runs from the tank to, I think, the carbs) had come off of the carb end.  I had to take it to the dealer to figure it out. 

[pacowboy78]

Thousand mile update.  She's running great.  I just returned from a trip down through Virginia down the Skyline and Blue Ride Parkway pulling a trailer and had almost no issues.  I actually got somewhere in the 30-33 mpg range with the trailer behind me, even hauling down 81 at 75-80mph.  Three things did rear their heads though, and I'll spend my winter nailing them down.  First, even when she's in neutral, the light frequently does not come on, which is a real PIA.  Anyone ever come across that?  Second, the nuts holding the exhaust pipe to the headers keep loosening.  About 750 miles into the trip I noticed a ticking and sure as crap all 12 were loose.  They had been tightened to spec before leaving.  Third, I've gone from being able to choke her and hit the start switch to get her running to needing a twist of the throttle in addition.  Is that common?  Other than that, the progressive 440's made a huge difference over stock and I'm more pleased with my Valk than I was with my '08 GL1800, my 07 VStar 1300 (still my second fav. bike) or my 04 Shadow Aero.  I met a few Valk riders on the ride, and if anyone of them were you, I was the guy with the Penn State flag, thanks for being so cordial.

[JaysGone]

The only thing I can add that might help with the headers loosening up.
If you used just nuts with a washer and maybe added some blue loctite.
I added cap nuts on all 12 header bolts.
After tightening down the bolts at the 1K recheck I then added cap nuts.
Its now stayed as I left them 2K miles latter.

[hubcapsc]

Thousand mile update.  She's running great.  I just returned from a trip down through Virginia down the Skyline and Blue Ride Parkway pulling a trailer and had almost no issues.  I actually got somewhere in the 30-33 mpg range with the trailer behind me, even hauling down 81 at 75-80mph.  Three things did rear their heads though, and I'll spend my winter nailing them down.  First, even when she's in neutral, the light frequently does not come on, which is a real PIA.  Anyone ever come across that?  Second, the nuts holding the exhaust pipe to the headers keep loosening.  About 750 miles into the trip I noticed a ticking and sure as crap all 12 were loose.  They had been tightened to spec before leaving.  Third, I've gone from being able to choke her and hit the start switch to get her running to needing a twist of the throttle in addition.  Is that common?  Other than that, the progressive 440's made a huge difference over stock and I'm more pleased with my Valk than I was with my '08 GL1800, my 07 VStar 1300 (still my second fav. bike) or my 04 Shadow Aero.  I met a few Valk riders on the ride, and if anyone of them were you, I was the guy with the Penn State flag, thanks for being so cordial.

My neutral light comes on sometimes when the bike is not in neutral.

I haven't read all of this thread... the OEM gaskets (one in each header) are like hollow
copper rings... they need to be mashed down (retightened) several times, and then they
should settle down. Keep an eye on them, those nuts cost like they are made out of
gold. If you go too tight, the studs might break...

My bike usually starts in one button push, no throttle, full choke, when the bike has not
been ridden in a few days. If I've ridden the day before, I usually have to goose it to
start.

It has been very hard to type this message 



-Mike

[Hoser]

Don't worry about the quick twist of the throttle, mine has been like that for 109000 miles.  I have always used oem filters, change them about 25000 miles.  Glad your'e rolling again.  Hoser   

[Gryphon Rider]

Since new, I've always had to cold start with full choke and just a bit of throttle (1/8" open at the grip or less).

[doubletee]

Thousand mile update.  She's running great.  I just returned from a trip down through Virginia down the Skyline and Blue Ride Parkway pulling a trailer and had almost no issues.  I actually got somewhere in the 30-33 mpg range with the trailer behind me, even hauling down 81 at 75-80mph.  Three things did rear their heads though, and I'll spend my winter nailing them down.  First, even when she's in neutral, the light frequently does not come on, which is a real PIA.  Anyone ever come across that?  Second, the nuts holding the exhaust pipe to the headers keep loosening.  About 750 miles into the trip I noticed a ticking and sure as crap all 12 were loose.  They had been tightened to spec before leaving.  Third, I've gone from being able to choke her and hit the start switch to get her running to needing a twist of the throttle in addition.  Is that common?  Other than that, the progressive 440's made a huge difference over stock and I'm more pleased with my Valk than I was with my '08 GL1800, my 07 VStar 1300 (still my second fav. bike) or my 04 Shadow Aero.  I met a few Valk riders on the ride, and if anyone of them were you, I was the guy with the Penn State flag, thanks for being so cordial.

My neutral light comes on sometimes when the bike is not in neutral.

I haven't read all of this thread... the OEM gaskets (one in each header) are like hollow
copper rings... they need to be mashed down (retightened) several times, and then they
should settle down. Keep an eye on them, those nuts cost like they are made out of
gold. If you go too tight, the studs might break...

My bike usually starts in one button push, no throttle, full choke, when the bike has not
been ridden in a few days. If I've ridden the day before, I usually have to goose it to
start.

It has been very hard to type this message 



-Mike

No, Kitty. That's a bad kitty!  - Cartman